Ancient Egyptians were related to Ancient Middle Easterners

[Saif al-Arab]

Not surprised the least. Genetically (in terms of haplogroups) Arabia, North Africa and most of the Southern Mediterranean is identical in the sense that the same haplogroups (paternal and maternal) are found in all 3 areas. Just with slightly different frequencies.

Basically every single DNA test confirms that for instance Saudi Arabians and Egyptians cluster closely.

This spreadsheet which is much more detailed and from a much bigger sample also show the very close affinity as described before.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q1LKZqeQRS28WjwyAQPs5I7QBUWv3Q3mF9bVpJp6eX0/edit#gid=0

Y-Haplogroups:

Overall DNA/genome

Saudi Arabians and Egyptians are next to each other before anyone else.



Some results from your average Arabs (much larger samples too)

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/arabworlddnaproject/default.aspx?section=yresults

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/arabworlddnaproject/default.aspx?section=yresults

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/arab-tribes/about/background

Saudi Arabians:

Paleoafrican: 0% South Asian: 0% West Asian: 27,9% Southeast Asian: 0% Sub-Saharan: 0% Atlantic-Baltic: 0% Red Sea: 34,6% East Asian: 0% Mediterranean: 37.5% Siberian: 0%

Egyptians:

Paleoafrican: 0,6% South Asian: 0% West Asian: 24,4% Southeast Asian: 0,2% Sub-Saharan: 12,2% Atlantic-Baltic: 1% Red Sea: 24% East Asian: 0% Mediterranean: 37.5% Siberian: 0%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q1LKZqeQRS28WjwyAQPs5I7QBUWv3Q3mF9bVpJp6eX0/edit#gid=0

The sample was 12 Egyptians and 20 Saudi Arabians. So not 100% accurate but as I wrote earlier and as every single DNA tests shows, Saudi Arabians and Egyptians cluster with each other very, very closely in every DNA test that I have seen whether public or private. As far as haplogroups the two largest haplogroups in both countries and all Arab countries are J and E.

As far as maternal haplogroups the same ones are found in both KSA/Arabia and Egypt and much of the Arab world.

Same story with Sham (Levant, Mesopotamia and wider North Africa)

Here is an National Geographic one:

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/

The latter unfortunately does not have data from KSA but they have from Kuwait and if you compare Kuwait with Egypt they are very, very similar.

"EGYPTIAN

This reference population is based on samples collected from native Egyptians. As ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through southwest Asia. The 65% Mediterranean and 18% Southwest Asian components in Egypt are representative of that ancient migratory route, as well as later migrations from the Fertile Crescent in the Middle East with the spread of agriculture over the past 10,000 years, and migrations in the 7th century with the spread of Islam from the Arabian peninsula. The 14% sub-Saharan African indicates intermixing with African populations to the south."

"KUWAITI

This reference population is based on samples collected from native Kuwaitis and reflects the great genetic diversity of this region, as it was a crossroads for several migratory groups. As some ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through Southwest Asia en route to the rest of Eurasia. Some populations stayed in the Middle East and southwestern Asia, over time developing unique genetic patterns. The 57% Mediterranean and 27% Southwest Asian components found in our reference Kuwaiti population reflect these ancient patterns. The 4% Northern European percentage is representative of some interaction with European populations, either via populations to the northwest or from migrations through the steppe zone to the northeast. The 2% Northeast Asian component likely arrived via the migrations of groups originating in that region, such as the Turks and Mongols. The Silk Road also may have served to disperse east Asian genetic patterns further to the west. Finally, the 8% sub-Saharan African component reflects the relatively close proximity of Kuwait to Africa, and may have been increased by the Arab slave trade during the 8th-19th centuries."

KSA would be even closer to Egypt due to simple geography and the very close ties between Hijaz (most populous region of KSA) and Egypt.

Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa​

"In a recent publication, Bosch et al. (2001) reported on Y-chromosome variation in populations from northwestern (NW) Africa and the Iberian peninsula. They observed a high degree of genetic homogeneity among the NW African Y chromosomes of Moroccan Arabs, Moroccan Berbers, and Saharawis, leading the authors to hypothesize that “the Arabization and Islamization of NW Africa, starting during the 7th century ad, … [were] cultural phenomena without extensive genetic replacement” (p. 1023). H71 (Eu10) was found to be the second-most-frequent haplogroup in that area. Following the hypothesis of Semino et al. (2000), the authors suggested that this haplogroup had spread out from the Middle East with the Neolithic wave of advance. Our recent findings (Nebel et al. 2000, 2001), however, suggest that the majority of Eu10 chromosomes in NW Africa are due to recent gene flow caused by the migration of Arabian tribes in the first millennium of the Common Era (ce).

