Anger in Afghanistan at female pilot's US asylum bid

[ayesha.a]

Let her apply, she's just an economic migrant....She signed up to fight for her country and as soon as she got a opportunity she bailed, no pun intended. No wonder afghanistan is in the state its in....

Maybe so. But why did you mention India instead of your own country Bangladesh?

(Also, you live in Britain, don't you? Like I am presently in the US? Why such contempt for migrants, when you are presumably one yourself? Would you apply your last sentence to you or me?)

 

[damiendehorn]

Maybe so. But why did you mention India instead of your own country Bangladesh?

(Also, you live in Britain, don't you? Like I am presently in the US? Why such contempt for migrants, when you are presumably one yourself? Would you apply your last sentence to you or me?)

I mentioned india because a indian suggested she should apply to india for asylum (look back through the posts). As for your second question its half right as my father is from pre war English/Dutch settlers in the UK and my mom is Bangladeshi...I was born here....and yes i would apply the same to you and I in this instance.

I have no difficulty with migrants, we have loads here in the UK from all over the world and though the first generation find it difficult to fully integrate...those born here (second generation) do integrate very well.

What I do object to is someone who signs up to serve their country, bailing out at the first chance to get a better life. Sure apply to get US residence (like others do), but only after you have completed your terms that you sign onto.

 

[TMA]

Let her apply, she's just an economic migrant....She signed up to fight for her country and as soon as she got a opportunity she bailed, no pun intended. No wonder afghanistan is in the state its in....

Coming as an economic migrant is different than seeking asylum? No?

 

[ayesha.a]

I mentioned india because a indian suggested she should apply to india for asylum (look back through the posts). As for your second question its half right as my father is from pre war English/Dutch settlers in the UK and my mom is Bangladeshi...I was born here....and yes i would apply the same to you and I in this instance.

I have no difficulty with migrants, we have loads here in the UK from all over the world and though the first generation find it difficult to fully integrate...those born here (second generation) do integrate very well.

What I do object to is someone who signs up to serve their country, bailing out at the first chance to get a better life. Sure apply to get US residence (like others do), but only after you have completed your terms that you sign onto.

Fair enough, about the first two paras.

Regarding the last two sentences of your post, bear in mind that we haven't walked in her shoes, and we are talking about a very different country than yours or mine. If an Indian military officer did that, the criticism would be more than justified. But Afghanistan - the challenges women face there are unimaginable. It's not just her personal safety that is at stake - the govt there cannot guarantee the safety of her family or friends, and so on. In her case, even some of her family members have been threatening to harm her - does that happen to military professionals in most other countries?

I don't know the specifics of her case, but I do know what women have been subjected to over the years. A young girl who doesn't veil herself in public is enough justification in many people's minds to douse her face with acid. (Some of the Taliban warlords, who later rose to being senior commanders in the Taliban govt, used to boast about the number of girls they had thus disfigured.) Even today, girls risk being disfigured or worse for so much as walking to school.

The hatred that women doing something good for themselves or their people evokes, is staggering. A woman joining the military and fighting them will evoke a lot more hatred in the minds of the other side, than a man doing the same. For all you know, this woman decided to apply for asylum after repeated threats to her or her family.

It is unfair to blame her or call her a coward unless we really know what she has experienced. After all, she didn't need to sign up for the military to be able to apply for asylum. The sequence of events leads me to believe, assuming good faith, that as a young girl she wanted to join the military and secure her country, but then repeated threats (including from her own family members) forced her to reconsider.

We cannot judge her actions on the basis of people's experience in other countries.

 

[MaMo]

it is unfair to blame her or call her a coward unless we really know what she has experienced. After all, she didn't need to sign up for the military to be able to apply for asylum. The sequence of events leads me to believe, assuming good faith, that as a young girl she wanted to join the military and secure her country, but then repeated threats (including from her own family members) forced her to reconsider.

There's nothing wrong with women seeking safety and a better life elsewhere, but if security forces seek asylum then what to expect from ordinary people? Security forces KNOW their lives could be at risk, at the cost of their citizens and country. She knew this. It wasn't a problem when she was all hyped and famed about this, but it became a problem once training in the U.S. came into picture? Very convenient.

And the reason I can make this judgement is because I've been to Afghanistan. Women who work with the government or security forces are highly respected, and their families are actually very supportive. Even in tribal areas in Kandahar if a woman was working with security forces her family would support her, not threaten her. If you decide to sign up to protect your country, then you live up to it regardless of whatever.

