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Another GREAT propaganda By Haaretz against Pakistan

We are not against any side. We support peace endeavours on both sides.

Just like Arabs seek the same in Kashmir conflict.

Dont be naive. You think India didn't get the push from Zionists to make its move on Kashmir? And then GCC supporting India in its aftermath? It's all very coordinated move with the nerve center in Tel Aviv.

Learn from Russia, they settled their Ukraine issue by barging into ME , next to Isreal. This is how geopolitics works. Ruthless.

Balancing have taken you no where in protection of your interest. We are against no one, we just follow our own interests. Diplomacy is now based on conflicts and military power/interventions.
 
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Israel has not given up on its oppression of palestinians one bit. They have become more aggressive over the years. America has accepted jerusalem as capital and gradually others will too.

On the other hand they have patiently eroded muslim unity on the palestinian issue. Arabs were pacified and now comes Pakistan. How come Israel has not relented one inch from its postion and muslims are gradually giving up on palestinians.

We are a poor country. Haven't helped palestine much. One thing we have done right is to not recognize Israel. Its a principled stance in a world where principles are have been discarded on international stage.

Arabs are not examples to be followed. They will soon face results of their actions. We must not recognize israel and stand by palestinians. Any economic or technological benefit we can potentially get will bettered by our strength if we correct ourselves.
 
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Dont be naive. You think India didn't get the push from Zionists to make its move on Kashmir? And then GCC supporting India in its aftermath? It's all very coordinated move with the nerve center in Tel Aviv.

Learn from Russia, they settled their Ukraine issue by barging into ME , next to Isreal. This is how geopolitics works. Ruthless.

Balancing have taken you no where in protection of your interest. We are against no one, we just follow our own interests. Diplomacy is now based on conflicts and military power/interventions.

You have a point on Kashmir. There is no denying that Indian move in Kashmir has Israeli DNA all over it.

Israel has not given up on its oppression of palestinians one bit. They have become more aggressive over the years. America has accepted jerusalem as capital and gradually others will too.

On the other hand they have patiently eroded muslim unity on the palestinian issue. Arabs were pacified and now comes Pakistan. How come Israel has not relented one inch from its postion and muslims are gradually giving up on palestinians.

We are a poor country. Haven't helped palestine much. One thing we have done right is to not recognize Israel. Its a principled stance in a world where principles are have been discarded on international stage.

Arabs are not examples to be followed. They will soon face results of their actions. We must not recognize israel and stand by palestinians. Any economic or technological benefit we can potentially get will bettered by our strength if we correct ourselves.

Israel is extremely sensitive and irked when nations don't recognize it.

I do stand by my belief that Pakistan should take a balanced approach in Israel Palestine conflict. We condemn all forms of barbarity by Israel. From apartheid wall to killings and illegal settlements.

The solution is for both to have a recognized state.
 
.
Israel Would
Welcome Ties With Pakistan.
Should India Worry?


