Amir Taimur

[waz]

Passion for Islam?? That's insane.

After Genghis Khan, Timur is the second biggest killer of Muslims in history. He built numerous human skull towers with the head of the Muslims he had killed.

The crazy thing is that Genghis would never had invaded had it not been for the crazy act of the ruler at the time i.e. Shah Ala Ad-Din Muhammad and the slaughter of Mongol ambassadors and the sacking of a caravan. That's why good rulers are a blessing.

 

[Mamluk]

The crazy thing is that Genghis would never had invaded had it not been for the crazy act of the ruler at the time i.e. Shah Ala Ad-Din Muhammad and the slaughter of Mongol ambassadors and the sacking of a caravan. That's why good rulers are a blessing.

The history you know was written by Mongol writers. (Not that it is lies, but Mongols could have done something to provoke Shah Muhammad.)
Did Mongols need a reason to invade China, or Europe? What about crossing the sea to invade Japan? The Khwarezmians were an easier target being just next to them by land. They would always cook up reasons to invade neighboring non-Mongols.

 

[waz]

The history you know was written by Mongol writers. (Not that it is lies, but Mongols could have done something to provoke Shah Muhammad.)
Did Mongols need a reason to invade China, or Europe? What about crossing the sea to invade Japan? The Khwarezmians were an easier target being just next to them by land. They would always cook up reasons to invade neighboring non-Mongols.

The thing is Muslim chroniclers have said the same thing, the Mongols actually hadn't provoked anything. You're right they invaded China etc, but that was also one of the reasons they didn't want to start another conflict i.e. their supplies lines would be stretched. The Khan actually saw the Khwarezmians as a major trading partner, which if looted and destroyed would not bring about long term dividends, so hence it was better to trade with them.

 

[Mamluk]

they didn't want to start another conflict i.e. their supplies lines would be stretched. The Khan actually saw the Khwarezmians as a major trading partner, which if looted and destroyed would not bring about long term dividends, so hence it was better to trade with them.

So why did they continue conquering, all the way to Egypt? Did Iraq's Abbasids or Egypt's Mamluks kill their ambassadors? They even went for India during Alauddin Khalji's time.

Reality is, Mongol tribes were perpetually in war with each other, for wealth and grazing lands. Once the tribes were united, it was time to look outside for the same.

I really doubt Mongols would not have invaded Central Asia (Khwarezmia) for whatever reason.

 

[waz]

So why did they continue conquering, all the way to Egypt? Did Iraq's Abbasids or Egypt's Mamluks kill their ambassadors? They even went for India during Alauddin Khalji's time.

Reality is, Mongol tribes were perpetually in war with each other, for wealth and grazing lands. Once the tribes were united, it was time to look outside for the same.

I really doubt Mongols would not have invaded Central Asia (Khwarezmia) for whatever reason.

Once you start why stop? There is no doubt the trigger for it was the acts as described earlier on. It's true that conflict and gathering society was at their core, but they were also practical. But anyway it's going off-topic.

 

[Hamza913]

Timur fought for himself and for his people, not for you or Islam. Why do modern Muslims always try to take ownership of their invaders?

If Pakistan existed and was in his way, he would have decimated Pakistan too. Would you have celebrated him then?

I think he's in the same league as any Afghan warlord who wants to invade Pakistan and build his own mosques.

And you say he killed 1/20th of the world's population as one of 2 negative points against all the good he did. 1/20th of the worlds population! That kind of relentless killing is not a small negative.

I beg to differ, his religious mindset is evident in his writings.

Who else would take ownership of them lol? They are our people.

Funny you mention that, Sikander Shah Mir was a Muslim Sultan in northern Pakistan who was an ally of Taimurs. Taimur also had someone from Multan called Khizr Khan rule over the areas he had conquered.

I hate sticking a nationality to these folk, they were Muslims first and foremost and primarily fought as Ghazi’s in the name of Islam.

I never said it was a minor negative, I simply said it was a negative.

 

[Army research]

Achievements were great , Islam wasn't, also just because he spared subcontinent doesn't mean he was pro Islam, might be us subcontinentals were weak, and bowed before him where as other proud nations like the Turks and Arabs faught back and were slaughtered ?

 

[EasyNow]

I beg to differ, his religious mindset is evident in his writings.

Who else would take ownership of them lol? They are our people.

Funny you mention that, Sikander Shah Mir was a Muslim Sultan in northern Pakistan who was an ally of Taimurs. Taimur also had someone from Multan called Khizr Khan rule over the areas he had conquered.

