An endless clash of institutions in Pakistan; engineered?

[Hamzay]

Our armed forces, Parliament and Judiciary are the most important pillars and foundations of the state.

The political chaos which we have been witnessing in this country for years is due to this clash of institutions which is exhibited by the electronic and print media on almost daily basis.

I want to know if this ongoing conflict is engineered to keep this country busy at eating its own flesh or this is happening because we have failed politically; the Constitution has proven wrong and the system has collapsed.

Civil military relations have always been tensed while an elected Prime Minister is in office. Viceregal powers since the time of Governor General Ghulam Muhammad have used judiciary as a tool to control the elected body/Parliament.

During Musharraf's time there was a funny movement for the 'independence of judiciary' to give impression that judiciary was subservient to military masters.

However, later developments on and off implied that judiciary was still bowing to the bosses who controlled actual axis of powers.

According to PTI and allies, judiciary has done a heroic act; PML(N) and allies are blaming judiciary to act as party during recent conflicts.

Though it is not easy to prove any of the above, except that the persistent antagonism between organs of the state is corroding the very basis of it.

The way religious extremism and terrorism was imposed on Pakistan following the events of 9/11, this clash of institutions is another serious attack on the integrity and sovereignty of Pakistan.

The enemy 'within' wants the nation to keep harming each other in the name of politics and rights and interests.

Armed forces and their military establishment are maligned on various forums for their alleged involvement in a tussle for power with civil administration. Civilian government is being branded to be corrupt and evil, and judiciary is either used by military establishment or is blamed to be used by them against the civilian government.

This environment is creating disunity and disintegration in the country. The damages it is causing can be widely seen today and in the times to come.

 

[Taygibay]

Check this out, mate for an outside look on the cycle of destitutions :

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/...leader-dashes-hopes-for-fuller-democracy.html

It only answers part of your query but I believe it makes sense and counts.

Good day to you, Tay.

 

[Zibago]

Our armed forces, Parliament and Judiciary are the most important pillars and foundations of the state.

The political chaos which we have been witnessing in this country for years is due to this clash of institutions which is exhibited by the electronic and print media on almost daily basis.

I want to know if this ongoing conflict is engineered to keep this country busy at eating its own flesh or this is happening because we have failed politically; the Constitution has proven wrong and the system has collapsed.

Civil military relations have always been tensed while an elected Prime Minister is in office. Viceregal powers since the time of Governor General Ghulam Muhammad have used judiciary as a tool to control the elected body/Parliament.

During Musharraf's time there was a funny movement for the 'independence of judiciary' to give impression that judiciary was subservient to military masters.

However, later developments on and off implied that judiciary was still bowing to the bosses who controlled actual axis of powers.

According to PTI and allies, judiciary has done a heroic act; PML(N) and allies are blaming judiciary to act as party during recent conflicts.

Though it is not easy to prove any of the above, except that the persistent antagonism between organs of the state is corroding the very basis of it.

The way religious extremism and terrorism was imposed on Pakistan following the events of 9/11, this clash of institutions is another serious attack on the integrity and sovereignty of Pakistan.

The enemy 'within' wants the nation to keep harming each other in the name of politics and rights and interests.

Armed forces and their military establishment are maligned on various forums for their alleged involvement in a tussle for power with civil administration. Civilian government is being branded to be corrupt and evil, and judiciary is either used by military establishment or is blamed to be used by them against the civilian government.

This environment is creating disunity and disintegration in the country. The damages it is causing can be widely seen today and in the times to come.

There is no clash of institutions its all in your head due process was followed and judges gave a just and judicious verdict

 

[mdcp]

There must be complete audit for all politicians, generals, judges, media and anyone who held public office indiscriminately and immediately to stop misuse of resources and authority so in future everyone can be accountable and also there must be clear definition and implementation of authority otherwise many departments going in different directions will damage more.

Establishment must work under their mandate and must not destroy institutions as most of current problems are the result of their policies

 

[Hamzay]

If politicians are corrupt then why allow them to go for elections? Why was it impossible to bring Nawaz, Benazir and Zardari to justice before they came to power for the second time? Why is it necessary to put an elected Prime Minister to trial? Why not before he/she holds the office?

I have always respected our armed forces but I also admit that there are certain elements in the GHQ who are perhaps unknowingly harming our national security by triggering and promoting this war among institutions.

Nawaz and Benazir both were dismissed in the early 1990s over charges of corruption. Why were they not put on trial after that? If they were not proven guilty why they were not restored in the first place?

And if they were evil why they were allowed to become Prime Ministers for the next term?

There is definitely bad intention in dragging elected Prime Ministers to corruption cases as it doesn't benefit anyone but the enemy of the motherland.

Nawaz Sharif has once again been dismissed for the sake of dismissal.