According to an op-ed in Haaretz this week,
Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan and his
military supporters are allowing a highly-
censored media unprecedented freedom to
discuss the possibility of establishing
diplomatic relations with Israel. Such a public
debate is not new. The highest-ranking
Pakistani politician who advocated open
diplomatic ties with Israel was the military
dictator Gen. Pervez Musharraf in 2003. Over
the past two decades he has urged his
country to initiate such a diplomatic move.
Nowadays, it seems the once-taboo subject
of reassessing the position on the Jewish
state is more than ever part of mainstream
discourse.
Behind the scenes, Israel and Pakistan have
interacted occasionally. Yet the only public
meeting between officials of the two states,
the famous handshake between Foreign
Minister Silvan Shalom and his Pakistani
counterpart Khursheed Kasuri in Turkey on
September 1, 2005, did not produce a thaw in
the official traditional hostile posture against
Israel. This hostility is well rooted in the
prevailing Muslim culture in Pakistan.
Moreover, the Islamist circles in that country
carry considerable political weight and
vocally oppose a change in Pakistan’s
foreign policy toward Israel.
Nevertheless, the recurrent debates in
Pakistan over Israel reflect the latter’s
improved international standing. The
Pakistanis cannot ignore the shift in attitudes
of the Sunni elites in the Arab world toward
Israel. When in 1991 the United States
convened the Madrid peace conference, all
Arab states accepted the invitation and
agreed to sit with the Israeli delegation,
signaling a greater acceptance of Israel in a
U.S.-dominated world. Egypt and Jordan
signed peace treaties with Israel. The 1993
Oslo Accords between Israel and the PLO
reinforced this trend of political realism.
In addition, the global interest in the
Palestinians’ fortunes has receded
drastically. The dysfunctional aspects of the
Palestinian national movement have become
more evident over time and other
international disputes have caught the
headlines. In the last two decades, the
increased Iranian threat has brought the
conservative Sunni Arab states even closer
to Israel. Based on mutual concerns about
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, the United
Arab Emirates and Qatar have engaged in
quiet cooperation with Israel on security and
intelligence sharing. In some cases, Israelis
have been allowed to visit these countries
(excluding Saudi Arabia).
Meanwhile, Israel’s relations with several
states in Central Asia with large Muslim
majorities are flourishing. Finally, Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has led a very
successful diplomatic campaign turning
Israel into a much-desired partner. The
Pakistani anti-Israeli position looks
increasingly out of sync with international
realities.
Furthermore, it seems that Pakistani national
interests dictate better relations with
Jerusalem. Israel’s new relationship with
India was gradually transformed into what
Prime Minister Narendra Modi termed “a
strategic partnership.” Israeli technology and
arms well served the Indian military effort in
the 1999 Kargil War against Pakistan.
Moreover, the closer Indian-Israeli
cooperation after the 2008 Mumbai terrorist
attacks enhanced Delhi’s capacity to deal
with Pakistan-induced terror. It can be argued
that better relations with Israel might balance
the intensified Indian-Israeli military ties.
Israel is also correctly seen as carrying some
weight in Washington. U.S.-Pakistani
relations are occasionally quite tense. In his
new book “Call Sign Chaos: Learning to
Lead,” former defense secretary and head of
U.S. Central Command Jim Mattis writes: “Of
all the countries I’ve known, I consider
Pakistan to be the most dangerous.” The
transfer of nuclear technology, the provision
of a haven to Islamist radicals, the siding
with China and the prospect of a nuclear
arsenal falling into the hands of Islamic
terrorists are not endearing this country to
America. Israel can be seen as a useful tool
in mitigating in Washington some of the
consequences of Pakistani misbehavior.
Iran is also a point of convergence. Pakistan
fears less Iran, its neighbor to the west, than
Israel. Yet it’s hard to imagine that Islamabad
is indifferent to the possibility of having also
on its western border a nuclear armed-
neighbor. In addition, both countries play
games with the Baluchi minorities beyond
their borders and compete over influence in
Afghanistan. Therefore, the Israeli campaign
against Iran, which weakens an adversary, is
not adverse to Pakistani interests.
Israel, a state in quest of international
legitimacy for many years, has always
welcomed Pakistani overtures. Pakistan is a
large Muslim state, and better relations with
Islamabad could be useful in further diluting
the religious dimension of Israel’s regional
conflict. Israel desires a normalization in
relations with all capitals of the world.
Furthermore, the Pakistani-Saudi special
relations could be leveraged to let both
states overcome their inhibitions on
relations with the Jewish state.
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at
Olga Beach, October 9, 2017. Credit: Kobi
Gideon / GPO
If the Pakistani leadership is seriously
considering a new approach toward Israel, it
will find a responsive partner in Jerusalem.
Israel has much to offer. Islamabad should
know, however, that the relationship with
India is extremely important and Israel will
remain very sensitive to Indian concerns.
India is a more important state than
Pakistan.
Furthermore, Israel is unlikely to spend
political capital in Washington on issues of
secondary importance to its interests. At this
stage, Israel has secured international
legitimacy, and the expected quid pro quo for
having diplomatic relations with a Muslim
state, important as it may be, is
commensurate with Israel’s new international
status.
Prof. Efraim Inbar is the president of the
Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security
and a fellow at the Middle East Forum.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...es-with-pakistan-should-india-worry-1.7805334

Although I don't like Israel due to obvious reasons, but having said that, what GCC have done with us we need to have some level of connection with Israel now, as now we can say to GCC that your issues are not our or umma issues keep them to yourself.
 
