What's new

ANALYSIS: Terrorism and the denial problem —Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi

1. Never heard of him before, so he seems respected to you as his opinion appeals to you.

2. Intolerance to what? The author speaks about non-muslims. But that's completely false. He is using the terrorists and extremists to extrapolate a hypothesis about the whole population. Extremism, sure, it is a problem.

3. Pakistan denies that extremism is a problem? It certainly does not. On the other hand, intolerance is very little and only there due to the extremist elements, which need to be taken care of.

4. Well that's sort of a case of telling others that this is the only truth and any other explanation is false. I do not believe US is involved, Israeli involvement is plausible, however Indian involvement is for sure.

5. Terrorism is a bigger issue and Rizvi does not seem to know the roots of terrorism.

Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi is a very much Internationally respected Independent political and defence analyst, and like a growing number of Pakistani Intelligentsia, is now seeing the light and "Telling It Like It Is". Please check at the following Link :

Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi

Hasan-Askari Rizvi is an independent political and defense analyst. He was Visiting Professor of Pakistan Studies at Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs (SIPA) from January 1996 to July 1999, and the Allama Iqbal Professor at Heidelberg University, Germany from 1988 to 1991. Until 2001, he was a Professor of Political Science at the Punjab University, Lahore, Pakistan.

Rizvi obtained his M.A. and Ph.D. in Political Science and International Relations from the University of Pennsylvania, and an M.Phil. in Politics from the University of Leeds, UK.
 
.
amazing article. this guy has woken up quite late. many of the military operations have already reached their conclusion and if i remember correctly all these operations enjoyed massive public support. on this forum alone we have separate section called 'Pakistan's war' and if you go through it you will only find terrorism related threads.
about the religious leaders, well almost all the main stream leaders have given verdict against taliban and terrorism. if he is worried about Jamate islami, well they hardly get any vote from people of pakistan.

very disappointing article. oooo i forgot, he has already predicted we will behave lik this. my tough luck :(
 
.
As summarised by the writer "" As long as covert support and sympathy for militancy and jihadi culture is present in Punjab, it is going to be an uphill task to get rid of religious extremism and militancy."" and i guess this is the whole point of this article
 
.
Very true but as stated by the author, it would be denied by the Pakistani members.

Pakistani people don't realize the seriousness of the situation and the complications that they will have to face with in the coming years.

10 years back, we said that Pak is playing with a dangerous weapon and it might back fire. Today it is backfiring.

Today the whole world is saying that if Pak continues to use this weapon, its existence might be at stake. At least now Pak members should understand the seriousness of the issue.

Religious extremism is no answer.

In 80's Afghan Jehad started to stop Russian aggression , in this jehad 50000 Arab mujahdeen and 100000 Afghan and Pushtoons were trained by CIA/ISI.We can not say that Pakistan was playing with dangerous weapon , it was also war of Pakistan.

In 2001 , US invaded Afghanistan , now theses Afghan mujahdeen are fighting without support of Pakistan.

Insurgency in SWAT and Waziristan is internal issue developed when Musharaf started operation in 2003 under US threat ,which was wrong decision and the US drones also created anger and hatred in local tribes.

I think GOP should resolve this issue by talks , use of power is not long term solution.
 
.
ANALYSIS: Terrorism and the denial problem —Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi



The most serious threat to Pakistan’s political stability and economic development is the growing terrorist attacks by the various Taliban groups and other militant Islamic groups that use violence to pursue their narrow-based religious and political agendas

Pakistan’s societal harmony and political stability is threatened by the complex challenges of religious intolerance, Islamic-sectarian violence, militancy and jihadi culture against the backdrop of the regional and global environment that is not always helpful. These domestic ailments have compromised Pakistan’s capacity to cope with global pressures and improve its bargaining position in international diplomacy.

Pakistan’s most serious handicap is its troubled economy, which depends heavily on economic assistance from international financial institutions and other countries, especially Western countries, including the US. It faces acute problems both at the macro and micro levels, with growing economic pressures on the common people due to inflation, corruption and power shortages. Further, religious extremism and terrorism have dissuaded foreign investors from bringing their capital into Pakistan. Several Pakistani investors have shifted a part or all of their economic activity to the Gulf States, which has adversely affected Pakistan’s economy and weakened its links with the global economy.