In the sample of NW Africans (Bosch et al. 2001), 16 (9.1%) of the 176 Y chromosomes studied were of Eu10 (H71 on a haplogroup 9 background). Of these 16 chromosomes, 14 formed a compact microsatellite network: 7 individuals shared a single haplotype, and the haplotypes of the other 7 were one or two mutational steps removed. This low diversity may be indicative of a recent founder effect. Where did these chromosomes come from?

The highest frequency of Eu10 (30%–62.5%) has been observed so far in various Moslem Arab populations in the Middle East (Semino et al. 2000; Nebel et al. 2001). The most frequent Eu10 microsatellite haplotype in NW Africans is identical to a modal haplotype (DYS19-14, DYS388-17, DYS390-23, DYS391-11, DYS392-11, DYS393-12) of Moslem Arabs who live in a small area in the north of Israel, the Galilee (Nebel et al. 2000). This haplotype, which is present in the Galilee at 18.5%, was termed the modal haplotype of the Galilee (MH Galilee) (Nebel et al. 2000). Notably, it is absent from two distinct non-Arab Middle Eastern populations, Jews and Muslim Kurds, both of whom have significant Eu10 frequencies—18% and 12%, respectively (Nebel et al. 2001). Interestingly, this modal haplotype is also the most frequent haplotype (11 [∼41%] of 27 individuals) in the population from the town of Sena, in Yemen (Thomas et al. 2000). Its single-step neighbor is the most common haplotype of the Yemeni Hadramaut sample (5 [∼10%] of 49 chromosomes; Thomas et al. 2000). The presence of this particular modal haplotype at a significant frequency in three separate geographic locales (NW Africa, the Southern Levant, and Yemen) makes independent genetic-drift events unlikely.

It should be noted that the Yemeni samples (Thomas et al. 2000) were not typed for the binary markers (p12f2 and M172) that define Eu10. However, both Yemeni modal haplotypes are present on a haplogroup background compatible with Eu10. These haplotypes carry a DYS388 allele with a high number of repeats (i.e., 17). High repeat numbers of DYS388, ⩾15, were found to occur almost exclusively on Hg9, which comprises Eu9 and Eu10. Furthermore, in a sample of a six Middle Eastern populations, chromosomes with 17 repeats are frequent (40%) in Eu10 and rare (7%) in Eu9 (Nebel et al. 2001).

The term “Arab,” as well as the presence of Arabs in the Syrian desert and the Fertile Crescent, is first seen in the Assyrian sources from the 9th century bce (Eph'al 1984). Originally referring to nomads of central and northern Arabia, the term “Arabs” later came to include the sedentary population of the south, which had its own language and culture. The term thus covers two different stocks that became linguistically and culturally unified yet retained consciousness of their discrete origins (Grohmann et al. 1960; Rentz 1960; Caskel 1966, pp. 19–47; Goldziher 1967, pp. 45–97, 164–190; Beeston 1995; also see Peters 1999). Migrations of southern Arabian tribes northwards have been recorded mainly since the 3d century ce. These tribes settled in various places in central and northern Arabia, as well as in the Fertile Crescent, including areas that are now part of Israel (Dussaud 1955; Ricci 1984). The emergence of Islam in the 7th century ce furthered the unification of the Arabian tribal populations. This unified Arab-Islamic community engaged in a large movement of expansion, the Fertile Crescent and Egypt being the first areas to have been conquered. It is very difficult to trace the tribal composition of the Muslim armies, but it is known that tribes of Yemeni origin formed the bulk of those Muslim contingents that conquered Egypt in the middle of the 7th century ce. Egypt was the primary base for raids further west into the Maghrib. The conquest of North Africa was difficult and took a few decades to complete (Abun-Nasr 1987). The region was militarily and administratively attached to Egypt until the beginning of the 8th century ce. Arab tribes of northern origin entered North Africa as well, both as troops and as migrants. A major wave of migration of such tribes, the Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym, occurred during the 11th century ce (Abun-Nasr 1987). Thus, the Arabs, both southern (Yemeni) and northern, added to the heterogeneous Maghribi ethnic melting pot.

Little is known of the origins of the indigenous population of the Maghrib, the Berbers, except that they have always been a composite people. After the 8th century ce, a process of Arabization affected the bulk of the Berbers, while the Arab-Islamic culture and population absorbed local elements as well. Under the unifying framework of Islam, on the one hand, and as a result of the Arab settlement, on the other, a fusion took place that resulted in a new ethnocultural entity all over the Maghrib. In addition, Berber tribes sometimes claimed Arab descent in order to enhance their prestige. For example, the Berber nomadic tribe of the western Sahara, the Lamtuna, claimed descent from one of the South Arabian eponyms, Himyar. One of the chiefs of this Berber tribe, Lamtuna, is sometimes referred to as Saharawi, meaning “one of the nomads” or “one who comes from the Sahara” (Ibn al-Athir 1898, p. 462; Ibn Khallikan 1972, pp. 113, 128–129; Lewicki 1986). In Arabic sources, however, the name Saharawi is seldom used and does not seem to refer to a specific genealogical group. In light of these historical data, it is not surprising to find, among the Berbers and contemporary Saharawis of northern Africa, Y chromosomes that may have been introduced by recurrent waves of invaders from the Arabian Peninsula.

