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Featured Anatolian Eagle 2021 - JF-17 To Pitch Against Rafale and Vipers

Any dual seater Jf-17 thunder?
It's been reported that 5 Thunders have gone for the excerise.

Judging by the image (above), none of them have the tilted Vertical Stabilizer that of the B-variant.
 
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So this is how the Indian dilemma is now complete.

IAF Top of the line aircraft.
1 : SU-30
.............PAF has had plenty of experience in exercises and otherwise with PLAAF versions.
2 : Mirage-2000.....PAF has exercised with Qatari and UAEAF aircrafts.
3 : Rafales .........Earlier PAF had exercised with French types and now will mix it with Qatari jets.
4 : MiG-29.......Azerbaijan is fielding their Fulcrums in Anatolian Eagle-2021.
 
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I didn’t know about your previous posts, but Your current argument is also not true as you’re going to the opposite extreme, you’re counting all the roles JF-17 was never made to perform and then calling it a bad fighter, but you don’t look at the roles it can perform very well for a fraction of the cost of a similar fighter. You also forget that half of the enemy fleet will never see combat against Pakistan because they’ll be deployed to counter China. You forget that our F-16s were modernized. You forget that the PAF obviously realizes this and will get another, larger fighter to support then JF. You forget the enemies inability to use their aircraft properly. You forget all the advantages that come from having a local aircraft, no matter how “bad” it is.

Deep strikes are impossible on both india and Pakistan due to the AD and AF capabilities of both sides, you could not dream of striking Delhi or Islamabad with F35s let alone JF-17s. BTW…your “only an interceptor” carried our 3 strikes on 27th February without a single loss and 100% success.

PAF has always been smaller and less capable on paper, just like PA, but in every war we’re shown how that doesn’t matter as much as people think, and this is by no miracle of will, it’s because the numerical and technical advantage exists only on paper, once we get to an actual conflict there’s enough factors to cancel that out, but that’s another long winded discussion. Bottom line is, Things are a lot less bleak than your numbers will claim. which again can never tell the full story of an aircraft. And please stop looking at air shows to decide how agile an aircraft is, that is not a good indication of anything. Nor is your deduction of “weak engine” and “too low fuel capacity” a demerit to a light aircraft that doesn’t need as much of either as a larger aircraft… It’s fuel is limited by its size and role, which has steadily increased in new blocks (also A2A refueling) and engine is currently limited out of necessity (93MA and WS-13…)

I also completely disagree with the people who say the JF-17 is even close to a a Rafale or even an F-16 in capability, or the ones that still claim F7PGs or mirages are good aircraft, because they often try to make it sound like we’re using them by choice and not out of absolute necessity of being a poor country. They’re usually delusional patriots too. (Plus All of these reports from exercises are usually BS hyperbole, every Air Force claims their MiG-21s shot down F35s in every exercises, but I don’t think the French were trying to make us feel better after they “kicked the assess” of our mirages. More than likely they were not expecting such an old aircraft to do even as well as it did, even if it did nothing special)

A single JF-17 is NOT a better aircraft than a Rafale. But if you had an equal amount of money to spend then the JF-17 is Definitely better than a Rafale for PAF because 5:1 will always mean superiority. But JF-17 isn’t the only aircraft PAF does and will operate and the Rafale isn’t the only aircraft IAF does and will operate. PAF doesn’t need to be nearly as big and as capable to counter the IAF due to the dozens of external factors. And IAF is the only Air Force we need to worry about, so why should we worry about being better than some other Air Force?

I’m not a person who believes in nationalistic hyperbole about our military equipment, it’s good to call a spade a spade. But Pakistanis have a habit of going to the two extremes of something being the absolute best or the absolute worst. That’s why I ask you to be realistic. But we’re getting way off topic so it’s best to carry out this discussion elsewhere now.

On an unrelated note, Deltas are not an outdated design, the EF and Rafale are both delta-wing aircraft. So is the Thunder…granted not of the same types. He flew on F-16s, of course he found the mirage to be inferior, it’s an old aircraft.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, you are also accusing me of stuff I have not said or meant. Such as I never said JF17 is a bad jet, I never said deltas are old design in fact they are pretty good with right engines and canards, I am not taking any extreme, situation is not bleak but not great either as its often proudly claimed. I can pick out several points and contest them, but I'd leave it. We don't have much disagreement, other than some minor points that I can debate on but no need to. You have kind of taken offense to some of my comments it seems, I haven't 😋 , I'd just move on. Too much work to respond on minor things.
 
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So this is how the Indian dilemma is now complete.

IAF Top of the line aircraft.
1 : SU-30
.............PAF has had plenty of experience in exercises and otherwise with PLAAF versions.
2 : Mirage-2000.....PAF has exercised with Qatari and UAEAF aircrafts.
3 : Rafales .........Earlier PAF had exercised with French types and now will mix it with Qatari jets.
4 : MiG-29.......Azerbaijan is fielding their Fulcrums in Anatolian Eagle-2021.

What about Tejas?
 
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In case you haven't noticed,
The link is not exactly a report filed by the French journalist on post exercise, it's for you to understand that an exercise involving the types did materialised back in 2006. You can find the report on the French carriers journey and the exercises it did with various Air forces in some edition of AFM including with Indian Sea Harriers.
And you have no personal experience and only quoting left right and centre.
No one expected Mirages to out flank the Rafales but they proved a worthy adversely.
At the end of the day, Mirages could boast of years of combat experience and several air victories while the Rafale has perhaps some Tanks and Guns under its belt.

