An insurgency swells, but Pakistan focuses on India

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes, we need a lesson from US where 80% of its Armed Forces are sitting in barracks...and Afghanistan is up in flames due to these bastards.Indira Gandhi that ***** should be censored here glad she got what she deserved.

Ans some Indians say India was always peace loving - now you have it, in Indira Gandhi's own words.

Merely restricting themselves to dismembering East Pakistan was India's version of 'restraint' towards Pakistan.

What bullocks have been fed to so many Indians about the 'peaceful nature of the Indian State'.

 

[Renegade]

Pakistan does not run accordingly to Indian wishes. So India should better learn to deal with Pakistan as it is and not the way it wants Pakistan to be because that's not going to happen.

With many power centres in Pakistan it is increasingly difficult to engage Pakistan positively. The civilian govt says something and the next day GHQ shoots it down. Your system is a bundle of contradictions, the civilian government has all the authority but lack the power to do anything and the Army has no authority but has all the power!!

I find it increasingly funny when the papers refer to the Govt in Pakistan as the "Civilian Government", silently hinting at the more powerful one - one that has got its seat of governance in Rawalpindi!!

How do you suggest one deal with such a bundle of contradictions??

 

[IceCold]

Care to provide evidence for backstabbing and sponsering terrorism, dont try to make the world dark by closing your eyes. The above mentioned things suits your country to the T.

Does 71 ring a bell? Now dont give me crap about 71 being a whole different scenario. Add to the numerous threats India has made against Pakistan and tell me why should we turn a blind eye towards India.

I doubt it. And you becoming an ally in the WOT according to me is purely because of US armtwisting and not based on any proper ideology. If you had that in first place, you wouldnt have such situations in your country like, huge presense of taliban terorirsts, multiple military coups and a not so good economy.

You can doubt all you want, no one cares and for the last part our economy was doing perfectly alright untill zadari came to power. Add global recession and WOT to the equation and you have a bad bad economy.

You are answering your questions, so we are focusing on china more right, and your deployment of troops in your eastern border is based on unwarrented fears.

Dont twist my words to suit your flavor.

Well lets hope commense prevail. And you finish of the menace of terrorism from your country once and for all, only then there would be proper ground for the growth of a proper system.

Whatever.

 

[IceCold]

With many power centres in Pakistan it is increasingly difficult to engage Pakistan positively. The civilian govt says something and the next day GHQ shoots it down. Your system is a bundle of contradictions, the civilian government has all the authority but lack the power to do anything and the Army has no authority but has all the power!!

I find it increasingly funny when the papers refer to the Govt in Pakistan as the "Civilian Government", silently hinting at the more powerful one - one that has got its seat of governance in Rawalpindi!!

How do you suggest one deal with such a bundle of contradictions??

watch less yellow media of yours so that it clears your mind and make to able to see things for what they are and not what your sarkar and media show you.

 

[toxic_pus]

Does 71 ring a bell? Now dont give me crap about 71 being a whole different scenario.

The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind. And we will let your friend do the replying.

It was a liberation force dispatched at the request of the Bengali people themselves when their Pakistani tyrants betrayed their own people.

Capiche?

 

[ummah_shall_rise]

I am surprised that even during the 80's when Zia ul Haq was commander that no strife occurred between Pakistan and India. So, why shall we worry now?

It is not in the best interests of both nations to position each other against each other.

 

[Developereo]

It was a liberation force dispatched at the request of the Bengali people themselves when their Pakistani tyrants betrayed their own people.

Bangladesh was like the current Balochistan situation. Pakistan allowed a situation to get so bad that India took advantage and fueled insurrection and separatism, including terrorism.

Let's hope the Pakistani government has learnt its lessons and doesn't allow history to repeat itself, although with such globe-trotting champions as Zardari, and Nawaz Sharif in the wings, you never know...

 

[ummah_shall_rise]

How can we justify what the army is doing to the Pashtun people of the area?
The fuels for separatism have been already sowed unfortunately.
Dirty Politics= Dirty Nationalism= Death of many.