You do NOT get beheaded for not wearing face veil. The more North you go in Afghanistan, the more modern the women are clothed. In many of their events even the head scarves go off. I truly feel for refugees and political migrants and I am not at all against any human being trying to seek a better life. At all. But opportunists with ranks like Neelofar don't deserve the requested status for threats of which at least half is false.

 

[ayesha.a]

There's nothing wrong with women seeking safety and a better life elsewhere, but if security forces seek asylum then what to expect from ordinary people? Security forces KNOW their lives could be at risk, at the cost of their citizens and country. She knew this. It wasn't a problem when she was all hyped and famed about this, but it became a problem once training in the U.S. came into picture? Very convenient.

And the reason I can make this judgement is because I've been to Afghanistan. Women who work with the government or security forces are highly respected, and their families are actually very supportive. Even in tribal areas in Kandahar if a woman was working with security forces her family would support her, not threaten her. If you decide to sign up to protect your country, then you live up to it regardless of whatever.

You do NOT get beheaded for not wearing face veil. The more North you go in Afghanistan, the more modern the women are clothed. In many of their events even the head scarves go off. I truly feel for refugees and political migrants and I am not at all against any human being trying to seek a better life. At all. But opportunists with ranks like Neelofar don't deserve the requested status for threats of which at least half is false.

Again, as I said, I do not know the specifics of her situation. I am merely suggesting that we not evaluate all places by the same standard.

If an Indian air force pilot sought asylum because she felt her safety was threatened, I would have no hesitation whatsoever in leveling the criticisms that are being leveled at this woman. But when you say things like "Security forces KNOW their lives can be at risk", you are still looking at the issue from your own country's perspective. (Or that of most free countries.)

Security forces do sign up knowing fully well that their lives could be at risk - FROM THE ENEMY! What if it is under threat from her own people, including her own family? A British soldier doesn't expect to be threatened constantly by her own people in Britain. If that was the case, if a young British soldier found that many people she lives among are now threatening to kill her or harm her for joining the British army, wouldn't you say that your statement becomes inapplicable, or at the very least, a lot less decisive?

The situation may not be "her people v/s the enemies", as it is for British or Indian or American soldiers. She lives in a place where loyalties are divided, and the country is in a state of uneasy peace among many warring factions.

So it is rather unfair to evaluate her action based on our understanding of the professional militaries of our countries, and our societies.

(BTW I don't think I mentioned beheadings anywhere. But acid attacks do happen frequently against girls, even now.)

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/02/world/meast/cnnheroes-jan-afghan-school/
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/04/asia/afghanistan-schoolgirls-acid-attack/
http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...d-on-three-afghan-girls-for-attending-school/

 

[MaMo]

She's been in the Air Force for a good five years now. Wouldn't her family have killed her when she was INSIDE Kabul? And she's been abroad before for training, but the difference was she's only been to Central Asian countries which do not offer the lifestyle USA does. This is purely choice of lifestyle, not safety.

Even if we agree that she's not making up anything and she's indeed being threatened by her family members, how are the threats she faces from extremists in her family different to threats sent by extremist militant groups? She's taken an oath to fight extremists, why does it matter where the extremism flows from? There are women in Kabul who've killed their own husbands because of their husband's extreme or violent behaviour. And here's a airforce pilot, we're talking about.

Again, had I not seen the status women get in security and government sectors, I wouldn't have made this judgement. Women like Neelofar won't be heard, forget about serving her nation in the future, in next five years. And that's simply because nation's interest wasn't the motto after trip to USA. Anymore.

 

[damiendehorn]

Fair enough, about the first two paras.

Regarding the last two sentences of your post, bear in mind that we haven't walked in her shoes, and we are talking about a very different country than yours or mine. If an Indian military officer did that, the criticism would be more than justified. But Afghanistan - the challenges women face there are unimaginable. It's not just her personal safety that is at stake - the govt there cannot guarantee the safety of her family or friends, and so on. In her case, even some of her family members have been threatening to harm her - does that happen to military professionals in most other countries?

I don't know the specifics of her case, but I do know what women have been subjected to over the years. A young girl who doesn't veil herself in public is enough justification in many people's minds to douse her face with acid. (Some of the Taliban warlords, who later rose to being senior commanders in the Taliban govt, used to boast about the number of girls they had thus disfigured.) Even today, girls risk being disfigured or worse for so much as walking to school.