In addition to the problems of the economy, Pakistan’s internal harmony and stability are threatened by Islamic-sectarian violence and terrorist attacks in different cities. This type of violence causes serious human and material losses and threatens economic prospects. Suicide attacks and bombings also cause insecurity among the people and weaken their confidence in the government.

The main sources of Pakistan’s current troubles are internal. Religious intolerance has caused social and cultural distortions in Pakistan. This builds societal pressures on non-Muslim citizens who face violent threats from various hardline Islamic groups and the state is often unable to protect them.

Sectarian violence has increased because religious intolerance denies the pluralist nature of Muslim societies. The activists of different sectarian groups fight gang wars with each other. Denominational differences do not adversely affect the day-to-day interaction among ordinary people who live in mixed neighbourhoods.

Sectarian violence is initiated by hardline religious-sectarian groups and their diehard supporters, who also subscribe to the jihadi culture. There were serious incidents of Shia-Sunni violence in December and February in Karachi. The most unfortunate incident took place on the eve of the birth anniversary of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) when the followers of the Deobandi/Wahabi Islamic tradition clashed with the followers of the Barelvi tradition who had taken out a festive procession on that occasion. It is noteworthy that the students of a madrassa blocked the route of the procession, which resulted in violence. Earlier this month, some religious leaders with known links with a banned sectarian organisation were killed in a daylight assault in Karachi.

The most serious threat to Pakistan’s political stability and economic development is the growing terrorist attacks by the various Taliban groups and other militant Islamic groups that use violence to pursue their narrow-based religious and political agendas.

Pakistani state and society are threatened by reckless violence bred by the Pakistani Taliban, other militant groups based in the tribal areas, and sectarian and jihadi organisations based in Punjab and Sindh. The Taliban launch suicide attacks and bombings in and around government installations and places of public use, including mosques. They also execute their adversaries in public and throw their dead bodies to terrorise people and destroy schools, especially those for girls.

Pakistan’s civilian and military authorities have been taking tough action against them since the last week of April 2009, when they initiated a comprehensive security operation in Swat, followed by a similar operation in South Waziristan in October. Currently, the security forces are engaged in similar operations in other tribal agencies, especially in Orakzai, Kurram, Khyber and Bajaur.

Despite such a massive challenge of religious extremism and terrorism, a large section of politically active people do not fully comprehend the lethality of this threat. The conservative and orthodox Islamic groups and the political rightists are suffering from varying degrees of denial of this threat.

Most of them are not prepared to admit that they have a very simplistic view of the complex security situation in Pakistan. They would condemn terrorism and the killing of innocent people. However, if you ask them to condemn the Taliban or other militant groups, either they do not blame the Taliban and other militant groups or try to sympathise with their cause.

There are religious leaders who argue that the agents of Pakistan’s foreign adversaries and criminals engage in terrorist attacks and that the ‘genuine’ Taliban are not involved in such activities. They argue that the Taliban are true Muslims and friends of Pakistan and that no Muslim can engage in violence.


Some openly name India, Israel and the US for sponsoring terrorism in order to destabilise Pakistan.


The ‘foreign devil’ argument is based on the Islamic discourse propagated during and after the years of General Zia’s rule.

The Pakistani state socialised young people in regular educational institutions and through the media in Islamic orthodoxy and militancy. Therefore, the minds of a large number of people are receptive to what Islamic hardline leaders and leaders of the jihadi groups argue: that the whole world is determined to destroy the Muslims and Islam. They have a dichotomised view of domestic and global politics: we, the Muslims versus they, the enemies of Islam.

Such a state of mind develops sympathy for the Taliban and other militant Islamic groups, especially those engaged in fighting the Indian troops in Kashmir. The Islamic groups and militants play up the Kashmir issue and anti-India sentiments to sustain their support in society.

The denial problem afflicts the official civilian and military circles where the people at the lower echelons are not fully convinced that the Taliban can be held responsible for Pakistan’s current predicament. A popular theme with the Punjab government is the denial of existence of the Punjabi Taliban, i.e. a conglomerate of jihadi and sectarian groups. Some Urdu newspaper columnists have argued that talk of the Punjabi Taliban is to create a pretext for military action in Punjab. A Lahore-based Urdu newspaper argued in its editorial on March 21, 2010 that the government should stop using the Pakistan Army against the Afghan Taliban, pull back troops from the tribal areas and post them on the troubled India-Pakistan border.