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Although I don't like Israel due to obvious reasons, but having said that, what GCC have done with us we need to have some level of connection with Israel now, as now we can say to GCC that your issues are not our or umma issues keep them to yourself.
Nah ..if you want to annoy gcc iran is the key not Israel ... In GCC if not all most of the countries wont think for a second in normalizing their ties with Israel but they are cautious because they're afraid of their general public response.
 
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Nah ..if you want to annoy gcc iran is the key not Israel ... In GCC if not all most of the countries wont think for a second in normalizing their ties with Israel but they are cautious because they're afraid of their general public response.

Iran can not offer us leverage which we can get from Israel but again we should also have good relationship with Iran too.
 
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Iran can not offer us leverage which we can get from Israel but again we should also have good relationship with Iran too.
What sort of leverage will be offered by Israel the state that has been working against Pakistan ever since Pakistan become Nuclear Power.
 
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Not at all. Recognizing the two states is not shameless. It is recognition of the fact that peace can only be attained if two nations live side by side. Whether that works out in reality I don't know, but it is the most fair and balanced solution. If the Palestinians deserve a state so should the other side get a state. Israel needs to stop confiscating Palestinian land to build settlements.

What I or you want is irrelevant. I am referring to state policy and narrative. The state policy and narrative needs to be balanced. Pakistan should change its narrative and be supportive of BOTH sides getting a fair share.
Arabs actually dont want two states..the reason is they think palestine state will cause a spring movement in arab world
 
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What sort of leverage will be offered by Israel the state that has been working against Pakistan ever since Pakistan become Nuclear Power.

If we can make Israel feel not threatened from Pakistan then they will stop opposing us on international platforms and US and EU will also allow more access to their markets for our goods, better economic and military incentives which will allow Pakistan to rebuilt our economy.
 
.
You have a point on Kashmir. There is no denying that Indian move in Kashmir has Israeli DNA all over it.



Israel is extremely sensitive and irked when nations don't recognize it.

I do stand by my belief that Pakistan should take a balanced approach in Israel Palestine conflict. We condemn all forms of barbarity by Israel. From apartheid wall to killings and illegal settlements.

The solution is for both to have a recognized state.




When will the Palestinians/Arabs start to condemn indian atrocities in Kashmir?
 
.
When will the Palestinians/Arabs start to condemn indian atrocities in Kashmir?

World is all about self interest, we supported Palestine since long but Palestine and many Arab countries support India on Kashmir.
 
.
Israel Would
Welcome Ties With Pakistan.
Should India Worry?