The hatred that women doing something good for themselves or their people evokes, is staggering. A woman joining the military and fighting them will evoke a lot more hatred in the minds of the other side, than a man doing the same. For all you know, this woman decided to apply for asylum after repeated threats to her or her family.

It is unfair to blame her or call her a coward unless we really know what she has experienced. After all, she didn't need to sign up for the military to be able to apply for asylum. The sequence of events leads me to believe, assuming good faith, that as a young girl she wanted to join the military and secure her country, but then repeated threats (including from her own family members) forced her to reconsider.

We cannot judge her actions on the basis of people's experience in other countries.

These are just what you assume to try and justify her actions.

1. First she volunteered to join the services, no one forced her to train to be a pilot.
2. She fully knew the repercusions for what she was doing and what she (and other family members) would face...ever thought what the Taliban will do to her family members? Did she care a toss about them when she applied for assylum?
3. She applied for asylum in the US, why there and not a third world country? Why not in another poor third world country and why after going to the States for training?

If she is genuine then let her apply to live in India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Somalia etc etc, how ever I bet she won't and would do what it takes to live in the West....

The most important point is though is what makes her special, what about the hundreds of thousands of others risking their lives each day fighting, will they also be given the same asylum?

Face it she is an oppurtunist, who will do what it takes to get a better life....period.

 

[RoadRunner401]

These are just what you assume to try and justify her actions.

1. First she volunteered to join the services, no one forced her to train to be a pilot.
2. She fully knew the repercusions for what she was doing and what she (and other family members) would face...ever thought what the Taliban will do to her family members? Did she care a toss about them when she applied for assylum?
3. She applied for asylum in the US, why there and not a third world country? Why not in another poor third world country and why after going to the States for training?

If she is genuine then let her apply to live in India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Somalia etc etc, how ever I bet she won't and would do what it takes to live in the West....

The most important point is though is what makes her special, what about the hundreds of thousands of others risking their lives each day fighting, will they also be given the same asylum?

Face it she is an opportunist, who will do what it takes to get a better life....period.

Are you a female from Afghanistan?

 

[nangyale]

These are just what you assume to try and justify her actions.

1. First she volunteered to join the services, no one forced her to train to be a pilot.
2. She fully knew the repercusions for what she was doing and what she (and other family members) would face...ever thought what the Taliban will do to her family members? Did she care a toss about them when she applied for assylum?
3. She applied for asylum in the US, why there and not a third world country? Why not in another poor third world country and why after going to the States for training?

If she is genuine then let her apply to live in India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Somalia etc etc, how ever I bet she won't and would do what it takes to live in the West....

The most important point is though is what makes her special, what about the hundreds of thousands of others risking their lives each day fighting, will they also be given the same asylum?

Face it she is an oppurtunist, who will do what it takes to get a better life....period.

Hopefully these points will be raised and her asylum bid will be rejected.

She should be court-maritaled in Afghanistan and sent to prison not rewarded.

After all she is a deserter.

 

[damiendehorn]

Are you a female from Afghanistan?

No just someone who believes in honoring their word.

 

[jhungary]

Guess this story have two sides.

Reminded me a few years back, there is this girl just 24 and 25, volunteer to be a police chief in a dangerous Mexico City (Next to the infamous Juarez.) She took it for a few month, fled to the US with her familt and apply for Asylum.........

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/04/mexico-usa
As a person, there are a moral obligation for country to grand safe passage to one when its life is at risk, however, for a soldier or police officer, this risk you took come with a job, you sign up that form knowingly you are risking your life for your country, for your people, for your friend, for your fellow soldier.

If we can all bail when things get tough, well, that would be quite easy for me for my 2 tours in the middle east. THe fact is, you cannot, rather, you should not.

Being a soldier is to take the inherit risk that comes with it, everyone know the same thing, everyone understand the same thing, would I be scare when I was over in a war zone fighting? Of course I do, but the problem is it is not only me who were there, I have people following my command, and If I desert these people, the whole thing falls apart.

Although I think everyone should be grant a safe passage, the thing is, I don't think she should do that morally, afterward, if this fall, what next? You may as well accept the whole female afghanistan population becuase this would be a clear message that nobody, not even the military, can protect them in afghanistan. Because they are the first to run.

While I understand why she would do this, but the anger expressed from the other is also acceptable.

 

[MaMo]

Guess this story have two sides.