There must be complete audit for all politicians, generals, judges, media and anyone who held public office indiscriminately and immediately to stop misuse of resources and authority so in future everyone can be accountable and also there must be clear definition and implementation of authority otherwise many departments going in different directions will damage more.

Establishment must work under their mandate and must not destroy institutions as most of current problems are the result of their policies

I agree but once a government is functioning and running the country without corrupting resources, let it do its job. Keep a check on their performance, but don't pull their legs, let them work for the country be it under Nawaz, Zardari or Imran Khan.

There shouldn't be any 'silent agreements' between the Parliament and GHQ; everything should be on paper for everyone to see and study.

It's time the intelligentsia of this country worked out a solution to our problems irrespective of its political or ideological affiliation.

We are from this country, this country is from us.

 

[Autodidact-knowledge]

Things are not so simple in Pakistan. Power changes hands but never given to the actual epicentre of the nation. So in the end everyone goes away free. And try next time. Unless examples are made and clearer election process is done it is inevitable.

 

[I.R.A]

This intrigue was hatched when IJI was funded and formed ............ then and there it was also decided that we are going to get NS disqualified by courts in 2017. Sazish hy yeh bohat bari ........ tum nai samj pao gay.

 

[Mansoon]

Check this out, mate for an outside look on the cycle of destitutions :

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/...leader-dashes-hopes-for-fuller-democracy.html

It only answers part of your query but I believe it makes sense and counts.

Good day to you, Tay.

It's doesn't make sense to Americans who never impeached their president on corruption charges

If politicians are corrupt then why allow them to go for elections? Why was it impossible to bring Nawaz, Benazir and Zardari to justice before they came to power for the second time? Why is it necessary to put an elected Prime Minister to trial? Why not before he/she holds the office?

Because you have got a corrupt and ineffective NAB that keeps shutting down corruption cases before elections. Not this time

 

[Hamzay]

This intrigue was hatched when IJI was funded and formed ............ then and there it was also decided that we are going to get NS disqualified by courts in 2017. Sazish hy yeh bohat bari ........ tum nai samj pao gay.

ISI's manufacturing IJI was wrong but it was a counter strategy to CIA's projection of Benazir Bhutto against Zia-ul-Haq's anti-American and pro-nuclear Pakistan.

Pakistan's actual problem is there are ghaddars (traitors) freely available in all sections of administration and management. You may find them in the Parliament, in the Judiciary and in the GHQ as well. There's no holy cow in Pakistan. All cows $hit and pee and don't take a bath to get back their holiness.

In India where they have the largest democracy in the world, you won't find politicians having their bases in London or Dubai. Pakistani politicians and leaders visit London and Dubai so frequently that sometimes it gives impression that Pakistan's Capital is London and Dubai both.

These are the weaknesses of our political system. They can be removed only through sound legislation. No politician should be allowed to hold meetings in Dubai, London, and elsewhere and use a foreign soil to do politics in Pakistan. Zardari, Nawaz, Imran, Tahirul Qadri etc have their bases abroad in one way or the other.

Because you have got a corrupt and ineffective NAB that keeps shutting down corruption cases before elections. Not this time

Jamat-e-Islami, the Axis of Hypocrisy and Evil under the leadership of that ugly Shaytaan, Siraj-ul-Haq filed a petition against Nawaz Sharif in the Supreme Court last year. Today their Jahil leader, Liaquat Baloch demanded that the rest of people should also be put on trial whose names appeared in Panama papers. Now this is their hypocrisy. They are making this demand to some imaginary daddy. Why they hell they don't file petitions against the rest the way they did against Nawaz Sharif?

They will simply not. Because they are cheap servants of the GHQ and are groomed to do dirty jobs for 'some ambitious generals' who have probably sworn allegiance to the White House in America and are working to keep Pakistan in a continuous turmoil.

 

[maximuswarrior]

If politicians are corrupt then why allow them to go for elections? Why was it impossible to bring Nawaz, Benazir and Zardari to justice before they came to power for the second time? Why is it necessary to put an elected Prime Minister to trial? Why not before he/she holds the office?

I have always respected our armed forces but I also admit that there are certain elements in the GHQ who are perhaps unknowingly harming our national security by triggering and promoting this war among institutions.

Nawaz and Benazir both were dismissed in the early 1990s over charges of corruption. Why were they not put on trial after that? If they were not proven guilty why they were not restored in the first place?

And if they were evil why they were allowed to become Prime Ministers for the next term?

There is definitely bad intention in dragging elected Prime Ministers to corruption cases as it doesn't benefit anyone but the enemy of the motherland.

Nawaz Sharif has once again been dismissed for the sake of dismissal.



I agree but once a government is functioning and running the country without corrupting resources, let it do its job. Keep a check on their performance, but don't pull their legs, let them work for the country be it under Nawaz, Zardari or Imran Khan.

