Ancient Harappan-era skeletons found in Haryana

[airuah]

If I had a tree in my garden over time it's branches are bound to spread out and few might go over the wall. Big deal. IVC also branched into Afghanistan. IVC only covers areas of India that are adjacent to Pakistan. 89% of India was untouched by it.

Did you know Egyptian civilization spread over into Libyia,South to sudan and possibly some influence even in Ethopia or Eritrea but that does not change the fact Egyptian civilization was Nile based in Egypt. Ditto IVC.

You can claim what you want. Go call it Ganga, Gujrat, Lothal, whatever. stop leaching like a bloody parasite on our land.

Sugggest: Call it Ganga Valley ???

If I had planted a tree in my garden and after a few years I gave away a part of my garden to a person X else, it does not mean that the person X planted the tree

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You suggest that it is 9000 year old hymn ? What proof do you have for this assertion ?

Hindu astrology. Repeating events during the Indian Neolithic. The inundation of coastal India during a great flood. All these come from written sources. The Shruti tradition goes even further back.

Marked by? Let me guess ASI. Great for you. Why not call it part of GVC. Ganges Valley Civilization? Why jump over to milch our land?

By historical standards, Pakistan simply does not exist. Artificial states created in the 20th century can't lay claim on history or pre-history.

If I had a tree in my garden over time it's branches are bound to spread out and few might go over the wall. Big deal. IVC also branched into Afghanistan. IVC only covers areas of India that are adjacent to Pakistan. 89% of India was untouched by it.

Did you know Egyptian civilization spread over into Libyia,South to sudan and possibly some influence even in Ethopia or Eritrea but that does not change the fact Egyptian civilization was Nile based in Egypt. Ditto IVC.

You can claim what you want. Go call it Ganga, Gujrat, Lothal, whatever. stop leaching like a bloody parasite on our land.

Sugggest: Call it Ganga Valley ???

We and the whole world knows what authentic historical research has been done by the Government of Pakistan in this matter. While we have continuously invested both time and money on it, Pakistan has done pretty much nothing for their 'prized historic possession'. We will call it what it is, we may rename it, name it, change it - because it is ours. Entirely and fully ours. East Prussia is now a Russian and Polish enclave, but the history attached to it is largely German and will remain so till the end of time. Your historians have engaged in revisionism that has resulted you being confined to the status of a pariah. You wish for a history that you hope is true, not what it really is.

In the Rig Veda, the collection of praises to the gods, the god Indra towers over the poetry as a conquering god, one that smashes cities and slays enemies. Most probably Indus Valley Civilization cities and town destroyed by the Aryans. The invading Aryans were originally nomadic peoples, not agricultural. They penetrated India from the north-west, settling first in the Indus valley. Unlike the Harappans, however, they eventually concentrated their populations along the Ganges floodplain. The Aryan settled in Ganges plain modern Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. The Ganges, unlike the Indus, is far milder and more predictable in its flooding. It must have been a paradise to a people from the dry steppes of central Asia and Iran, a paradise full of water and forest. When they arrived, the vast northern plains were almost certainly densely forested. Where now bare fields stretch to the horizon, when the Aryans arrived lush forests stretched to those very same horizons. Clearing the forests over the centuries was an epic project and one that is still preserved in Indian literature.

The depictions of Indra are purely metaphorical. There are verses that state him gobbling 1000 bulls and drowning out cities. If you wish to take all that literally, take these too. Consider him an overgrown mutant alien invader. Publish it in your historical journals so we can laugh at it.

 

[Hindustani78]

For gawds sake what is this? I post actual satelite imagery and you post a nursery school map? According to the map Lahore is on a hills. Are you kidding here ?

1. What the hell is 'post' Indus culture? Post means after that would mean anything after 'Indus' culture. does that include cultures in Africa as well because they came after?

2. Alluvial plain? How is that relevant in any way to discussion in hand?

Like I said before your doing what the Chinese do. Make forged copies and then brand them as 'German' or 'Japanes' to that the products get 'value added'. Your just using 'harappa' or 'Indus' as a sly way of leaching off them. This is what parasites do. They leach off others.

If you remove'Harappa' or Indus' whatever you have there are won't even fill one page.

and Arslan don't give these Indian's a excuse toi bring religious myths into this. If you do they will inundate us with so much myth your head is going to spin. They would give the mullah run for his money.

I have posted Archaeological Survey of India picture which shows the excavations done. Alamgripur in Uttar Pradesh is even part of Indus Valley and from there Ganga is not far just around 3 kms away.