As long as covert support and sympathy for militancy and jihadi culture is present in Punjab, it is going to be an uphill task to get rid of religious extremism and militancy.

Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi is a political and defence analyst

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Religious sectarianism and intolrance among them is very important issue but this is not the cause of present insurgency in SWAT and Waziristan.

Insurgecy started in 2003 when musharaf started miltery operation in wana .

Use of power is not long term solution. GOP should involve local tribes in political system.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Well there's two ends of the spectrum. One is what this guy says, and one is him himself. Now most Pakistanis do not deny that taliban are carrying out the terrorism, so he is wrong there. Secondly, no matter how much these liberals might spin it by using sarcastic and personal attack arguments, we believe India is involved, and it has nothing to do with Zia or the likes. Even many people who dislike Zia believe in Indian involvement.

For arguments sake lets consider India being Involved. I want to ask you, is there no responsibility of PA/ISI? I have never seen anyone questioning or asking why PA/ISI/GOP allowed these non state actors to get trained in military. Do not talk about 80's war, it is 30 years from then. Why did you still allowed armed militia to exist in state boundaries? Foreign countries helping is small blame as compared to this, its their job to take advantage.

There has to some accountability on GOP/ISI/PA side which I have not seen at all.
Analogy could
Your be your brother PA trained another brother T to use him against neighbors, T hits back at your other brothers and you are blaming his weapon supplier.

Is it not the responsibility of the PA/GOP/ISI to make sure there is not other armed forces in Pakistan, this is the way other countries work. Only few countries allow a separate militia to operate in your own country.
 
Last edited:
.
=Fundamentalist;758294]Religious sectarianism and intolrance among them is very important issue but this is not the cause of present insurgency in SWAT and Waziristan.

Insurgecy started in 2003 when musharaf started miltery operation in wana .

Sir g not sure if intolerence is the right term here, shias have been murdered ruthlessly starting from 90's i.e: right after the Russian withdrawal by attacking on mosques or Imambargahs either spraying worshippers with AK fire followed on by granande bomattacks , than 2000 started by high profile target killings on judges , buerocrats armed forces personal further onwards doctors were made targets & a lot of em were murdered in this blood bath of ethinic cleansing the last major scenes were sucide attacks on Ashura and Chehlum.

If you remember Jhang bbc showed a documentry in mid 90's i remember Azam Tariq and his his name plate ... It says "Always hate Shias" and it was gold plated.

The whole plan was well planned and carefully thought out to bring some sort of sunni Islamic revolution in Pakistan , however the tables turned after 9/11 when these morons showed their real face and their version of wahabiat by killing every one in their who disagreed with them. This is what the writer is refering too the punjabi taliban bases are deep rooted in southern punjab and we need to get up and do some thing instead of usual denial or ostrich mode we in (if we want to do some thing) Otherwise worst is to come!
 
.
For arguments sake lets consider India being Involved. I want to ask you, is there no responsibility of PA/ISI? I have never seen anyone questioning or asking why PA/ISI/GOP allowed these non state actors to get trained in military. Do not talk about 80's war, it is 30 years from then. Why did you still allowed armed militia to exist in state boundaries? Foreign countries helping is small blame as compared to this, its their job to take advantage.

There has to some accountability on GOP/ISI/PA side which I have not seen at all.
Analogy could
Your be your brother PA trained another brother T to use him against neighbors, T hits back at your other brothers and you are blaming his weapon supplier.

Is it not the responsibility of the PA/GOP/ISI to make sure there is not other armed forces in Pakistan, this is the way other countries work. Only few countries allow a separate militia to operate in your own country.

As far as allowing militia to operate, these guys have existed long back but never posed a serious threat. And the region is resistant to government interference so that's why PA did not deal with these guys.

Secondly, as far as accountability, you can make the same comparison to india, where Indians seem to be only after Pakistan as far as the blame goes. Here, the crux of the problem lies in Afghanistan. That is their main source of funding. When that funding stops, these guys becoming useless.

The analogy is faulty btw, as the PA trained elements are not attacking Pakistan. TTP was never ever trained by PA.
 