There shouldn't be any 'silent agreements' between the Parliament and GHQ; everything should be on paper for everyone to see and study.

It's time the intelligentsia of this country worked out a solution to our problems irrespective of its political or ideological affiliation.

We are from this country, this country is from us.

BS. This has nothing to do with the Pak armed forces and you know it. We could have made this case years ago, but this time Nawaz Sharif was caught with his pants down. We knew it the moment the revelations were made.

The Panama leaks served as Nawaz Sharif's undoing. There is nothing unusual about the allegations. We have had countless allegations before against our leaders and we know that most of them are true. Only this time, the gravity and authenticity of the revelations made by a group of reputable and independent journalists served as the decisive factor.

I, do, however wholeheartedly agree that accountability should be across the board and that will be a litmus test. Nawaz Sharif served as a test case. We need to cleanse the entire system.

 

[Hamzay]

BS. This has nothing to do with the Pak armed forces and you know it. We could have made this case years ago, but this time Nawaz Sharif was caught with his pants down. We knew it the moment the revelations were made.

The Panama leaks served as Nawaz Sharif's undoing. There is nothing unusual about the allegations. We have had countless allegations before against our leaders. The gravity and authenticity of these specific revelations made by a group of reputable journalists has done the trick.

I'm not saying that Nawaz is clean. All I'm saying is that Nawaz has allegedly done wrong in the past, in 1990s etc. But the GHQ under Musharraf dry cleaned Nawaz, Benazir and some 8000 persons, why?

Now after that NRO, since Nawaz had transformed into an angel, then why the hell this JIT and this disqualification?

Who is going to punish that election commission and judiciary that permitted such corrupt politicians to contest elections?

Why only one person whose name is Nawaz Sharif?

Something personal or he was a tough guy for GHQ?

 

[maximuswarrior]

I'm not saying that Nawaz is clean. All I'm saying is that Nawaz has allegedly done wrong in the past, in 1990s etc. But the GHQ under Musharraf dry cleaned Nawaz, Benazir and some 8000 persons, why?

Now after that NRO, since Nawaz had transformed into an angel, then why the hell this JIT and this disqualification?

Who is going to punish that election commission and judiciary that permitted such corrupt politicians to contest elections?

Why only one person whose name is Nawaz Sharif?

Something personal or he was a tough guy for GHQ?

I agree. Accountability needs to be ruthless and include every single element of the society. That includes judiciary, military, politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen etc. This is going to be a litmus test in the coming months and years. Nevertheless, the corruption case against Nawaz Sharif is fully justified. We need a similar case against Zardari and other rulers. There need to be severe penalties in case of irregularities.

Nawaz Sharif had it coming for a long time. His mega corruption is an open secret.

 

[Hamzay]

I agree. Accountability needs to be ruthless and include every single element of the society. That includes judiciary, military, politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen etc. This is going to be a litmus test in the coming months and years. Nevertheless, the corruption case against Nawaz Sharif is fully justified. We need a similar case against Zardari and other rulers. There need to be severe penalties in case of irregularities.

Nawaz Sharif had it coming for a long time. His mega corruption is an open secret.

But it won't happen. It has never happened before.

 

[expert]

This is the Parliament's own doing. The could have amended the Constitution when they had their chance. There has been no error of process or law in this disqualification. The main accountability process will start now: when Nawaz stands trial for criminal offences.

 

[defence_analyst]

I'm not saying that Nawaz is clean. All I'm saying is that Nawaz has allegedly done wrong in the past, in 1990s etc. But the GHQ under Musharraf dry cleaned Nawaz, Benazir and some 8000 persons, why?

Now after that NRO, since Nawaz had transformed into an angel, then why the hell this JIT and this disqualification?

Who is going to punish that election commission and judiciary that permitted such corrupt politicians to contest elections?

Why only one person whose name is Nawaz Sharif?

Something personal or he was a tough guy for GHQ?

Good point, its time institutions worked to investigate candidates before giving them permission to contest election. After that only corruption charges with in that period should be reason to disqualify, not freaking undeclared Iqama from decade ago.

This is the Parliament's own doing. The could have amended the Constitution when they had their chance. There has been no error of process or law in this disqualification. The main accountability process will start now: when Nawaz stands trial for criminal offences.

First Pak institutions need to investigate all candidates before election, at least from big parties. Most PTI MNA's will be disqualified under article 62 but we all know it will not be implemented. Which beg the question, is article 62 only used to remove elected PM to create instability?

If institutions can't do their work before election then why create chaos for next 5 years? Now they are warning Shehbaz Sharif for court case, why they don't prove it now so ECP can disqualify him before election is held next month? Why they will wait till he become PM? I don't think country can work like this if half the time PM is fighting cases in court when elected, otherwise he is fine.