Ancient History not Appreciated by Pakistanis?

[Omar1984]

This is a map from Minnesota State University.

The borders are approximate, yet there's as much of a border inside Iran and Afghanistan, as there is in India.

The three important sites are all located in Pakistan.

The map centres on the Indus Valley.

To see Harappa, Mohenjo-Daro, Mehgarh you must need a PAKISTANI visa and travel to PAKISTAN. If you think its Indian and get a visa to India and travel to India, I'm afraid then you wont get to see Harappa, Mohenjo-Daro or Mehgarh because you'll be in the wrong country and Harappa, Mohenjo-Daro, or Mehgarh is no where to be found in India.

 

[UnitedPak]

Indus Valley: 3300 B.C

 

[asq]

Indus Valley: 3300 B.C

Great work United Pak.

 

[Omar1984]

Pakistan has very rich history indeed. Another great archeological discovery made in Pakistani soil is Taxila which was the center of Buddhist learning from 5th century BCE to 6th century BCE.

I posted a few pictures on Taxila and also IVC http://www.defence.pk/forums/genera...hitecture-pakistan-historical-overview-5.html

 

[acer]

So you people are providing proof that Indus civilization was in ancient pakistan..Then you people have to agree on many things which are uncomfortable to the very much Idea of pakistan

 

[UnitedPak]

So you people are providing proof that Indus civilization was in ancient pakistan..Then you people have to agree on many things which are uncomfortable to the very much Idea of pakistan

No 'proof' is needed. Its blitheringly obvious that Pakistani people are natives hence all the regions history belongs to them. Indus Valley is just another name for the Pakistan region (look up Indus river).

Although congratulations on missing the point entirely. It would seem these facts are making you much more uncomfortable.

 

[acer]

No 'proof' is needed. Its blitheringly obvious that Pakistani people are natives hence all the regions history belongs to them. Indus Valley is just another name for the Pakistan region (look up Indus river).

Although congratulations on missing the point entirely. It would seem these facts are making you much more uncomfortable.

Hystory books recorded that Indus valley civilization started along sides of Indus river and south asian people shared same ancestors because there were no other civilization in this part..Now what you are trying to say please clarify,,

 

[UnitedPak]

Hystory books recorded that Indus valley civilization started along sides of Indus river and south asian people shared same ancestors because there were no other civilization in this part..Now what you are trying to say please clarify,,

Only certain "historians" record such non sense.

Bear in mind that the Indus Valley declined only a few thousand years ago. Humans settled in India 30.000 years ago. No migrations happened as recently as 5.000 years ago and since Pakistan has been inhabited continuously, no self respecting historian would discredit Pakistanis from their own history in such a blatant manner as Indian historians.

Take a note that your historians are inventing theories of vanishing rivers, major natural disasters, mass migrations of entire populations and invading armies replacing/driving out entire populations. I forget how all these theories come together, but apparently they do.

 

[Vinod2070]

No 'proof' is needed. Its blitheringly obvious that Pakistani people are natives hence all the regions history belongs to them. Indus Valley is just another name for the Pakistan region (look up Indus river).

Although congratulations on missing the point entirely. It would seem these facts are making you much more uncomfortable.

Although it is not "blitheringly obvious that Pakistani people are natives", it is still a fact that it is you people who chose to disparage everything pre-Islamic as Jahiliyah for a thousand years. A large number of you still do so.

It is facing up to the reality of the Raison d'être of Pakistan and it's circumstances that forces you to discard any links to the ancient history of the land and indeed to disparage it and bad mouth it, to hail your own invaders as liberators and even hail them bad mouthing your own forefathers and motherland!

The title of the thread suggests that Pakistanis should look inwards to see and reassess the reasons for this sorry state of affairs but it has become an occasion to blame India of "stealing" some mythical "ancient Pakistani" history instead of really taking a hard look at whether some of those myths which force these behaviors need to be re-evaluated.

That may indeed pose some tough questions about the very convenient myths that most of you take for granted. That is the last thing you guys want. To face up to reality!