 

[rajeev]

Bangladesh was like the current Balochistan situation. Pakistan allowed a situation to get so bad that India took advantage and fueled insurrection and separatism, including terrorism.

Let's hope the Pakistani government has learnt its lessons and doesn't allow history to repeat itself, although with such globe-trotting champions as Zardari, and Nawaz Sharif in the wings, you never know...

It is far easier to blame India than to admit problems and work on fixing it!

So, if I have to bet I would say no. There would not do anything to please Baluchistanis.

And you think Pakistan will learn? Remember 1965? Repeat of that again 1999 (Kargil)! So it takes about 34 years to forget.

1971 + 34 = 2005. It appears Baluchistanis are moving on Indian Standard Time!

 

[gubbi]

Ans some Indians say India was always peace loving - now you have it, in Indira Gandhi's own words.

Merely restricting themselves to dismembering East Pakistan was India's version of 'restraint' towards Pakistan.

What bullocks have been fed to so many Indians about the 'peaceful nature of the Indian State'.

Oh my my, now AM, the one who so often quotes complicated UN resolutions giving each one a between the lines read, gets to miss one important point in the whole article.

No doubt the Pakistani military’s brutal behavior in east Bengal, and an intolerable flow of refugees into India were part of the drama. Millions were hemorrhaging out of East Pakistan. You could track their columns by the flocks of vultures overhead. But independence for Bangladesh was becoming inevitable. It did not need an Indian invasion.

Re-read that article as you would read those UN resolutions.
Now was that overlooking of a little paragraph intentional or did ya miss reading that part?

A restraint is a restraint! It could have been much worse, and you guys couldn't have done anything about it. Would you have been happy if India had gone further ahead with other military plans? Would it have given you more fodder for thought and bashing?

You talk about India's peaceful nature, name one war where India has initiated an assault or attack without provocation. C'mon for what you are worth, show us one conflict with Pakistan where India initiated an assault - WITHOUT Provocation!! All that BS floating of how India backstabs and crap, show us the evidence. Where is it?
"Nero plays his fiddle while Rome burns" Kudos!

And seriously what exactly has Pakistan to show or has done that India can/needs to trust your establishments?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Oh my my, now AM, the one who so often quotes complicated UN resolutions giving each one a between the lines read, gets to miss one important point in the whole article.


Re-read that article as you would read those UN resolutions.
Now was that overlooking of a little paragraph intentional or did ya miss reading that part?

A restraint is a restraint! It could have been much worse, and you guys couldn't have done anything about it. Would you have been happy if India had gone further ahead with other military plans? Would it have given you more fodder for thought and bashing?

You talk about India's peaceful nature, name one war where India has initiated an assault or attack without provocation. C'mon for what you are worth, show us one conflict with Pakistan where India initiated an assault - WITHOUT Provocation!! All that BS floating of how India backstabs and crap, show us the evidence. Where is it?
"Nero plays his fiddle while Rome burns" Kudos!

And seriously what exactly has Pakistan to show or has done that India can/needs to trust your establishments?

The only problem with your dissemblance is that Indian intervention in East Pakistan and support for the 'terrorists/separatists' started in the sixties, long before any 'Pakistani Army crackdown or refugee exodus' - that has been illustrated by Manekshaw's comments as well as those of retired Indian civil servants in past threads.

Was Pakistan to blame? Sure, it set the conditions for alienating the East Pakistanis, but that does not excuse India intervening in a sovereign state, supporting, arming and fanning violent separatism (terrorism we would call it today), to further deteriorate the situation.

So your dissembling canard does not fly.

And that sir, along with Siachen, are your examples of 'Indian assault on Pakistan without provocation'.

The only Pakistani initiated aggression on India (given 1947 was against the Maharajah and his atrocities on Kashmiris who wished to overthrow dictatorship, if you wish to talk of the tribal invasion) was the attempt to foment an insurrection in disputed territory, when it was clear that the Indian government had decided to violate its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and illegally annex occupied J&K into India.

