Regrettably, while the rest of your post 785 doesn't live up to the bright promise of your first paragraph, there is nothing better in this thread, with the exception of Developereo's terse interventions keeping the liberal point of view uncompromised and out of the reach of muck. That is most appreciated, but it also leaves us with the problem that, apart from that, there is nothing particularly striking about the rest: just a mish-mash of muddled logic and an apparent inability to put together even a single logical argument based on facts - facts validated and tested by professional historians, not facts emerging from 'mother-in-law' research (I know because my mother-in-law told me so).
What choice do we have? This is as good as it gets.
Joe Shearer said:
It is regrettable that you start with the proposition that it is impossible to have a debate with "bharati" people (incidentally, the use of that term is considered as derogatory as the use of the term P***, so please desist from using it in future), without considering that in a debate, while two opposite opinions may be held initially, the premise of the debate must be that facts and their rational analysis will finally prevail, not a dogged insistence on having one's own opinion upheld. Unless you free yourselves to consider the facts, you will find yourselves continuing to discuss this issue till infinity.
TheStrantrunCurve said:
I had no desire to inflame Indians by calling them bhartis.
Good, good......
TheStrantrunCurve said:
Bharat is an official name of your country, In Urdu we refer to India as Bharat. I have serious reservation over Bharat naming itself India. The name India was shared between both Pakistan and Bharat. Originally it was applied only to Indus valley which Alexander invaded but later it was applied to whole south Asia. When Pakistan gained its independence from Britons it might have been logical for the new state in the Indus valley to take the name India or even Industan as the valley was called by English sailors but our founder rejected this name given by invaders. We have our history to be proud of and do not need to take the name/identity from invaders. Since you Indians had no history Nehru was right to steal the name India from Indus valley Pakistanis to claim as theirs. You people have nothing to be proud of, it is Pakistanis who should be that Indian ocean is named after their river Indus. You people are known throughout the world due to the achievements of Pakistani ancestors. Jinnah was furious when Bharat chose the name India and felt bharat had hijacked Pakistans millennia of civilization.
Pakistani press in its early years used to call India "Bharat" and referred to Indians as "Bharatis.", obviously Pakistani civilian leadership of that time were against this bharati fraud. Even president Eisenhower once referred to Nehru as the "Prime Minister of 'Bharat. It was only after military coup when the loser general Ayub Khan came to power that attitude of the Pakistani press changed bharat became India. Some self defeatist Pakistanis didnt care about losing their identity to Bhartis but many did care. Pakistan is a child of Indus and I always try my best to not call Bharat as India, since this our heritage and you people have no history this is why you are trying to rob us of our history. I am not the only person who calls Indian bharti there are thousands out there. Why not call yourself bhartis what wrong with this name Bharata was a legendary Hindu hero. You people are obviously suffering from identity crises.
This response of yours is dishonest. There is no other description possible.
In case you are not aware of this yet, a cursory examination of my posts might - barely might - indicate to you that I already have a knowledge of my country's names for itself, as rendered in the Constitution itself, a document which I revere and which I have read more than once.
Yes, Bharat is what my country is called, and is to be called when a reference is made to the name of the country in an Indian language that is not English.
No, neither I nor any other Bharatiya has any objection to being known by the name of our country.
You know this, we know this. In addition, you and we know that the name of your country is Pakistan. That being so, why do we abstain from calling you P_a_k_i_s? Because that is a derogatory, racist name, one used by British louts and drunken ruffians to insult people from Pakistan.
Do you, those of you resident in Great Britain most of all, but others as well, like being called P_a_k_i_s? Do you see no difference between that epithet, that pejorative and Pakistani? That is exactly how we feel when we are insulted by being called Bharti, and not Bharatiya.
So spare us the silly lecture on how the two countries chose their names, and stick to the main subject: if you don't like facing parochial insult, a very good place to start stopping it would be to refrain from parochial insult yourself.