An Important Message to PTI Supporters

[Zibago]

Well that explains a lot

He doesn't care about ethnic conflicts outside of Punjab but if he thinks the fire will be contained he is in for a shock

 

[Areesh]

He doesn't care about ethnic conflicts outside of Punjab but if he thinks the fire will be contained he is in for a shock

Obviously

Jab ghar jalta hai to aap drawing room main baith k mehfooz to nahi reh saktai. Woh aag drawing room tak bhi aaye gi

 

[blain2]

Pakistan lost yesterday, whatever little worth it had. US-West, Pakistan's Establishment, superior judiciary and criminal political mafia have joined hands, to drive the last nail in the coffin of this country.

This proverbial "last nail in the coffin" is bandied about with abandon every few years. Let's not have an extreme glass half-empty outlook please.

Let the other side have a go at it. If it is Shahbaz Sharif, I am actually interested in seeing what his "administrative qualities", that people used to talk about when he was Punjab CM, bring to the rest of Pakistan. That he will run an even more fractured alliance government will have its own challenges, but that is the reality that we are facing now.

Members may or may not realize this, but a reset at this point perhaps may help the country from an overall perspective. I would have preferred a continuation and completion of IK's term but this issue with the foreign conspiracy, the problems in Balochistan, inflation, Russian-Ukraine war and relations with both China and the US may require a slight adjustment in both domestic and foreign policies.

 

[Flight of falcon]

 

[Zibago]

If it is Shahbaz Sharif, I am actually interested in seeing what his "administrative qualities", that people used to talk about when he was Punjab CM

Ah yes the magical administrative qualities that led to Faisalabad garment industry to crash
Its all hype jab wo boot ley kar khara ho jata tha Lahore key bech mein

Members may or may not realize this, but a reset at this point perhaps may help the country from an overall perspective. I would have preferred a continuation and completion of IK's term but this issue with the foreign conspiracy, the problems in Balochistan, inflation, Russian-Ukraine war and relations with both China and the US may require a slight adjustment in both domestic and foreign policies.

What kind of RESET are we talking here when all our red lines are being compromised

 

[KaiserX]

Stop Attacking Army
Stop Attacking SC
Stop Attacking ECP

Few days back PTI supporters were attacking Army because of Gen Bajwa Speech
Today PTI supporters are attacking SC
Today PTI supporters are attacking ECP

Same SC disqualified Nawaz Sharif/Maryam Nawaz just few years back
Same Armed Forces gave surprise to India in 27 Feb and many other sacrifices.

If you call everyone traitor, No one will take you seriously anymore.

Some overseas Pakistanis on this forum are constantly asking for mob/street justice. Pakistan went through worse terrorist attacks and our Armed Forces fought bravely and eliminated them brilliantly. If bunch of PTI supporters come on streets and start killing people, they will be taken down immediately by our Security and Armed Forces. PTI will become like MQM of Altaf Hussain.

Oye chawal what army or courts are you talking about? An incompetent army leadership which has never won the war, removes govts in multiple countries on its whim on orders from america. A establishment that sends their kids abroad, has properties abroad, and retires abroad

Because previous COAS/CJs let democratically elected parliaments complete their terms regardless of memogate, OBL raid, economic collapse, population explosion, drone attacks, etc…

Whereby IKs govt has none of the above with covid and globally high inflation. Yet the “establishment” did not let his govt finish its 5 year term.

Shows where the loyalty of the establishment lies.

PTI and nationalistic pakistanis should thrash these devils where ever they are seen!

 

[Zulfiqar]

Wrote this for another thread that got deleted.

Oh well.

Bajwa and DG ISI need to resign.

Keeping aside their role in current NCV, they should resign on the very ground that the counter intelligence resources under them failed to counter US moves in auction of MNAs.

Anyone with a tiny ounce of self respect would have resigned.

It is time to spin off certain departments of ISI to a new civilian set up. Yeah I know ISI stands for "Inter services" but they have failed in their role w.r.t countering Intel moves of foreign agencies.

They are hogging resources. Better to build a new organization that "actually" reports to PM.

PTM, BLA 2.0 e.t.c the list is long in current failures.

Either they failed or they were complicit in current government change.

Either way they need to resign.

Ghar bhejo bajway ko (this is coming from a former mil brat who has spent 25+ years in proper military cantts).

A few weeks ago I would have not said it but the reality is that the senior leadership of PA is the problem.

Previously the excuse was that the sitting government is not that active on foreign policy front so PA has to interject.

Ab tau nayi government kaafi active hai.

Why don't you give them a chance and focus on what your actual role is w.r.t defence of the country.

Oh well, the joke is on them. If PDM comes, they are going to defund the budget so much that army/navy/air force key pass paise hi nahi honge for subs/J-10s and more VT-4s.