The hate against Pakistan's existence is pouring out of your leadership - her own words indicate that, and yet some Indians have the gall to propagate the lie that it is in fact Pakistan that has not accepted India, and that it is Pakistan that wants to see India broken apart - Indira Gandhi's own words have laid naked your duplicity, hatred and non acceptance of Pakistan.

It is time for Indians to introspect, to apologize for what your leadership has clearly claimed. Stop lying and stop living in hatred of Pakistan.

 

[gubbi]

It was a liberation force dispatched at the request of the Kashmiri people themselves when their Hindu tyrant betrayed his own people.

Oh there were massacres of Muslims and Hindus in other parts of India and Pakistan as well. Where were your "helpers" then? Didn't you hear their cries? Ah, but it was Kashmir! Wasn't it?

Pakistan provdes moral support to Kashmiris freedom fighters.

Oh as in money, drugs, weapons, religious indoctrination etc? If that's moral support then wonder what your support for an armed rebellion would be? No wonder NATO/IASF are facing so much problems in A'stan.

The fact that the West, as stated above, has decided to parrot the Indian spin does not make the Indian blather any more credible.

So they are credible only when they tow Pakistani pvo? As happened during SU invasion/occupation of Afghanistan or during the '65 and '71 wars with India? The rest of the world considered that as 'blather' then and today is no different.

These were military incusrions and, effectively, acts of war. You better go find that dictionary of yours to educate yourself on the difference.

Yes, only when it was discovered that Pakistani regulars were taking an active part supported by Pakistani establishments. Till then it was "irregulars", I guess an old name for "non-state actors"?

The issue is not when an event occurred but why India gets a pass on its terrorism.

Because prior to 9/11 weren't US and Pakistan in the same bed? Literally!!

On the contrary, India's support for LTTE terrorists, its forceful annexation of Sikkim, and bullying of Nepal are only some of the skeletons in India's closet.

They aren't skeletons, they are out in the open, nobody questions that, no objections from anywhere - just a little feeble shighs of presumed protests! Yes India did it, so what? Getting along....

Sri Lanka depends totally on India for many critical resource, including oil. They have been bullied by India long enough, which is one of the reasons they are so friendly with Pakistan and China.

Hogwash! Sources?

The Bangaldeshis have been quite vocal about Indian terrorism within their country even before 1971.

EVIDENCE of Indian involvement in terrorist activities. EVIDENCE or it didn't/doesn't happen. Period. Whatever y'all say is hogwash without clear irrefutable evidence! Got any?

??

Uh huh. Next time you get your "Incredible India" bubble burst, try not to take it so personally.

What bubble? What burst? What "Incredible India"? We are our worst critics! You happen to have absolutely no idea my friend.

 

[Goodperson]

Ruag your only problem is you posted a latest article about Pakistan by non Indians.

Now forget the topic India takes the blame for every evil happened to Pakistan in General.

Lets try to be on topic rather than following others.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Bangladesh was like the current Balochistan situation. Pakistan allowed a situation to get so bad that India took advantage and fueled insurrection and separatism, including terrorism.

Let's hope the Pakistani government has learnt its lessons and doesn't allow history to repeat itself, although with such globe-trotting champions as Zardari, and Nawaz Sharif in the wings, you never know...

No doubt the Pakistani leadership needs to step up and deliver good governance, but there are two issues here:

1. The issue of good governance and the failure of the GoP to resolve the peoples problems.

2. The intervention of another state to exacerbate those issues and tensions and support terrorism in Pakistan with the aim of breaking it apart.

Issue one does not justify issue 2 - we have our problems, and it is up to us to resolve them. The US after all struggled with a alot wrose for hundred of years - slavery, segregation, and racism, and even today many of those issues exist to some degree.

