Andriy Yermak: Ukraine has launched its own production line of TB2 UAVs

[dBSPL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1474767882999549957

Probably Baykar's some other end-products are also planned to be produced in Ukraine gradually.

 

[Pandora]

These drones will play critical role against Russia. It is a very timely procurement.

 

[Trango Towers]

And question is why hasn't Pakistan?

 

[dBSPL]

Alexey Arestovych, an adviser of President Volodemir Zelensky:

Instead of buying planes like Rafael, Gripen, F-15, F-16, we need to improve on UAV-UCAV. Our next step is to produce a new jet-powered-UCAV in partnership between Turkey and Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475410052014084098

 

[Tshering22]

Alexey Arestovych, an adviser of President Volodemir Zelensky:

Instead of buying planes like Rafael, Gripen, F-15, F-16, we need to improve on UAV-UCAV. Our next step is to produce a new jet-powered-UCAV in partnership between Turkey and Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475410052014084098

Turkey has caught on to this game early. This will definitely go a long way in helping Ukraine hold off the Russian forces until any form of military support/proxy support can come along to help them.

But do you think that Putin would request Turkey to look the other way? Maybe offer you guys the Su-57 and Su-75 joint production or something for the TF-X as a counter to the Anglo-Swedish Tempest that you're trying to join?

Think about it; you could use this as a bargaining chip to re-enter the F-35 project.

 

[FuturePAF]

Alexey Arestovych, an adviser of President Volodemir Zelensky:

Instead of buying planes like Rafael, Gripen, F-15, F-16, we need to improve on UAV-UCAV. Our next step is to produce a new jet-powered-UCAV in partnership between Turkey and Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475410052014084098

A vertical lift fan version maybe perfect for the Turkish Light carrier being built.

 

[dBSPL]

Turkey has caught on to this game early. This will definitely go a long way in helping Ukraine hold off the Russian forces until any form of military support/proxy support can come along to help them.

But do you think that Putin would request Turkey to look the other way? Maybe offer you guys the Su-57 and Su-75 joint production or something for the TF-X as a counter to the Anglo-Swedish Tempest that you're trying to join?

Think about it; you could use this as a bargaining chip to re-enter the F-35 project.

Relations between Turkey and Ukraine are far beyond UAV partnerships and are increasingly strategic. Aselsan, Roketsan, Havelsan, TAI, ASFAT etc... all major sectoral leaders started joint projects and even establishing JVs with the Ukrainian defense industry.

There are not only Turkish interests here; In order to keep the defense industry alive, Ukraine has to quickly end its dependence on Russia and reach NATO standards and reach Atlantic/dependent markets. (Many defense companies in Ukraine were the sub-suppliers of the Russian defense industry and aviation. And naturally, Russia had a significant share in the supply chain of many Ukranian companies.) Thus, it may be possible for the industry in Ukraine to be freed from the affect of the Russian-Ukrainian tension by re-planning the supply networks in both buying and selling directions. For example Antonov, as in the Aselsan partnership, there is a policy based on mutual interests not only in the military dimension but also in the civil aviation field. The most ideal and healthy way for Ukraine is to establish partnerships with Turkish companies, whic are already NATO suppliers.

Trying to draw parallels between this issue and Turkey's JSF problem would be a rather superficial point of view. The projects in question, and more importantly, almost all of the legal arrangements and interstate agreements that constitute the infrastructure of relations between countries date back to before Turkey's JSF-S400 crisis.

I can clearly say this regarding the studies on Turkey's acquisition of a new combat jet: Turkey does not have a jet demand from Russia. If you look at the sources of these news, you will see that almost all of them originate from the Russian Ministry of Defense or Rosoboronexport. Russia may well be open to cooperation with Turkey. Because even though the interests of these countries intersect at many points, there is no threat relationship between them. In this respect, Turkey-Russia relations reached a new level, especially with the RTE-Putin era. In the past, the situation was different. The main issue that the USA cannot accept in Turkey-Russia relations is the paradigm breakdown in the geopolitics of the region.