In 2008-9 the position was so bad that the sitting DGMO actually told the Indian counterpart that Bhai paise nahi hain. We are going to nuke you the second you come (because our conventional resources were so wacked).

I don't what the problem is owing to which these guys are so short sighted.

This was a chance to have a 10 year breather to eliminate dynastic politics in long run but No. The status quo must be kept.



They actually don't want to let go as the power is addictive.

 

[Big_bud]

Jab gahak paisey wala hou tou tawaif chutti k din bhi nachti hai... Sums up the situation very well!

 

[Menace2Society]

This proverbial "last nail in the coffin" is bandied about with abandon every few years. Let's not have an extreme glass half-empty outlook please.

Let the other side have a go at it. If it is Shahbaz Sharif, I am actually interested in seeing what his "administrative qualities", that people used to talk about when he was Punjab CM, bring to the rest of Pakistan. That he will run an even more fractured alliance government will have its own challenges, but that is the reality that we are facing now.

There is no reset. There is global inflation and for poor countries like Pakistan it will become tougher. Also checks and balances on corruption have now gone, its open season so prepare yourself for fudged statistics and propaganda by paid media. 30 years they have had power. Why do you expect something different?

After 2008 NRO the corruption multiplied and it will multiply again. PMLN had a government in a high growth phase in the world, everyone was making money except for Pakistan. But the Sharifs managed to establish 17 factories, I am sure they made millions

Majority of the day the Sharifs are running their businesses and running the country is secondary. Always the last thing on their mind. They will ensure power and thats it. I am sure PDM are all figuring out how they can rotate power as long as each others businesses and power base are unaffected.

You are literally watching your country die. I live in the 1st world, it doesn't bother me but you guys just take it all so lightly.

But make sure to get your chests out for India when they next pick a fight, that's the only time I see you lot get mad.

 

[blain2]

There is no reset. There is global inflation and for poor countries like Pakistan it will become tougher. Also checks and balances on corruption have now gone, its open season so prepare yourself for fudged statistics and propaganda by paid media. 30 years they have had power. Why do you expect something different?

After 2008 NRO the corruption multiplied and it will multiply again. PMLN had a government in a high growth phase in the world, everyone was making money except for Pakistan. But the Sharifs managed to establish 17 factories, I am sure they made millions

Majority of the day the Sharifs are running their businesses and running the country is secondary. Always the last thing on their mind. They will ensure power and thats it. I am sure PDM are all figuring out how they can rotate power as long as each others businesses and power base are unaffected.

You are literally watching your country die. I live in the 1st world, it doesn't bother me but you guys just take it all so lightly.

But make sure to get your chests out for India when they next pick a fight, that's the only time I see you lot get mad.

I don't disagree with anything you have posted. I am just posting the reality of Pakistan.

 

[R Wing]

The rhetoric just keeps using strange circular logic.

Just because the Air Force managed to do its professional duty (pretty well, might I add), we shouldn't be able to criticize the Army for its politicking?

Vah, kya baat hai.

You are making our point for us --- the whole point is that if the army just sticks to its professional duties, it would be better.

And if it's hell-bent on exceeding constitutional limits, then do it for the betterment of the country and cleanse the damn system totally once and for all. But there's no incentive to do that --- the capability is there, but no vision, desire, or will.

If we have to criticize ALL institutions, we should. Pakistan needs an entirely new framework and Constitution. This shit just can't work.

My 2c. Peace.

There is no reset. There is global inflation and for poor countries like Pakistan it will become tougher. Also checks and balances on corruption have now gone, its open season so prepare yourself for fudged statistics and propaganda by paid media. 30 years they have had power. Why do you expect something different?

After 2008 NRO the corruption multiplied and it will multiply again. PMLN had a government in a high growth phase in the world, everyone was making money except for Pakistan. But the Sharifs managed to establish 17 factories, I am sure they made millions

Majority of the day the Sharifs are running their businesses and running the country is secondary. Always the last thing on their mind. They will ensure power and thats it. I am sure PDM are all figuring out how they can rotate power as long as each others businesses and power base are unaffected.

You are literally watching your country die. I live in the 1st world, it doesn't bother me but you guys just take it all so lightly.

But make sure to get your chests out for India when they next pick a fight, that's the only time I see you lot get mad.

Why are you wasting your time with somebody who spends most of his time trying to defend the boys even when their hands are dirty?

A former COAS and several serving 2-stars have looked me in the eye and said that this 'new normal' (current status quo since the past decade or so) is an achievement. This is their level. That's why they must focus solely on defense; they don't have the vision for anything else.