 

[Mr.Nair]

Today what matters is that India is having rich cultural heritage and old civilization and once comes to pakistan, any historian in the world will say that it was part of India before,Period.

Not only indus civilization, india also have various dynasty way back to BC and have presence in srilanka,thailand,Indonesia,singapore,malaysia,maldives etc.

Chola dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pandyan Dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hindustani78]

Today what matters is that India is having rich cultural heritage and old civilization and once comes to pakistan, any historian in the world will say that it was part of India before,Period.

Not only indus civilization, india also have various dynasty way back to BC and have presence in srilanka,thailand,Indonesia,singapore,malaysia,maldives etc.

Chola dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pandyan Dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All those dynasties are part of Indian civilization.

 

[scorpionx]

Hindu astrology. Repeating events during the Indian Neolithic. The inundation of coastal India during a great flood. All these come from written sources. The Shruti tradition goes even further back.

You probably meant astronomy, I guess. The aitareya brahmana, as it has been claimed by a number of scholars like Tilak, Jacobi and Dikshit repeatedly mentions the Kṛttikā near the sun at the vernal equinox. Dikshit points out to a number of Brahamana hymns, where the pleiades is suggested to be on celestial equator during vernal equinox. According to Dikshit, the brightest star of this nakshatra could have been on celestial equator roughly around 2990 BCE, which as per Tilak dates nearly 2500 BCE.

 

[Armstrong]

You probably meant astronomy, I guess. The aitareya brahmana, as it has been claimed by a number of scholars like Tilak, Jacobi and Dikshit repeatedly mentions the Kṛttikā near the sun at the vernal equinox. Dikshit points out to a number of Brahamana hymns, where the pleiades is suggested to be on celestial equator during vernal equinox. According to Dikshit, the brightest star of this nakshatra could have been on celestial equator roughly around 2990 BCE, which as per Tilak dates nearly 2500 BCE.

You are in the wrong profession, my friend !

South Asia is missing out on a very good historian and archaeologist !

 

[farhan_9909]

i feel so sorry for the poor indians,they don't have any history in the current day india to be proud,now they are after our history.

Bichaare ghareeb indians

 

[MarkovChain]

i feel so sorry for the poor indians,they don't have any history in the current day india to be proud,now they are after our history.

Bichaare ghareeb indians

Yes indeed, Indians without a history trying to create a fake sense of identity but trying to associate itself with mighty Pakistan. I support your view that Pakistani's are pure breed Indus Valley people who remained distinct from the Aryans in spite of repeated persecution by them and when Islam showed up, immediately recognized their identity, converted and now are the torch bearers of Islam, also becoming an integral part of the Middle East in the process. It never participated in the vedic age or was influeced by the achaemenid empire (dirty Iranian shias!) or the Sikh empire.

Other important factual history lessons in Pakistani school textbooks:

The Std VIII book says, “Their (Muslim saints) teachings dispelled many superstitions of the Hindus and reformed their bad practices. Thereby Hindu religion of the olden times came to an end.”

On Indo-Pak wars, the books give detailed descriptions and openly eulogize “˜jihad’ and “˜shahadat’ and urge students to become “˜mujahids’ and martyrs and leave no room for future friendship and cordial relations with India.

According to a Class 5 book, “In 1965, the Pakistani army conquered several areas of India, and when India was on the point of being defeated, she requested the United Nations to arrange a ceasefire. After 1965, India, with the help of Hindus living in East Pakistan, instigated the people living there against the people of West Pakistan, and finally invaded East Pakistan in December 1971. The conspiracy resulted in the separation of East Pakistan from us. All of us should receive military training and be prepared to fight the enemy.”

The book prescribed for higher secondary students makes no mention of the uprising in East Pakistan in 1971 or the surrender by more than 90,000 Pakistani soldiers. Instead, it claims, “In the 1971 India-Pakistan war, the Pakistan armed forces created new records of bravery and the Indian forces were defeated everywhere.”

The students of Class 3 are taught that “Muhammad Ali (Jinnah) felt that Hindus wanted to make Muslims their slaves and since he hated slavery, he left the Congress”. At another place it says, “The Congress was actually a party of Hindus. Muslims felt that after getting freedom, Hindus would make them their slaves.”

And this great historic discovery is taught to Std V students, “Previously, India was part of Pakistan.” y

Smokers’ Corner: By the book - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

You are being redirected...

 

[Hindustani78]

Yes indeed, Indians without a history trying to create a fake sense of identity but trying to associate itself with mighty Pakistan. I support your view that Pakistani's are pure breed Indus Valley people who remained distinct from the Aryans in spite of repeated persecution by them and when Islam showed up, immediately recognized their identity, converted and now are the torch bearers of Islam, also becoming an integral part of the Middle East in the process. It never participated in the vedic age or was influeced by the achaemenid empire (dirty Iranian shias!) or the Sikh empire.