In addition, the entire organization, training, logistics and technical infrastructure of the Turkish air force has adopted NATO standards and has been programmed accordingly. If you include an eastern bloc combat element in this system, technical problems will arise that cannot be overcome for decades. In addition, tens of thousands of pages of documentation, personnel training, the establishment of new maintenance lines, the technical integration of this whole new system with the existing air force structure... Developing its own aircraft is a less costly and faster choice for Turkey.

Unless Russia completely opens its systems to Turkish avionics and these systems can be integrated into NATO standard communications, encryption and data links, it is highly unlikely that Turkey will receive a main combat jet for combatant fleets from Russia. Maybe there can be a model like the Italian-Russian partnership (Alenia-Yakovlev). However, even in that case, the US wing will expand the circle of sanctions due to the current cyclical conditions. The main backbone of the Turkish air force is F16-block 50/52 aircraft. And their modernization work continues. Unlike the F-4 or Block-30 F-16s, critical components, especially the mission computer, are still under US control. Turkey will not want to completely disrupt relations and to act in violation of international license agreements before completing the modernization program, which includes domestic AESA radar and mission computer, at least for F-16s.

Very briefly: Turkey is rapidly trying to modernize its F-16 fleet and complete its structural strengthening programs, while minimizing the risk factors in the MMU project. There are serious investments and resource transfers in MMU. Meanwhile, some stop-gap solutions, especially Eurofighter, could be on agenda. However, if you ask me, when Turkey's EF acquisition is evaluated together with the current Turkey-England relations, it will indicate that Turkey will establish a more strategic relationship with England, not with Russia. That also means MMU and Team Tempest groups may mutual business shares on a subsystem basis. There is a partnership between Italian and Turkish companies regarding the design and manufacture of MMU's landing gear. Main partner company in MMU's design activities is BAE Systems, and RR was at the forefront of the foreign companies negotiating the next generation engine... The new facility in Turkey is not yet operational, and wind tests were also carried out in England during the preliminary design phase of MMU. When we go into more detail, other signs can be seen. While Turkey is moving away from old traditional partners in terms of collobration, it is getting closer and closer to the new initiative led by UK, Spain, Italy. To understand this, it would be quite explanatory to follow the relations of the Turkish defense industry.

 

[Tshering22]

Relations between Turkey and Ukraine are far beyond UAV partnerships and are increasingly strategic. Aselsan, Roketsan, Havelsan, TAI, ASFAT etc... all major sectoral leaders started joint projects and even establishing JVs with the Ukrainian defense industry.

There are not only Turkish interests here; In order to keep the defense industry alive, Ukraine has to quickly end its dependence on Russia and reach NATO standards and reach Atlantic/dependent markets. (Many defense companies in Ukraine were the sub-suppliers of the Russian defense industry and aviation. And naturally, Russia had a significant share in the supply chain of many Ukranian companies.) Thus, it may be possible for the industry in Ukraine to be freed from the affect of the Russian-Ukrainian tension by re-planning the supply networks in both buying and selling directions. For example Antonov, as in the Aselsan partnership, there is a policy based on mutual interests not only in the military dimension but also in the civil aviation field. The most ideal and healthy way for Ukraine is to establish partnerships with Turkish companies, whic are already NATO suppliers.

Trying to draw parallels between this issue and Turkey's JSF problem would be a rather superficial point of view. The projects in question, and more importantly, almost all of the legal arrangements and interstate agreements that constitute the infrastructure of relations between countries date back to before Turkey's JSF-S400 crisis.

I can clearly say this regarding the studies on Turkey's acquisition of a new combat jet: Turkey does not have a jet demand from Russia. If you look at the sources of these news, you will see that almost all of them originate from the Russian Ministry of Defense or Rosoboronexport. Russia may well be open to cooperation with Turkey. Because even though the interests of these countries intersect at many points, there is no threat relationship between them. In this respect, Turkey-Russia relations reached a new level, especially with the RTE-Putin era. In the past, the situation was different. The main issue that the USA cannot accept in Turkey-Russia relations is the paradigm breakdown in the geopolitics of the region.