The intervention of India in East Pakistan and Baluchistan is nothing but blatant support for terrorism in a sovereign nation - there is no justification for it, and Indira Gandhis words show a mentality of hatred and non-acceptance of Pakistan at the highest levels of Indian leadership.

That must change, and Pakistan is owed an apology on that count.

So long as Indians view their actions in east Pakistan with pride, they implicitly endorse the hatred and non-acceptance of Pakistan articulated by Indira Gandhi.

 

[gubbi]

The only problem with your dissemblance is that Indian intervention in East Pakistan and support for the 'terrorists/separatists' started in the sixties, long before any 'Pakistani Army crackdown or refugee exodus' - that has been illustrated by Manekshaw's comments as well as those of retired Indian civil servants in past threads.

Was Pakistan to blame? Sure, it set the conditions for alienating the East Pakistanis, but that does not excuse India intervening in a sovereign state, supporting, arming and fanning violent separatism (terrorism we would call it today), to further deteriorate the situation.

So your dissembling canard does not fly.

I dont have any sources with which to counter those claims, but I think I will accept your 'meddling' concern. Both sides did it, happens the world over. You false sense of bravado covered your eyes to the ground realities and Pakistan did initiate a pre-emptive strike on India thus precipitating its dismemberment. But all things considered, that was bound to happen, it was only a matter of time - Indian intervention or not - and you people really helped hasten the process. Anyway, didnt you start it with Kashmir?

And that sir, along with Siachen, are your examples of 'Indian assault on Pakistan without provocation'.

Lets see, giving visas to mountaineers to climb peaks in disputed territory, claiming it as ones own, shopping for extreme winter clothing for troops, preparing for an impending assault- now if THAT isn't considered provocation in international diplomacy, then pray, what is? Now China is doing it with Kashmiris today. Does not bode well for provocateurs, all I can say.

The only Pakistani initiated aggression on India (given 1947 was against the Maharajah and his atrocities on Kashmiris who wished to overthrow dictatorship, if you wish to talk of the tribal invasion) was the attempt to foment an insurrection in disputed territory, when it was clear that the Indian government had decided to violate its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and illegally annex occupied J&K into India.

Agree with your UN resolution, and Indian act of annexing kashmir, but still it doesnt dilute the fact that Pakistan has always been the aggressor, militarily. All (mis)adventures ended in disasters! Most learn from their mistakes and form up. AM, What happened?

The hate against Pakistan's existence is pouring out of your leadership - her own words indicate that, and yet some Indians have the gall to propagate the lie that it is in fact Pakistan that has not accepted India, and that it is Pakistan that wants to see India broken apart - Indira Gandhi's own words have laid naked your duplicity, hatred and non acceptance of Pakistan.

Of course, people were livid about a country - where people of different hues lived together in relative peace for more than a millenia - carved into two, that too on a communal basis, leading to mass genocides and atrocities on both sides. But if you think Indian leaders wanted to destroy Pakistan, they could have easily done it, both covertly and overtly back then (like Bangladesh happened) and even today. You seriously underestimate India's clout and muscle if you are under the impression that there were/are sinister designs on pakistan but not the will power to do it. Fortunately for all of us Desis, that aint the case. Congress, unlike BJP or other Ultra-Hindu Nationalistic parties, is made up of very weathered, pragmatic leaders with their fingers on the public's pulse. When people were braying for blood post 26/11, the govt in power exercised great restraint, when any other bozo would have had a kneejerk reaction precipitating an unwanted conflict. Didn't happen and you should be really assured that Indian interests lie in a stable Pakistan.

It is time for Indians to introspect, to apologize for what your leadership has clearly claimed. Stop lying and stop living in hatred of Pakistan.

Its your country which is on fire. Introspection is a word you people need to introduce in your dictionaries and practice everyday - so as to save yourselves.
Indian society is not Pakistan centric, Indians love money and gold and bollywood and food and are busy with those things! Guns and religious fundamentalism - nope sir, not part of our society!