Other important factual history lessons in Pakistani school textbooks:

In reality even Arab tribes and clans are close to Indian nation. From Port of Porbandar, Gujarat to Port Sultan Qaboos, Oman its just 647 nautical miles.

The Minister of State for Petroleum and Natural Gas (Independent Charge), Shri Dharmendra Pradhan addressing at inauguration of the “Workshop on the India Energy Outlook”, organised by the IEA, in New Delhi on April 13, 2015.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You probably meant astronomy, I guess. The aitareya brahmana, as it has been claimed by a number of scholars like Tilak, Jacobi and Dikshit repeatedly mentions the Kṛttikā near the sun at the vernal equinox. Dikshit points out to a number of Brahamana hymns, where the pleiades is suggested to be on celestial equator during vernal equinox. According to Dikshit, the brightest star of this nakshatra could have been on celestial equator roughly around 2990 BCE, which as per Tilak dates nearly 2500 BCE.

Yeah the dates are around 3000 BC. But I am on a different mission here to amuse our Pakistani 'historians'.

Yes indeed, Indians without a history trying to create a fake sense of identity but trying to associate itself with mighty Pakistan. I support your view that Pakistani's are pure breed Indus Valley people who remained distinct from the Aryans in spite of repeated persecution by them and when Islam showed up, immediately recognized their identity, converted and now are the torch bearers of Islam, also becoming an integral part of the Middle East in the process. It never participated in the vedic age or was influeced by the achaemenid empire (dirty Iranian shias!) or the Sikh empire.

Other important factual history lessons in Pakistani school textbooks:


Smokers’ Corner: By the book - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

You are being redirected...

Good method.

 

[Whirling_dervesh]

By historical standards, Pakistan simply does not exist. Artificial states created in the 20th century can't lay claim on history or pre-history.

It may not exist in your hindu mindset, but that certainly couldn't be further than the truth. Pakistan is an acronym, for Punjab, Afghan, Kashmir, Indus and Sind. The "Tan" to represent Baluchistan. so effectively you are saying none of the above exist? that is ludicrous to suggest, considering these areas and their inhabitants were one of the cradles of earliest civilisations the world has known. Of course understandable coming from bharatis because that theory does not fit well in the hindutva paradigm, this great big monolithic hindu empire that existed from polytheistic arabia all the way to indonesia. that is one big fallacy and has takers only in bharat of the saffron type.

the fact is you people despise the word pakistan, why? because punjab,afghania,kashmir,indus,sind,baluchistan AKA P.A.K.I.S.T.A.N is the heir and owner of Soan,mehrgarh, harrapa, mohenjadaro, gandhara, the birthplace of rig veda, of the great sanskrit grammarian pannini and pingala and much much more. Unfortunately for bharatis it is pakistans ancient history we are the owners and the heirs to this great civilisation and there is sweet F all you can do about it.


We and the whole world knows what authentic historical research has been done by the Government of Pakistan in this matter. While we have continuously invested both time and money on it, Pakistan has done pretty much nothing for their 'prized historic possession'. We will call it what it is, we may rename it, name it, change it - because it is ours. Entirely and fully ours. East Prussia is now a Russian and Polish enclave, but the history attached to it is largely German and will remain so till the end of time. Your historians have engaged in revisionism that has resulted you being confined to the status of a pariah. You wish for a history that you hope is true, not what it really is.

Wishful thinking on your part, admittedly GOP neglected this badly but times they are a changing. more and more young pakistanis are reclaiming their history, and this is what worries people like you because you had it good for so long and thought you could get away with daylight robbery, your times up my friend

We and the whole world know what? if anything bharati revisionists are discredited the world over for concocting and conjuring lies to the suit their revisionist political and religious ideologies, anything from claiming to decipher the indus valley script to computer enhancements that claim the elusive 'Horse' on IVC seals which actually was a unicorn.

HORSEPLAY IN HARAPPA

 

[Hindustani78]

Kangale says that tribals should be allowed to study in their language.

On the margins: Championing Gond culture - The Hindu

Scholar says the neglect of their language and values keeps the tribes backward.
Every Dasara, huge Ravana figures are burnt in various parts of the country. The act is perceived as a triumph of good over evil. However, Ravana’s negative portrayal is not unanimously accepted across India. Many communities in central India, in particular the Gond tribe, venerate Ravana as Gade Raja, a figure they have been worshipping since ancient times.