In addition, the entire organization, training, logistics and technical infrastructure of the Turkish air force has adopted NATO standards and has been programmed accordingly. If you include an eastern bloc combat element in this system, technical problems will arise that cannot be overcome for decades. In addition, tens of thousands of pages of documentation, personnel training, the establishment of new maintenance lines, the technical integration of this whole new system with the existing air force structure... Developing its own aircraft is a less costly and faster choice for Turkey.

Unless Russia completely opens its systems to Turkish avionics and these systems can be integrated into NATO standard communications, encryption and data links, it is highly unlikely that Turkey will receive a main combat jet for combatant fleets from Russia. Maybe there can be a model like the Italian-Russian partnership (Alenia-Yakovlev). However, even in that case, the US wing will expand the circle of sanctions due to the current cyclical conditions. The main backbone of the Turkish air force is F16-block 50/52 aircraft. And their modernization work continues. Unlike the F-4 or Block-30 F-16s, critical components, especially the mission computer, are still under US control. Turkey will not want to completely disrupt relations and to act in violation of international license agreements before completing the modernization program, which includes domestic AESA radar and mission computer, at least for F-16s.

Very briefly: Turkey is rapidly trying to modernize its F-16 fleet and complete its structural strengthening programs, while minimizing the risk factors in the MMU project. There are serious investments and resource transfers in MMU. Meanwhile, some stop-gap solutions, especially Eurofighter, could be on agenda. However, if you ask me, when Turkey's EF acquisition is evaluated together with the current Turkey-England relations, it will indicate that Turkey will establish a more strategic relationship with England, not with Russia. That also means MMU and Team Tempest groups may mutual business shares on a subsystem basis. There is a partnership between Italian and Turkish companies regarding the design and manufacture of MMU's landing gear. Main partner company in MMU's design activities is BAE Systems, and RR was at the forefront of the foreign companies negotiating the next generation engine... The new facility in Turkey is not yet operational, and wind tests were also carried out in England during the preliminary design phase of MMU. When we go into more detail, other signs can be seen. While Turkey is moving away from old traditional partners in terms of collobration, it is getting closer and closer to the new initiative led by UK, Spain, Italy. To understand this, it would be quite explanatory to follow the relations of the Turkish defense industry.

Speaking of which, Has Lockheed Martin returned the money that you invested in the F-35 project?

I thought as much that Turkey getting closer to the UK-Sweden-Italy-backed Tempest project is a logical sense. TF-X could be a derivative of the Tempest R&D done. Since you already have a collaboration with the Italian Leonardo on the T-129 ATAK design, making such a future partnership very viable.

The UK is within NATO and yet not compelled by European politics unlike Germany or the geopolitical complications with France that you have. The British are also trying to get Japan in on a joint next-generation engine project for the Mitsubishi F-3. There is even a possibility of India collaborating with the British Rolls Royce for these engines for our AMCA project.

Simply put, the UK has a major role to play in the aerospace development of several countries in the coming years either as a supplier or as a partner. However, the one risk that you run with them is the overarching presence of the US influence on their foreign policy. For example, while the F-16s that you have you can modernize in-house, but the weapons package will have to come from the US, as they don't allow integrating non-American/ future Turkish AAMs, and ASMs on F-16 platforms.

This is what they are doing with Egypt right now; they don't officially sanction Egyptians but are rejecting their request for new AAMs, making Egyptians F-16s pretty much as effective as a jet of an older generation.