Most respectfully air chief marshal sb! 🙂

I know, exercises keep happening. Never denied it.

If you have flown Mirages or JFs please let me know I will heavily weigh your opinion then, will consider you an asset for this forum and will grill you for more knowledge.
I do think almost every one of us here has acquired knowledge from reading rather than flying jets.

IMO same as saying an old 1960s Citroin or Peuguet car will surprisingly keep up with brand new ones because of the "years of experience" these cars have on road. These are cliché statements said by some ex-pilots, ex-military men, feel good stuff. Doesn't mean much in real. I believe such statements, although being said in patriotism and good intentions, hurt national defense and interest. We should be objective and say things as they are.
 
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What about Tejas?
I guess we must acquire some futuristic platform to counter the next generation threat.

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So this is how the Indian dilemma is now complete.

IAF Top of the line aircraft.
1 : SU-30
.............PAF has had plenty of experience in exercises and otherwise with PLAAF versions.
2 : Mirage-2000.....PAF has exercised with Qatari and UAEAF aircrafts.
3 : Rafales .........Earlier PAF had exercised with French types and now will mix it with Qatari jets.
4 : MiG-29.......Azerbaijan is fielding their Fulcrums in Anatolian Eagle-2021.
Pakistan evaluated the Flanker long before the Indians did. So on a lighter note, that dilemma has been there since the early 1990s.....
 
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Most respectfully air chief marshal sb! 🙂

I know, exercises keep happening. Never denied it.

If you have flown Mirages or JFs please let me know I will heavily weigh your opinion then, will consider you an asset for this forum and will grill you for more knowledge.
I do think almost every one of us here has acquired knowledge from reading rather than flying jets.

IMO same as saying an old 1960s Citroin or Peuguet car will surprisingly keep up with brand new ones because of the "years of experience" these cars have on road. These are cliché statements said by some ex-pilots, ex-military men, feel good stuff. Doesn't mean much in real. I believe such statements, although being said in patriotism and good intentions, hurt national defense and interest. We should be objective and say things as they are.
Janab, i have absolutely no experience in the aircraft you mentioned or for that matter in any other types alas i never make such sweeping statements like Rafale is the best thing since sliced bread or that JF-17 will return on crutches, however someone with vast experience in flying and having led the PAF recently did disclose that it held more than it's own against some latest types in PLAAF.
Mirage maybe a 60s era technology although it still has a few surprises up it's sleeve but surely if you consider Rafale as a Merc then the Thunder is not just a Mazda. :D
 
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What about Tejas?

The samosa is still in the fryer after 20+ years, their taking the term "cooked well done" a little to far, lol.

Janab, i have absolutely no experience in the aircraft you mentioned or for that matter in any other types alas i never make such sweeping statements like Rafale is the best thing since sliced bread or that JF-17 will return on crutches, however someone with vast experience in flying and having led the PAF recently did disclose that it held more than it's own against some latest types in PLAAF.
Mirage maybe a 60s era technology although it still has a few surprises up it's sleeve but surely if you consider Rafale as a Merc then the Thunder is not just a Mazda. :D

@Windjammer General question about the Mirage's I've had for awhile is that the Mirage is an aged jet, why hasn't PAF ever went the route of obtaining it's blueprints and built it's own copies at home, and beef them up with newer engine CFTs, Avionics and Sensors as this platform can serve very well in a bomber or Air-to-Air role.
 
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@Windjammer General question about the Mirage's I've had for awhile is that the Mirage is an aged jet, why hasn't PAF ever went the route of obtaining it's blueprints and built it's own copies at home, and beef them up with CFTs, Avionics and Sensors as this platform can serve very well in a bomber role.

I understand that in 70s there were some serious negotiations between France and Pakistan about setting up a Mirage assembly plant in Pakistan as lot of Arab countries were ordering the type....but like the processing plant this also fell through....there is only so much you can add or improve on the old design....Israel and South Africa made their own versions based on the Mirage-5......even they didn't have the CFTs.
 
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I understand that in 70s there were some serious negotiations between France and Pakistan about setting up a Mirage assembly plant in Pakistan as lot of Arab countries were ordering the type....but like the processing plant this also fell through....there is only so much you can add or improve on the old design....Israel and South Africa made their own versions based on the Mirage-5......even they didn't have the CFTs.

Didn't know that part of history --
Sadly, it fell through or we'd be on a different level all together.
 
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I agree with a lot of what you are saying, you are also accusing me of stuff I have not said or meant. Such as I never said JF17 is a bad jet, I never said deltas are old design in fact they are pretty good with right engines and canards, I am not taking any extreme, situation is not bleak but not great either as its often proudly claimed. I can pick out several points and contest them, but I'd leave it. We don't have much disagreement, other than some minor points that I can debate on but no need to. You have kind of taken offense to some of my comments it seems, I haven't 😋 , I'd just move on. Too much work to respond on minor things.
No worries brother, sorry if I came off a little strong, my bad. Thanks for keeping it Civil, it is a discussion forum after all so every opinion is appreciated, I agree with a lot of what you say too, just my misunderstanding. Let’s carry on with the threads topic from now :)
 
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