Some Gonds even hold that Ravana’s stature needs to be popularised. In the 1970s, Motiram Kangale, spurred by this sentiment, participated in a movement demanding that the symbolic slaying of Ravana during Dasara be stopped. “Ravana has been worshipped by Gonds since ages. Ravan Dahan [burning] started only in 1833 on Raja Bakshi Maidan in Nagpur,” says Mr. Kangale, 67, a Gondi language scholar based in Nagpur.

The agitators sought legal recourse but nothing substantial came of the campaign. However, it left behind a mark on Mr. Kangale’s life, one that has defined his identity ever since. Once a journalist had asked Mr. Kangale why he still bore the name Motiram, a reference to Lord Ram. “I decided to change my name that very instant,” says Mr. Kangale, who then renamed himself Motiravan.

Students’ movement

Mr. Kangale, born into a family of farmers at Ramtek in Nagpur, had to travel out of his village for basic education. He was active in the students’ movement, and with a keen interest in the cultural history of his tribe, went on to study sociology, economics and linguistics. In 1973, he joined the Oil and Natural Gas Corporation in Mumbai as a labour officer. But he was soon pulled back to Nagpur, which gave him a vantage point to follow his main interest, the philosophical base of tribal culture and values in central India. He joined the Reserve Bank of India and retired in 2009 as Assistant Manager after 30 years of service.

“My work in Nagpur involved long field trips to parts of Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and Odisha. That really helped my research,” says Mr. Kangale.

He engaged in historical and archaeological study, and was well-appreciated for attempting to decipher the Harappan script in Gondi. Today, much of his time is spent on promoting and campaigning for the revival of Gondi language and Gond culture, of which he claims, little is known by his countrymen. Though a large population of Gonds live in central India, Gondi, the second largest spoken tribal language in the country, with at least 25-30 lakh speakers, lacks a working script.

Also, there is not a single government-appointed Gondi teacher in the country. “The concepts would be clearer in their mother tongue. Not being allowed to learn in their language is a big reason for the backwardness of the tribal people,” says Mr. Kangale.

Overturning these deficits has been Mr. Kangale’s pursuit, as he has compiled around two dozen publications on the socio-cultural and religious values of Gonds. He has helped standardise and preserve Gondi grammar and bring out Gondi dictionaries in Hindi, Marathi and English.

Historical account

His book Gondi Punamdarshan (dharm) provides a rich account of the cultural history of Gondwana, the land of the Gonds. For a community that believes in totems, the terminology (language) used alters emphasis of values, often diluting heritage. “If our gods are referred to as devta, they acquire an Aryan tone. Among Gonds, divinity has an animistic connotation. We refer to it as Pen [power]. If language and culture are lost, Gond values will also disintegrate,” Dr. Kangale says.

Gonds also feel they need to fight historical injustice as Gond areas were reorganised among other linguistic States after Independence — there was even a movement for a State of Gondwana.

 

[Hindustani78]

Ministry of Tribal Affairs
26-April, 2017 17:11 IST
NCST SEEKS Information on Fake ST Certificate

National Commission for Schedule Tribes (NCST) has asked Uttar Pradesh Government to furnish information on fake certificates of Gond tribal community. The Secretary, NCST in his letter to Chief Secretary, UP has said that it has been brought to the notice of the Commission that many persons from Nayak Brahman and Brahman Ojha community in Gorakhpur, Devaria, Maharajganj, Basti, Aajamgarh, Mau and Balia districts have obtained fake certificates of Gond tribal community to get Govt Jobs.

The Chief Secretary, UP has been asked to furnish the information of total population of ST community and percentage along with population and percentage of Gond community in the State. He has also been asked to furnish the details of the persons from Nayak Brahman and Brahman Ojha community who have been issued the certificates of Gond tribal community. The Commission has also asked that weather any civil or criminal action been taken against persons having fake certificates of Gond tribal community. The Commission has taken the cognizance of the issue on the representation from an NGO.

 

[Hindustani78]

The Minister of State for Culture and Tourism (Independent Charge), Dr. Mahesh Sharma and the Minister of State for Commerce & Industry (Independent Charge), Smt. Nirmala Sitharaman being brief upon the artefacts found at the archaeological excavation site, at Keeladi Village near Madurai on April 28, 2017.

The Minister of State for Culture and Tourism (Independent Charge), Dr. Mahesh Sharma and the Minister of State for Commerce & Industry (Independent Charge), Smt. Nirmala Sitharaman addressing the media after visiting the archaeological excavations site, at Keeladi Village near Madurai on April 28, 2017.