Ancient Hindu-Buddhist civilization seal discovered in Pakistan

[usernaame]

@Jayron... who destroyed the statue? taliban... whose restoring the ancient univ ... taxila university?Pak army sponsored destruction of a temple? ROFL... Pak Army itself has hindus... and ur article or proof is wikipedia? seriously?

@vignesh.... dont ur history books teach tht tipu sultan converted people..destroyed temples etc? while the truth is tht he gave grants to temples,his chief of army was a hindu,so was his prime minister etc?aurangzeb wasnt tht bad either.. also i was educated in Army public schools!i didnt read anything like you described.

No.

Your history is of kings and emperors. Our history is about People and society, kings and emperors are only for period designation. Indian History text books are as objective as they can get. Don't compare it with Your country., we don't have baggage to justify.

 

[Tiger Awan]

Timur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

U think people will still follow hinduism after this barbarism?
They will feel its better to change religion, than to die, its natural plus jizya makes a life abnormal!!

As if Timur was there even when the British ruled over sub continent. Why these forced conversions remained Muslim during that era (even today in India??? Why???)

and jizya is a type of Tax. Its for Non-Muslims. Muslim pay zakat. You cant get rid of it even after changing religion

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

@Jayron... who destroyed the statue? taliban... whose restoring the ancient univ ... taxila university?Pak army sponsored destruction of a temple? ROFL... Pak Army itself has hindus... and ur article or proof is wikipedia? seriously?

@vignesh.... dont ur history books teach tht tipu sultan converted people..destroyed temples etc? while the truth is tht he gave grants to temples,his chief of army was a hindu,so was his prime minister etc?aurangzeb wasnt tht bad either.. also i was educated in Army public schools!i didnt read anything like you described.

Exactly !!
Mens like tipu, hyder ali, akbar, shah jehan, and even jehangir are liked by indian hindus !!!
But they came up very late after the 15 th century !!
I even admire Babur for his courage after he was made king at the age of 11, but that doesnt mean he didnt make mistakes!!
The fact is i am never trying to blame every muslim king in india, however some muslim kings in india did try to forcefully convert his subjects through jizya's , political means etc

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 PM ----------

As if Timur was there even when the British ruled over sub continent. Why these forced conversions remained Muslim during that era (even today in India??? Why???)

and jizya is a type of Tax. Its for Non-Muslims. Muslim pay zakat. You cant get rid of it even after changing religion

What is zakat?
I have never heard about this !!!
I have seen many arguements about reconverting again !!
The british came nealy 300 years after this, n u have to note that the religious torture relaxed only after Akbar's era !!
After 5 or 6 generations, people may feel wy should i convert again?
Or they might have forgotton their own family history !!!

 

[usernaame]

As if Timur was there even when the British ruled over sub continent. Why these forced conversions remained Muslim during that era (even today in India??? Why???)

and jizya is a type of Tax. Its for Non-Muslims. Muslim pay zakat. You cant get rid of it even after changing religion

1. stupid question. If one generation is stuck the following generations get stuck too. and these force conversions are not exactly forced. Families convert for a variety of reasons like change in social status, seeking official posts in kings courts, to escape rouge military elements of kings we can go on..

2. We all know that. Some rulers integrated jiziya in to existing taxes and someothers didn't. It's irrelevant anyway. don't be naive about things.

 

[Mblaze]

Hope u replace british made text books based on anti islam nonsense... You gave the example of timur... He wasnt doing anything for islam... he killed more muslims than hindus... heck even local muslims of rajput n other castes or origins fought him and died......... so spare us th nonsense.

Babar have done the same or to say most of the muslim invaders/rulers have done the same they have killed more of their fellow Muslim brothers then Hindus/Buddhists.

Remember The Pashtun Ibrahim Lodi who was ruling Delhi but Babur attacked and killed Ibrahim Lodi and his Muslim army. And pakistan have missile named after Babur.

 

[Tiger Awan]

What is zakat?
I have never heard about this !!!

never heard about five pillars of Islam ???

Zak

 

[usernaame]

Pakistanis should stop assuming that they know more about Islam or Islamic history. IMHO you know nothing because you people tend to glorify things for your national pride. And please don't teach Indians about objectivity.

 

[Tiger Awan]

1. stupid question. If one generation is stuck the following generations get stuck too. and these force conversions are not exactly forced. Families convert for a variety of reasons like change in social status, seeking official posts in kings courts, to escape rouge military elements of kings we can go on..

2. We all know that. Some rulers integrated jiziya in to existing taxes and someothers didn't. It's irrelevant anyway. don't be naive about things.