According to an op-ed in Haaretz this week,
Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan and his
military supporters are allowing a highly-
censored media unprecedented freedom to
discuss the possibility of establishing
diplomatic relations with Israel. Such a public
debate is not new. The highest-ranking
Pakistani politician who advocated open
diplomatic ties with Israel was the military
dictator Gen. Pervez Musharraf in 2003. Over
the past two decades he has urged his
country to initiate such a diplomatic move.
Nowadays, it seems the once-taboo subject
of reassessing the position on the Jewish
state is more than ever part of mainstream
discourse.
Behind the scenes, Israel and Pakistan have
interacted occasionally. Yet the only public
meeting between officials of the two states,
the famous handshake between Foreign
Minister Silvan Shalom and his Pakistani
counterpart Khursheed Kasuri in Turkey on
September 1, 2005, did not produce a thaw in
the official traditional hostile posture against
Israel. This hostility is well rooted in the
prevailing Muslim culture in Pakistan.
Moreover, the Islamist circles in that country
carry considerable political weight and
vocally oppose a change in Pakistan’s
foreign policy toward Israel.
Nevertheless, the recurrent debates in
Pakistan over Israel reflect the latter’s
improved international standing. The
Pakistanis cannot ignore the shift in attitudes
of the Sunni elites in the Arab world toward
Israel. When in 1991 the United States
convened the Madrid peace conference, all
Arab states accepted the invitation and
agreed to sit with the Israeli delegation,
signaling a greater acceptance of Israel in a
U.S.-dominated world. Egypt and Jordan
signed peace treaties with Israel. The 1993
Oslo Accords between Israel and the PLO
reinforced this trend of political realism.
In addition, the global interest in the
Palestinians’ fortunes has receded
drastically. The dysfunctional aspects of the
Palestinian national movement have become
more evident over time and other
international disputes have caught the
headlines. In the last two decades, the
increased Iranian threat has brought the
conservative Sunni Arab states even closer
to Israel. Based on mutual concerns about
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, the United
Arab Emirates and Qatar have engaged in
quiet cooperation with Israel on security and
intelligence sharing. In some cases, Israelis
have been allowed to visit these countries
(excluding Saudi Arabia).
Meanwhile, Israel’s relations with several
states in Central Asia with large Muslim
majorities are flourishing. Finally, Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has led a very
successful diplomatic campaign turning
Israel into a much-desired partner. The
Pakistani anti-Israeli position looks
increasingly out of sync with international
realities.
Furthermore, it seems that Pakistani national
interests dictate better relations with
Jerusalem. Israel’s new relationship with
India was gradually transformed into what
Prime Minister Narendra Modi termed “a
strategic partnership.” Israeli technology and
arms well served the Indian military effort in
the 1999 Kargil War against Pakistan.
Moreover, the closer Indian-Israeli
cooperation after the 2008 Mumbai terrorist
attacks enhanced Delhi’s capacity to deal
with Pakistan-induced terror. It can be argued
that better relations with Israel might balance
the intensified Indian-Israeli military ties.
Israel is also correctly seen as carrying some
weight in Washington. U.S.-Pakistani
relations are occasionally quite tense. In his
new book “Call Sign Chaos: Learning to
Lead,” former defense secretary and head of
U.S. Central Command Jim Mattis writes: “Of
all the countries I’ve known, I consider
Pakistan to be the most dangerous.” The
transfer of nuclear technology, the provision
of a haven to Islamist radicals, the siding
with China and the prospect of a nuclear
arsenal falling into the hands of Islamic
terrorists are not endearing this country to
America. Israel can be seen as a useful tool
in mitigating in Washington some of the
consequences of Pakistani misbehavior.
Iran is also a point of convergence. Pakistan
fears less Iran, its neighbor to the west, than
Israel. Yet it’s hard to imagine that Islamabad
is indifferent to the possibility of having also
on its western border a nuclear armed-
neighbor. In addition, both countries play
games with the Baluchi minorities beyond
their borders and compete over influence in
Afghanistan. Therefore, the Israeli campaign
against Iran, which weakens an adversary, is
not adverse to Pakistani interests.
Israel, a state in quest of international
legitimacy for many years, has always
welcomed Pakistani overtures. Pakistan is a
large Muslim state, and better relations with
Islamabad could be useful in further diluting
the religious dimension of Israel’s regional
conflict. Israel desires a normalization in
relations with all capitals of the world.
Furthermore, the Pakistani-Saudi special
relations could be leveraged to let both
states overcome their inhibitions on
relations with the Jewish state.
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at
Olga Beach, October 9, 2017. Credit: Kobi
Gideon / GPO
If the Pakistani leadership is seriously
considering a new approach toward Israel, it
will find a responsive partner in Jerusalem.
Israel has much to offer. Islamabad should
know, however, that the relationship with
India is extremely important and Israel will
remain very sensitive to Indian concerns.
India is a more important state than
Pakistan.
Furthermore, Israel is unlikely to spend
political capital in Washington on issues of
secondary importance to its interests. At this
stage, Israel has secured international
legitimacy, and the expected quid pro quo for
having diplomatic relations with a Muslim
state, important as it may be, is
commensurate with Israel’s new international
status.
Prof. Efraim Inbar is the president of the
Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security
and a fellow at the Middle East Forum.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...es-with-pakistan-should-india-worry-1.7805334




PAKISTAN FIRST. We should recognise and normalize relations with Israel ASAP. We may not get any material benefits from this but it will allow us to concentrate more fully on our REAL enemy which has will ALWAYS been india.

World is all about self interest, we supported Palestine since long but Palestine and many Arab countries support India on Kashmir.





EXACTLY. Hence we should give up supporting them fully and recognise Israel ASAP.
 
. .
Arabs actually dont want two states..the reason is they think palestine state will cause a spring movement in arab world
The arab states that matter (GCC) are dictatorships with majority expat population. Don't expect an uprising there.
 
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Pakistan will never have any relationship with the Zionists. and we should not debate this topic here on this forum.
 
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