Reminded me a few years back, there is this girl just 24 and 25, volunteer to be a police chief in a dangerous Mexico City (Next to the infamous Juarez.) She took it for a few month, fled to the US with her familt and apply for Asylum.........

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/04/mexico-usa
As a person, there are a moral obligation for country to grand safe passage to one when its life is at risk, however, for a soldier or police officer, this risk you took come with a job, you sign up that form knowingly you are risking your life for your country, for your people, for your friend, for your fellow soldier.

If we can all bail when things get tough, well, that would be quite easy for me for my 2 tours in the middle east. THe fact is, you cannot, rather, you should not.

Being a soldier is to take the inherit risk that comes with it, everyone know the same thing, everyone understand the same thing, would I be scare when I was over in a war zone fighting? Of course I do, but the problem is it is not only me who were there, I have people following my command, and If I desert these people, the whole thing falls apart.

Although I think everyone should be grant a safe passage, the thing is, I don't think she should do that morally, afterward, if this fall, what next? You may as well accept the whole female afghanistan population becuase this would be a clear message that nobody, not even the military, can protect them in afghanistan. Because they are the first to run.

While I understand why she would do this, but the anger expressed from the other is also acceptable.

Very well put. I guess if her asylum gets rejected she'll either flee to Canada, where there's a high chance she might get accepted. Or if she gets deported to Afghanistan then she's lost the honour and respect her colleagues and countrymen had for her, especially since she's accused her colleagues of harassing her at work despite of the Air Force putting a lot of money and effort on her training.

For her personally it's a win if she is granted asylum, but for the staff and community it is a big loss: both in terms of emotionally, as well as financially and academically.

 

[jhungary]

Very well put. I guess if her asylum gets rejected she'll either flee to Canada, where there's a high chance she might get accepted. Or if she gets deported to Afghanistan then she's lost the honour and respect her colleagues and countrymen had for her, especially since she's accused her colleagues of harassing her at work despite of the Air Force putting a lot of money and effort on her training.

For her personally it's a win if she is granted asylum, but for the staff and community it is a big loss: both in terms of emotionally, as well as financially and academically.

The thing is, US will grant her asylum (the same deal as the Mexican police chief I mentioned in my post) But they will do so quietly, the case will be judge and the inherit risk (even tho she asked to take the risk in the first place) is obiviously too high, I don't see why US will not grant her asylum.

However, that is immoral for her parts, I am okay with US granting her the asylum status under the table, but I would have at least asked the State Department to cancel or taken back her "Women of Courages" award,

As for her, with her asylum bid success or fail, she WILL BE FOREVER branded as a coward. Chances are 2 or 3 years down the road, nobody will ever remember her anymore. The problem is, what she did is to betray the trust of her fellow soldier, I know a few ANA troop back in the days when I was in Afghanistan, they don't sit well with coward like that. This is a shame actually for the people of afghanistan.

For afghanistan, they needed these pilot, set aside this will set a bad example for everyone, it does not take a rocket scientist to see this really hurt the afghan already depleted manpower. As I said, youmay as well grant asylum to all afghan women as this is a very bad PR.

 

[MaMo]

The thing is, US will grant her asylum (the same deal as the Mexican police chief I mentioned in my post) But they will do so quietly, the case will be judge and the inherit risk (even tho she asked to take the risk in the first place) is obiviously too high, I don't see why US will not grant her asylum.

However, that is immoral for her parts, I am okay with US granting her the asylum status under the table, but I would have at least asked the State Department to cancel or taken back her "Women of Courages" award,

As for her, with her asylum bid success or fail, she WILL BE FOREVER branded as a coward. Chances are 2 or 3 years down the road, nobody will ever remember her anymore. The problem is, what she did is to betray the trust of her fellow soldier, I know a few ANA troop back in the days when I was in Afghanistan, they don't sit well with coward like that. This is a shame actually for the people of afghanistan.

For afghanistan, they needed these pilot, set aside this will set a bad example for everyone, it does not take a rocket scientist to see this really hurt the afghan already depleted manpower. As I said, youmay as well grant asylum to all afghan women as this is a very bad PR.

Apparently Afghan officials have written to the U.S. state department stating her accusations regarding harassment at work is false, and they're willing to provide report of their research. Not sure how that will affect her case but yes I said this too, no one will remember her a few years down the line. As far as I know, U.S. has already milked out high profile Afghans from the country, and this woman could be a good extra addition to the U.S.

Btw, are you Afghan?