These documented historical events, together with the finding of a particular Eu10 haplotype in Yemenis, Palestinians, and NW Africans, are suggestive of a recent common origin of these chromosomes. Remarkably, the only non-Arabs in whom this haplotype has been observed to date are the Berbers (Bosch et al. 2001). It appears that the Eu10 chromosome pool in NW Africa is derived not only from early Neolithic dispersions but also from recent expansions from the Arabian peninsula.

American Society of Human Genetics"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC379148/

Also I was not aware of their being an "Arab" or "North African" genome considering the fact that all haplogroups predate all living ethnic groups by millennia and given that all ethnic groups are social constructs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA)

Basically across the entire Arab world (which shares a millennia long common Semitic and Afro-Asiatic history and ancestry that predates the Neolithic period and all existing ethnic groups in the Arab world) the same haplogroups are found. The only difference is their frequency but Arabs cluster with each other more than any other people on all genetic tests which is not strange given history.

Genetics

Haplogroup J and E1b1b are the most frequent Y-DNA haplogroups in the Arab world. E1b1b is the most frequent paternal clade among the populations in the western part of the Arab world (Maghreb, Nile Valley and Horn of Africa), whereas haplogroup J is the most frequent paternal clade toward the east (Arabian peninsula and Near East). Other less common haplogroups are R1a, R1b, G, I, L and T.[304][305][306][307][308][309][310][311][312][313][314][315][316]


J-M267

J-M172

E-M215

Listed here are the human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups in Arabian peninsula, Mashriq/Levant, Maghreb and Nile Valley.[317][318][319][320][321][322][323] Yemeni Arabs J(82.3%), E1b1b (12.9%) and E1b1a (3.2%).[324][325] Saudi Arabs J1 (58%), E1b1b(7.6%), E1b1a (7.6%), R1a (5.1%), T (5.1%), G (3.2%) and L (1.9%).[326][327] Emirati Arabs J (45.1%), E1b1b (11.6%), R1a (7.3%), E1b1a (5.5%), T (4.9%), R1b (4.3%) and L (3%).[324] Omani Arabs J (47.9%), E1b1b (15.7%), R1a (9.1%), T (8.3%), E1b1a (7.4%), R1b (1.7%), G (1.7%) and L (0.8%).[328] Qatari Arabs J (66.7%), R1a (6.9%), E1b1b (5.6%), E1b1a (2.8%), G (2.8%) and L (2.8%).[329][330] Lebanese Arabs J (45.2%), E1b1b (25.8%), R1a (9.7%), R1b (6.4%), G, I and I (3.2%), (3.2%), (3.2%).[331] Syrian Arabs J (58.3%),[332][333] E1b1b (12.0%), I (5.0%), R1a (10.0%) and R1b 15.0%.[331][333] Palestinian Arabs J (55.2%), E1b1b (20.3%), R1b (8.4%), I(6.3%), G (7%), R1a and T (1.4%), (1.4%).[334][335] Jordanian Arabs J (43.8%), E1b1b (26%), R1b (17.8%), G (4.1%), I (3.4%) and R1a (1.4%).[336] Iraqi Arabs J (50.6%), E1b1b (10.8%), R1b (10.8%), R1a (6.9%) and T (5.9%).[337][338] Egyptian Arabs E1b1b (36.7%) and J (32%), G (8.8%), T (8.2% R1b (4.1%), E1b1a (2.8%) and I(0.7%).[319][339] Sudanese Arabs J (47.1%), E1b1b (16.3%), R1b (15.7%) and I (3.13%).[340][341] Moroccan Arabs E1b1b (75.5%) and J1 (20.4%).[342][343] Tunisian ArabsE1b1b (49.3%), J1 (35.8%), R1b (6.8%) and E1b1a (1.4%).[344] Algerian Arabs E1b1b (54%), J1 (35%), R1b (13%).[344] Libyan Arabs E1b1b (35.88%), J (30.53%), E1b1a (8.78%), G (4.20%), R1a/R1b (3.43%) and E (1.53%).[345][346]