1) stupid answer. If someone is INTELLIGENT enough to change his religion for some gains he can do that again ( or his generation)

2) looks like you also dont know about Zakat.

---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------

Pakistanis should stop assuming that they know more about Islam or Islamic history. IMHO you know nothing because you people tend to glorify things for your national pride. And please don't teach Indians about objectivity.

you cant argue with some people ......

 

[usernaame]

1) stupid answer. If someone is INTELLIGENT enough to change his religion for some gains he can do that again ( or his generation)

2) looks like you also dont know about Zakat.

Hmm, I used the word generation for a reason.

Yes, Muslims paid a compulsory Zakat. Indian history books give exact numbers and show that many rulers tried to make this rate equal for Muslims(zakat) and non-muslims(jiziya).

 

[Tiger Awan]

Hmm, I used the word generation for a reason.

Yes, Muslims paid a compulsory Zakat. Indian history books give exact numbers and show that many rulers tried to make this rate equal for Muslims(zakat) and non-muslims(jiziya).

how can someone (who changed his religion for some material gain) make his son a loyal Muslim? We are talking about a time where families played a big role in the development of the next generation. These things don't have a long lasting effect.

 

[usernaame]

how can someone (who changed his religion for some material gain) make his son a loyal Muslim? We are talking about a time where families played a big role in the development of the next generation. These things don't have a long lasting effect.

You don't have any idea what you are talking about, do you?

'Loyal' Muslim . Is Islam a political entity? But that's another discussion.

For you ti understand what this generation thing is, you have to understand caste system among Indian Muslims.
Ashrafs and Ajlafs
- sheiks, Pathans - Ashrafs claim ancestral roots. wherein one partner of the marriage is already Muslim and the other is non Muslim and convert before marriage.
- indigenous people - Ajlafs -coverts are different.
all these are endogamous and even today retain respective cultures. for instance, Ajlafs retain retain their Hindu caste names.

For you to understand the conversion process and why people don't leave Islam, you have to understand social pressures involved esp from the same caste group or ethnic group, for ex people and their respective communities lose their social and political standing if they change religion.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

...
For you ti understand what this generation thing is, you have to understand caste system among Indian Muslims.
Ashrafs and Ajlafs
- sheiks, Pathans - Ashrafs claim ancestral roots. wherein one partner of the marriage is already Muslim and the other is non Muslim and convert before marriage.
- indigenous people - Ajlafs -coverts are different.
all these are endogamous and even today retain respective cultures. for instance, Ajlafs retain retain their Hindu caste names.
...

Oh the 'madhab hindi' or 'the Indian sect' the rest of the world mocked Indian Muslims about! That can't be generalizable to the rest of the world and therefore to islam in general.

 

[usernaame]

Oh the 'madhab hindi' or 'the Indian sect' the rest of the world mocked Indian Muslims about! That can't be generalizable to the rest of the world and therefore to islam in general.

First of all 'rest of the world' is a big word. you could have used rest of the 'Muslim world'.(rest of the world doesn't care)

Anyway I wanted to talk about India(continental) context only.

I can tell you about Religious conversion why people retain their religion from parents but that would make it a research paper.
But i can tell you about Conversion process in Greater Iran from Zoroastrianism to Islam and why Islam still has a strong hold in rural Iran(as opposed to urban) if you want.

 

[british bean]

why does everything turn out in Pakistan......Gandhara civilization in Pakistani provinces of Punjab and Khyber-Pakhtunwa.....MaherGerh civilization 8000BC in Pakistani province of Baluchistan.....Indus Valley and Indus River in Pakistan...Pakistan the home of Original silk route.........First University established in Pakistani Punjab at a place called Taxila....

imo Pakistan is one civilization 5000 years old and the best of central asia.

 

[Tiger Awan]

You don't have any idea what you are talking about, do you?

'Loyal' Muslim . Is Islam a political entity? But that's another discussion.

For you ti understand what this generation thing is, you have to understand caste system among Indian Muslims.
Ashrafs and Ajlafs
- sheiks, Pathans - Ashrafs claim ancestral roots. wherein one partner of the marriage is already Muslim and the other is non Muslim and convert before marriage.
- indigenous people - Ajlafs -coverts are different.
all these are endogamous and even today retain respective cultures. for instance, Ajlafs retain retain their Hindu caste names.

For you to understand the conversion process and why people don't leave Islam, you have to understand social pressures involved esp from the same caste group or ethnic group, for ex people and their respective communities lose their social and political standing if they change religion.

i am taking about leaving Islam not accepting Hinduism

they could have followed Christianity during British Raj. Some of them if not all