 

[roadrunner]

Erm, but Joshi, Bala and Ram are not mentioned in my sources at all! .

Also, your continual harping on the "Saraswati Civilization" is a red herring, because you are seeking to associate my posts with the nationalist interpretations of some Indian archaeologists with the Rigvedic Saraswati.

I wasn't referring to your list.

And I agree with stuff by Mughal because he did his research in Pakistan and on Pakistani sites that were verified by Western and neutral researchers.

SP Gupta has had nothing verified by Western researchers and he's part of a broader fascist Hindu network of archaeologists that fabricate and fake data.


Ironically, many of those expressing these anti-migrational views are emigrants themselves, engineers or technocrats like N.S. Rajaram, S. Kak, and S. Kalyanaraman, who ship their ideas to India from U.S. shores. They find allies in a broader assortment of home-grown nationalists including university professors, bank employees, and politicians (S. S. Misra, S. Talageri, K.D. Sethna, S.P. Gupta, Bh. Singh, M. Shendge, Bh. Gidwani, P. Chaudhuri, A. Shourie, S.R. Goel). They have even gained a small but vo cal following in the West among "New Age" writers or researchers outside mainstream scholarship, including D. Frawley
HORSEPLAY IN HARAPPA

It's a fact that SP Gupta backed up faked data by Rajaram on the IVC. His credibility is zero in my eyes, and clearly amongst the world community of archaeological professors.

Another thing about the IVC sites is that they're not verified by anyone except fanatics from India. They do not follow any sort of guidelines to determinean IVC site. If something looks like rubble the automatic idea sits in their minds, this could be an IVC site. No proof is needed, just a bit of rubble. Foreign archaeologists would not classify half of SP Gupta's sites as IVC sites.

 

[rubyjackass]

NO! I just don't get (and agree with) this approach of trying to associate history with the accident of modern geography.

Gr8 lines...

The worst part is the claim about 'owning' the civilization.

 

[Destructlord]

Battle of Thermo-poly or something like that is just a myth! The only battle that Greeks won was written in their fantasy book! (Unfortunately Persians had no interest in writing history book! but recently several ancient documents found (in Khuzestan). which completely deny the ridiculous theories of Greeks!). But please think twice! How Persian Empire could have send more than 2 million troops?! troops need logistic support! moreover... not even today U.S is able to mobilize two million troops!

 

[UnitedPak]

The Indus River is not "modern geography". Pakistani civilisations have always been based around the Indus river.

Vinod, you are constantly bringing up modern politics yourself. Certain Pakistani misconceptions about their origins do NOT change facts. You clearly seem to think they do, and that's the only thing you have been rambling on about for the past 20 pages.
I have answered you again and again, and quite frankly you sound like a stuck record now.

 

[UnitedPak]

Although it is not "blitheringly obvious that Pakistani people are natives", it is still a fact that it is you people who chose to disparage everything pre-Islamic as Jahiliyah for a thousand years. A large number of you still do so.

Pakistanis are natives to the Indus region.

Please provide any kind of evidence for your absurd claims that Punjabis, Sindhis, Pashtuns and Balochis are not natives to their respective provinces.

 

[Vinod2070]

The Indus River is not "modern geography". Pakistani civilisations have always been based around the Indus river.

The Indus River is not "modern geography". The country of Pakistan that was created for Indian Muslims in 1947 is!

Not sure why this simple and obvious fact is not sinking in!

And you chose to disregard the obvious fact that it is Muslims who disregarded their history for a thousand years (common to not only Indian Muslims but to others as well like Persian and Egyptians).

Frankly it is surprising to see you (and some others) blaming India for continuing to embrace their history, to acknowledge it, to be consistent about it. It is some Pakistanis who are finally waking up to it after a long slumber and you are welcome to embrace it. I have seen no post about how the Pakistanis need to become aware of their glorious pre-Islamic history, how this gives a lie to all those claims about people waiting with baited breath for foreign invaders to liberate them from some cruel order and so on.

Frankly I see nothing but just trying to appropriate some history and then junk it. Embracing the history doesn't require you to get into the spin about India at all!