The mtDNA haplogroup J has been observed at notable frequencies among overall populations in the Arab world.[347] The maternal clade R0 reaches its highest frequency in the Arabian peninsula,[348] while K and T(specifically subclade T2) is more common in the Levant.[347] In the Nile Valley and Horn of Africa, haplogroups N1and M1;[348] in the Maghreb, haplogroups H1 and U6 are more significant.[349]

There are four principal West Eurasian autosomal DNA components that characterize the populations in the Arab world: the Arabian, Levantine, Coptic and Maghrebi components.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs#Genetics

So in short ancient Egyptians and ancient modern-day Arab populations were closely related millennia ago. Long before their past and current identities were constructed. This closeness was cemented further after the rise of Islam. The only thing that changed was the influx of Afro-Arabs. However in Egypt there was a pre-Afro-Arab Black population in the form of Nubians that inhabit Southern Egypt. This is just another confirmation out of many.

@EgyptianAmerican @Gomig-21 @The SC @Ahmad Torky

 

[Srinivas]

The research is claiming they were ancient Middle's Easterners, not Europeans. I think it's quite plausible, given the depth of interaction between Egypt and ancient Middle Easterners like Hyksos, Babylonians, Assyrians, etc, and the difficulty of crossing the Sahara in antiquity.

They are also mentioning a link to Neolithic people of Anatolian region, Europe.

 

[Gomig-21]

There are four principal West Eurasian autosomal DNA components that characterize the populations in the Arab world: the Arabian, Levantine, Coptic and Maghrebi components.

So in short ancient Egyptians and ancient modern-day Arab populations were closely related millennia ago. Long before their past and current identities were constructed. This closeness was cemented further after the rise of Islam. The only thing that changed was the influx of Afro-Arabs. However in Egypt there was a pre-Afro-Arab Black population in the form of Nubians that inhabit Southern Egypt. This is just another confirmation out of many.

@EgyptianAmerican @Gomig-21 @The SC @Ahmad Torky

What a terrific post, Sharif brother. Can't add much to what you outlined.

Sorry I didn't receive the tag, seems to be happening recently but don't give up, somehow I'll find them. Or maybe the tag system will work again.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

What a terrific post, Sharif brother. Can't add much to what you outlined.

Sorry I didn't receive the tag, seems to be happening recently but don't give up, somehow I'll find them. Or maybe the tag system will work again.

It is my pleasure brother. The truth cannot be hidden and propagandists must be tackled if necessary. However our Egyptian brothers and sisters are already doing a good job of that. If needed I can assist as will many others, lol.

 

[NoOne'sBoy]

Are you saying that I am genetically related to Central Asians and Eastern Europeans?

 

[Aramagedon]

Egyptians are a way more related to Greeks and South europens than Arabs.

J2 and J1 are different.


J1 DNA origin is Caucasus.

The first J1 men lived in the Late Upper Paleolithic, shortly before the end of the last Ice Age. The oldest identified J1 sample to date comes from Satsurblia cave (c. 13200 BCE) in Georgia (Jones et al. (2015)), placing the origins of haplogroup J1 in all likelihood in the region around the Caucasus, Zagros, Taurus and eastern Anatolia during the Upper Paleolithic.

Like many other successful lineages from the Middle East, J1 is thought to have undergone a major population expansion during the Neolithic period. Chiaroni et al. (2010) found that the greatest genetic diversity of J1 haplotypes was found in eastern Anatolia, near Lake Van in central Kurdistan. Eastern Anatolia and the Zagros mountains are the region where goats and sheep were first domesticated, some 11,000 years ago. Chiaroni et al. estimated that J1-P58 started expanding 9,000 to 10,000 years ago as pastoralists from the Fertile Crescent. Although they did not analyze the other branches, it is likely that all surviving J1a1b (L136) lineages share the same origin as goat and sheep herders from the Taurus and Zagros mountains.

J2 and I are spread from Iran.

The oldest known J2a samples at present were identified in remains from the Hotu Cave in northern Iran, dating from 9100-8600 BCE (Lazaridis et al. 2016), and from Kotias Klde in Georgia, dating from 7940-7600 BCE (Jones et al. (2015)). This confirms that haplogroup J2 was already found around the Caucasus and the southern Caspian region during the Mesolithic period. The first appearance of J2 during the Neolithic came in the form of a 10,000 year-old J2b sample from Tepe Abdul Hosein in north-western Iran in what was then the Pre-Pottery Neolithic (Broushaki et al. 2016).

G DNA map:

R1 DNA map:

Long live Persians, the conquerors of the world.

 

[El Sidd]

Can anyone explain me the Ancient Egyptian language as seen on the Pyramids?
Like Origin or if there are people who somehow speak that?
The Rosetta stone is not helping me.
Thanks

 

[Gothic]

As opposed to if they were not .