.
Sir g not sure if intolerence is the right term here, shias have been murdered ruthlessly starting from 90's i.e: right after the Russian withdrawal by attacking on mosques or Imambargahs either spraying worshippers with AK fire followed on by granande bomattacks , than 2000 started by high profile target killings on judges , buerocrats armed forces personal further onwards doctors were made targets & a lot of em were murdered in this blood bath of ethinic cleansing the last major scenes were sucide attacks on Ashura and Chehlum.

If you remember Jhang bbc showed a documentry in mid 90's i remember Azam Tariq and his his name plate ... It says "Always hate Shias" and it was gold plated.

The whole plan was well planned and carefully thought out to bring some sort of sunni Islamic revolution in Pakistan , however the tables turned after 9/11 when these morons showed their real face and their version of wahabiat by killing every one in their who disagreed with them. This is what the writer is refering too the punjabi taliban bases are deep rooted in southern punjab and we need to get up and do some thing instead of usual denial or ostrich mode we in (if we want to do some thing) Otherwise worst is to come!

Azam Tariq and his group laskar jhangvi have no support in sunni majority in Pakistan.Al Qaeda and laskar Jhangvi have differences in ideaology but Jamat Islami is more close to Salafi ideaology.

We need to uproot all these extremist groups in Pakistan for peace.
 
.
Sir g not sure if intolerence is the right term here, shias have been murdered ruthlessly starting from 90's i.e: right after the Russian withdrawal by attacking on mosques or Imambargahs either spraying worshippers with AK fire followed on by granande bomattacks , than 2000 started by high profile target killings on judges , buerocrats armed forces personal further onwards doctors were made targets & a lot of em were murdered in this blood bath of ethinic cleansing the last major scenes were sucide attacks on Ashura and Chehlum.

If you remember Jhang bbc showed a documentry in mid 90's i remember Azam Tariq and his his name plate ... It says "Always hate Shias" and it was gold plated.

The whole plan was well planned and carefully thought out to bring some sort of sunni Islamic revolution in Pakistan , however the tables turned after 9/11 when these morons showed their real face and their version of wahabiat by killing every one in their who disagreed with them. This is what the writer is refering too the punjabi taliban bases are deep rooted in southern punjab and we need to get up and do some thing instead of usual denial or ostrich mode we in (if we want to do some thing) Otherwise worst is to come!

Yes, these wahabi scumbags are at the root of the extremism problem. I remember how we used to hear that a wahabi mosque near our area had enough weapons to destroy all of Karachi. They also used to threaten the shias regularly. Being shia myself, we know how often these guys used to target other shias and they even caused problems for my family. These guys are the real extremists and need to be taken care of as they probably sympathize with TTP if not fight for them and also provide them funding (along with india).
 
. .
First of all i donot consider repyling you as a wise option but just in case if someone gets fooled by this troll, i would clarify things.


If you are done with the condescending, please indulge me too Sir.


1- Yeah Pakistan was forced and even now again in this WOT whole worlds believes and mentions that Musharaf was arm twisted.


So what if there were threats, if the Pakistani's did not want to cooperate, they could have stood their ground and not become the alala of US in this war. When a country like Cuba can defy the US even during the missile crisis and post that to this day, why could the great Pakistan not do an encore.

My take on the reason, because Pakistan was caught with its pants down playing billiards with the Taliban when the towers burned. So when Armitage came calling, there was no other way but to ...... About Turn ..... Kneel Down. Gen. Musharraf did say though that Armitage was quite persuasive.... But probably the history of war profiteering would have made this also look like a golden opportunity for the Pakistan Army.


India has jumped in the figure just now and thats y you guys dont know anything about the whole **** going on from last 3 decades and all ur knowledge is based on articles read over web or Indian media, and without even knowing that u might be missing a big chunk of information u believe in them and start posting.


India has not jumped in the scenario just now. We have always been here and we have been very aware too. We tasted direct results of your vision for Afganistan when you indulgently raised your private little army to foment trouble in Kashmir after the Soviet withdrawal. We were here when IA aircraft was taken to Kandhar and your bedmates there did your bidding. We have been here all the time Sir and we will be here long after a lot of players in the scene are gone. Yes, for sure, we do not grand stand so much. So we are normally not so visible...

Stop trolling here if you are so interested then go again back to google and read thoroughly what had happened then.

2- What would US have done !! of course not invaded but had gone for a war by its media against us with an intention to prove us another threat to west and then put some heavy sanctions and later attack Pakistan. Same old formula seen from world war II till today.