I hate sticking a nationality to these folk, they were Muslims first and foremost and primarily fought as Ghazi’s in the name of Islam.

I never said it was a minor negative, I simply said it was a negative.

Every Muslim leader calls themselves Ghazi, (there's one sitting in Islamabad's lal masjid right now) most are pious too. The reality is Taimurs wars were explicitly for the dominance of his people within Islam - not for the cause of Islam itself, otherwise why invade Muslim territory?

Our people? Are you sure? He invaded today's Pakistan when it was already flourishing under the Tughluqs. Ethnically he was of Mongol extraction, so I'm not sure why he's any more your people than the ones already there?

I am a huge fan of the man as a personality, as a tactician and as a legendary empire builder. But im not sure one can paint him as a warrior for the Muslim cause.

 

[Hamza913]

Every Muslim leader calls themselves Ghazi, (there's one sitting in Islamabad's lal masjid right now) most are pious too. The reality is Taimurs wars were explicitly for the dominance of his people within Islam - not for the cause of Islam itself, otherwise why invade Muslim territory?

Our people? Are you sure? He invaded today's Pakistan when it was already flourishing under the Tughluqs. Ethnically he was of Mongol extraction, so I'm not sure why he's any more your people than the ones already there?

I am a huge fan of the man as a personality, as a tactician and as a legendary empire builder. But im not sure one can paint him as a warrior for the Muslim cause.

To unify it.

The Tughlaqs were a failing dynasty and needed to be replaced, also, again, Sikander Shah Mir was the Sultan of northern Pakistan (and he was also a Gujjar by ethnicity, making him purely local) and he held amicable relations with Taimur.

He stylised himself as a Ghazi, so I consider him as seemingly wanting to be a Ghazi.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

@dsr478 has got this special art or skill to glorify every Muslim rulers of past . I am sure if i ask him to write about Mullah omar or Osama then he will present them great warrior of Islam who has done great service to Islam. We should realize that many Muslim rulers of past used Islam as a means to consolidate and exert power. Genghis Khan was ideal of taimur so he also used similar methods to build his empire. He was known to massacring the populations in present Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and India

I member there were huge noises in India when saif ali khan gave this name to his son

 

[MastanKhan]

The crazy thing is that Genghis would never had invaded had it not been for the crazy act of the ruler at the time i.e. Shah Ala Ad-Din Muhammad and the slaughter of Mongol ambassadors and the sacking of a caravan. That's why good rulers are a blessing.

Hi,

Thank you for that post---.

People don't understand---that these muslim areas of Khwarzm dynasty were extremely HOT areas for the mongols---climatically.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Asalamu Alaikum

He was brutal, but he had a clear passion for Islam and never uprooted it, in fact, he helped ensure Islam remained the dominant power in the sub-continent by replacing the failing Tughlaq dynasty with a more competent and more Islamic successor.

He invaded modern day Turkey and killed King Yaldrem who was invading Europe and spreading Islamin Europe at that time....Ameer Taimur only invade Muslim countries (or rules by Muslims) by saying they are corrupt but end up killing huge population of Muslims. looting, raping and Killing Muslims and after invasion he did not introduce any laws to prevent corruption which means his agenda was only loot and plunder.

Read History and then talk dear bro.

 

[Hamza913]

He invaded modern day Turkey and killed King Yaldrem

The Ottomans attacked him first.

Also, I agree it was sad, I mentioned it as one of Taimurs negative characteristics.

 

[waz]

.Ameer Taimur only invade Muslim countries

He attacked and destroyed Christian empires as well bro e.g. Armenians and Georgians, and wiped out the last remaining order of the Knights Hospitaller in the Middle East. In actual fact scholars say his attacks ended the Nestorian Christian church in Asia.
But yes many Muslims empires felt his weight as well.

 

[Maarkhoor]

He attacked and destroyed Christian empires as well bro e.g. Armenians and Georgians, and wiped out the last remaining order of the Knights Hospitaller in the Middle East. In actual fact scholars say his attacks ended the Nestorian Christian church in Asia.
But yes many Muslims empires felt his weight as well.

With due respect He was a butcher...he did more damage to Muslims as compared to others....

Have nice good night...

Regards,
Mian Ahmed Rattay.

The Ottomans attacked him first.

Also, I agree it was sad, He mentioned it as one of Taimurs negative characteristics.

No Sir, He used to send letters / envoys to victims to surrender and when they refuse he plundered them...a senseless aggressor ...I Must say...