 

[dBSPL]

1. Under the deal Baykar will establish a new factory and training centre in Ukraine
2. Next gen TB2s to use Motor Sich engines
3. Ukraine and Turkey will start new UCAV projects together

Ukraine deepens defence ties with Turkey amid standoff with Russia​

Defence cooperation deal will see a Baykar Turkish drone factory built in Ukraine

A Turkish-made Bayraktar TB2 drone flies above the Gecitkale military airbase, near Famagusta in the self-proclaimed Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) on December 16, 2019 (AFP)


Ukraine and Turkey on Thursday signed a series of agreements - including a deal that will expand the production capabilities of Turkish drone-maker Baykar, which saw its drones deployed last year in Kiev's war against Russian-backed separatists in its eastern Donbass region.

The two countries signed eight agreements, which also included a trade deal that Kiev says will boost bilateral trade to around $10bn over the next five years.

"[The] defence industry and aviation are the main driving force for our strategic partnership," Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told reporters.
"Baykar will expand its production of unmanned aerial vehicles in Ukraine, and Ukraine will strengthen its defence capabilities with these new technologies and jobs."

"Baykar will expand its production of unmanned aerial vehicles in Ukraine, and Ukraine will strengthen its defence capabilities with these new technologies and jobs"
- President Volodymyr Zelensky

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has a close - but sometimes fraught - relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, reiterated Ankara's support for the territorial integrity of Ukraine as tensions Moscow continue to escalate.

"Our visit takes place in a sensitive time," he said. "I would like to reiterate that we are supporting the Ukrainian sovereignty over Crimea."

Erdogan added that Turkey would like to be a mediator between Russia and Ukraine, who he sees as "two friendly neighbours".

"It could be either by arranging a meeting at the presidential level or at technical levels," he said.

The Turkish government has been walking a tightrope between Russia and Ukraine, with which Ankara has historic defence ties.

Rising tensions​

Russia has deployed about 120,000 troops near its border with Ukraine, and has also signalled its displeasure with growing defence cooperation between Ankara and Kiev.

Ukraine has nearly 20 TB-2 Baykar armed drones which have proven their worth against Russian-made military hardware in several countries. Ukraine also supplies the engines for Baykar's Akincı, another medium-altitude, long-endurance drone.

"This will, in fact, be the Ukrainian-Turkish Bayraktar in terms of technological content"
- Oleksii Reznikov, Ukrainian defence minister

Russian officials publicly rebuked Ankara for the sales, but a senior Turkish official told Bloomberg on Thursday that the country would not backtrack from its arms deals just to please Russia.

Ahead of Erdogan's visit, Ukrainian Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov told reporters he would ask his Turkish counterpart for more hardware, including body armour and helmets.

"Today we will talk to my colleague about the possibility of supplying security systems," he said. "Because, as it turned out, there is a huge queue for Nato countries to purchase these systems."

Reznikov also said that the defence industry cooperation deal would increase cooperation in the field of high-grade military technology:
"One of the examples of fulfilling this agreement will be the construction of the Bayraktar plant, which produces drones that will be manufactured in Ukraine and will accordingly create a training centre that will train our pilots to operate unmanned drones of various categories."

Baykar, which produces the TB-2, acquired land in Ukraine in December to build a factory for co-production purposes.

Reznikov also said the next generation TB-2 drones would use Ukrainian engines manufactured by Motor Sich.

"This will, in fact, be the Ukrainian-Turkish Bayraktar in terms of technological content. Well, accordingly, they will be used in the armed forces of Ukraine and Turkey, and those countries that will be willing to buy them," he added.

 

[aziqbal]

Pakistan has a golden opportunity to side with Ukraine + Turkey and gain a friend and more friends

Ukraine has a huge heavy industrial base which can help both Pakistan and Turkey

and high tech stuff can come from Turkey to Ukraine

 

[Trango Towers]

Pakistan has a golden opportunity to side with Ukraine + Turkey and gain a friend and more friends

Ukraine has a huge heavy industrial base which can help both Pakistan and Turkey

and high tech stuff can come from Turkey to Ukraine

Looool and the Russian engines foe the jf17??

Oh some people and their brains

 

[313ghazi]

That's good business right there.