Like I said.... Cuba could be a self respecting example.


3- Please learn how diplomacy works. What u want to say is that Pakistan should fight for US while claiming US as enemy by government and get back into same **** where it would had gone by denying co-operation !!! You are talking about two countries where one is trapped in cold war, not two kids fighting over a lolly pop in a slum.


So how does diplomacy work then?? Continuing to agree to shoot oneself in the foot for the fear of denying cooperation?? And the slums develop due to lack of investment, the food, water, electricity, safety and law and order, everything in the slum economy is derived from begging and non-returnable loans. That is how slums develop in our region and continue to develop.


get your words correct, its strategic alliance and partnership not friendship.

Boasting alliance? why US arm twists Pk on one hand and with sweets words on other hand calls us an ally !! Of course when there is no other option then better make it a deal and get own interests served as well rather than making a cry, its a wise option that any sane person would do.


Okay, I get your diplomacy part pretty well now. Good luck my friend.


Your words show your immaturity. Which idiot on earth or son of a gun has told you that Pakistan has asked for a share !! and by the way what is US getting in loot ?? Any gold mines hidden in Afghanistan or Oil !!!!!! OR you mean Pakistan has asked for a share in Osama's body if incase US captures him ??? :rofl::rofl::rofl:


I think our friend to whom you are responding was referring to the invoices that you are raising on US and NATO for the costs incurred by your army in this war (paid warriors = merceneries????).
 
.
Taliban of Jewish Descent? Experts are Checking

by Hillel Fendel
(IsraelNN.com) Experts at the National Institute of Immunohaematology in Mumbai, India believe a large group of Taliban Muslims might be descended of the lost Ten Tribes of Israel – and an Israeli rabbinical expert agrees.

Israel’s government is partially funding a genetic study to establish if there is any proof of the link, bringing an Indian expert in DNA profiling and population genetics to the Technion in Haifa. The expert, Shahnaz Ali, will be supervised by Israeli genetic research expert Prof. Karl Skorecki.

Rabbi Eliyahu Avichayil, who has dedicated his life to seeking out descendants of the Ten Tribes and bringing them to Israel, says he does not need or trust genetic testing for this purpose: “Rashi’s explanation to Jeremiah 31, 20 implies that the way to identify the Ten Lost Tribes will be via the Jewish customs that they maintain – and in this case, there are many of them.”

Rabbi Avichayil says that the Jewish-like customs that have been found among the Pathans - many of whom are now of the Taliban tribe - include sidelocks, ritual circumcision at eight days, cities of refuge for accidental killers, four-cornered garments, ritual immersion for women, and more. They also practice levirate marriage - not according to Moslem custom, which allows for various relatives of the deceased to marry a widow, whether or not she has children, but rather closer to Jewish custom, in that only brothers can marry only childless-widows.

The very name of the Afridi tribe, of which many members belong to the Taliban, indicates its origin from the Israelite Tribe of Ephraim, Rabbi Avichayil says. “The Pathans, 22 million strong, include not only the Afridic tribe, some 7.5 million people, but also the Rabanis, the Gadis, the Asheris, etc. – indications that many of them are of the Ten Tribes.”

Asked if we now have to consider the possibility of absorbing millions of ******* from the east, including Talibanis, Rabbi Avichayil said, “I originally thought that it would be sufficient to merely have a small representation of each tribe, and then the Messiah could take care of the rest. But I was then encouraged by the Lubavitcher Rebbe to continue bringing more and more – but some basic conditions must still be met, such as good absorption arrangements – not as there were with the Ethiopians – and of course a willingness on their part. I met with some Afridi members in Washington, and they were very enthusiastic about what I was saying. If I saw that some of them were interested in converting and living a Jewish lifestyle, I would immediately do what I could to help them come here.”

Regarding Al Qaeda terrorist leader and mass murderer Osama Bin Laden, Rabbi Avichayil said, "No need for concern; he's not from these tribes, but rather hails from Yemen and Saudi Arabia."
 
. .
Great Article!! The following discussion clearly proves the point of the Author about denial in pakistanis! I have read many articles on fantasy believing and Delusions, Being an AID seeker country and still talking big etc on pakistanis by mainstream media, but cant post here!
 
.
Back
Top Bottom