When the present pathetic situation is deemed satisfactory, that is the very definition of a power that is simply perpetuating (and, dare I say, enjoying) the status quo. Every Gen retires with full benefits regardless of the country stagnating, regressing, or incrementally improving in meaningless, isolated ways.

 

[R Wing]

We're also the ones with the least to lose.

Musharraf capitulated like a punk in front of the one eyed Dajjal Iftikhar Choudhry. The revenge of democracy was felt by Pakistan.

This time you guys will ultimately live with the consequences too. All we lost out on was the dream of seeing our country developed. We won't have a home to return too, but in reality we only had hope of one.

Post of the century.

The problem with Pakistan is that our (especially the establishment's) definition of success is our current predicament. You might think that's insane, but it's absolutely true.

They pat each other on the back and congratulate themselves for maintaining... this. If you are a philosophy aficionado, then the paradox is as follows: how do you fix a system that believes mediocrity to be excellence?

If one simply becomes a student of history, understands the Imperial British Army from which ours was born, analyzes its institutional culture and real role in the colonies, one begins to understand how, precisely, the Generals and Judges see Pakistan. It is simply a foreign extractive elite replaced by a local vassal system.

The fact that many here are relatively calm and still defending such an institution (no institution really deserves any defense in Pakistan, given the realities around us) shows that we are, more or less, okay with all this. This circus is 'part of the game' for poor countries, you see. The Establishment is playing a complex, grand strategic long-game that you and I are too dumb to see (and history is too blind to record, apparently). Welcome to the show.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Your comments are always positive and imply that somehow the "deep state" is on the side of good and will fix everything. In my opinion the reality of the Pakistani deep state is negative and there is no reason to have too much confidence in their future plans.

It takes some knowledge of the Pakistani military to understand why they behave the way they do. I don't want to write a long article on the history of the Pak Army, but I'll just mention a few points.

The Turkish military has a historical continuity with Ottoman times. It's not like that in Pakistan.

1. In British India, the British totally disbanded the old Mughal era military after an uprising in 1857. Then they recruited people from areas that they thought were the most loyal to the British. After the Indian soldiers served the British they were given lands as rewards. Therefore, almost all the military and land owning political elite in Pakistan are descendants of people who collaborated with the British.

2. The British Indian Army was so loyal to the British that 50,000 British were able to rule over 350 million Indians. The officer class was all British and the soldiers were Indians who suppressed the population.

3. In 1947 the British Indian Army was split between India and Pakistan. Both armies have the exact same historical background and are copies of each other. Only in the 1980s did the Pakistan Army, under Zia-ul-Haq, introduce some Islamic symbols into the forces.

4. To this day most of the culture of the Pakistan military is British based. Once the British left they switched their loyalty to the Americans.

5. Most of the Pakistani elite have a fierce loyalty to the West. They have family and economic links to the West, especially USA.

6. Leaving aside 75 years of Pakistani history, only in 2008 the Chief of Army Staff (COAS), Musharraf, was overthrown by Kayani, who was the head of the ISI (deep state). The Americans wanted to get rid of Musharraf and the deep state obliged. They brought in the looters who reduced Pakistan to an economic failed state. All these looters have been looting Pakistan for over 40 years.

So, in short, the history of the Pakistani deep state leaves no cause to imagine that somehow they will change in the future.

For years i have hammered this point home. Look at the behaviour of Kiyani and understand what damage he has done to Pakistan in long run by devising and implementing the NRO for these thugs.

NRO gone, made null and void by SCP, but as a result the thugs were back in power. They were free to loot Pakistan red and blue. They are given another chance by Bajwa, this is nothing but NRO 2, which IK had been warning for years since in power.

Why Pakistanis cannot se stark reality staring at their faces!!

 

[crankthatskunk]

Keep your money. We can not 'do more' to elect your favorite inept & anti-Constitution charlatan.


I tell you what is high ibadah. It is to get hold of people who make mischief (fitna) like yourself & restrain them until they either realize that they are wrong, or until they are sorted by nature.

Every barking dog sounds like a patriot to you? Pakistan is a multi-ethnic state & it can not survive without an agreed social contract - a Constitution. We got one & we do not need likes of you to raise fitna. We'll sort you out if you try.

I think you have completely lost the plot. Which bound to happen if one's life is spent following thugs, looters and criminals.

By the way, Pakistan goes for 1.50 billion US $ tranches to IMF, i wouldn;t use the common word for it for sake of Pakistan.
Just think where the remittances stands at the moment, and think if you have the capacity, where Pakistan would stands without those remittances!!

It would have defaulted long ago.

I am sure, you wouldn't understand pure logic and maths.

I salute you Mr.

 

[Dark-Destroyer]

Overseas Pakistanis money is acceptable their opinions are not thats what these people want