America’s whipping boy

[Indus Pakistan]

A rubbish article intended for retarded readers. The only "whipping" I see here is the anti American setiment amongst the unthinking citizens of Pakistan by a senior diplomat who should know better. Then again I guess he only reflects his readers.

 

[VCheng]

A rubbish article intended for retarded readers. The only "whipping" I see here is the anti American setiment amongst the unthinking citizens of Pakistan by a senior diplomat who should know better. Then again I guess he only reflects his readers.

Unfortunately, people like the OP writer should know better, but obviously do not. That is why Pakistan fails at diplomacy so badly and so consistently.

 

[Levina]

A rubbish article intended for retarded readers. The only "whipping" I see here is the anti American setiment amongst the unthinking citizens of Pakistan by a senior diplomat who should know better. Then again I guess he only reflects his readers.

I was curious to know the reaction to this article.

 

[Tipu7]

Few things

1: Shakeel Afridi will not be released.
2: Pakistan will never give up its TNW against India
3: Pakistan will not sacrifice its own interests in War on terror for the sake of some one else interests.

United States non serious attitude regarding war on terror and its habit to enforce its interests on its allies are the factors that Afghanistan is still in mess.

Handing over Afghanistan to India was a suicidal policy ........ It will force Pakistan and India to fight proxy wars in Afghanistan for gaining their interests.

When ever Pakistan will try to bring Afghan Taliban in talks, India and pro Indian lobbies in Afghan government will deliberately sabotage the table talk.

The situation in Afghanistan will determine the future of Pak-USA relations, Indo Pak relations and global politics will take shape accordingly.

 

[VCheng]

I was curious to know the reaction to this article.

The article is equal parts begging, confusion, threats and demands. Please give us more F-16s but we have no idea on how to control terrorism within our borders, and if we fail as a state, the whole area will go up in flames, but it is all okay if you treat us on par with India on all matters nuclear. Of course, such childish tantrums have no place in international geopolitics, but they play well to the internal audience, such as that found on PDF.

 

[Levina]

The article is equal parts begging, confusion, threats and demands. Please give us more F-16s but we have no idea on how to control terrorism within our borders, and if we fail as a state, the whole area will go up in flames, but it is all okay if you treat us on par with India on all matters nuclear. Of course, such childish tantrums have no place in international geopolitics, but they play well to the internal audience, such as that found on PDF.

But don't you think America has its way of manipulating its allies?

 

[VCheng]

But don't you think America has its way of manipulating its allies?

All countries try to do what is best for their own respective national interests. America is not unique in this regard at all.

 

[Levina]

All countries try to do what is best for their own respective national interests. America is not unique in this regard at all.

You know my opinion about America.
I prefer having an enemy who says he hates me than having a "friend" who puts me down secretly. But then discussing US relations vis a vis India will be off topic on this thread.

 

[VCheng]

You know my opinion about America.
I prefer having an enemy who says he hates me than having a "friend" who puts me down secretly. But then discussing US relations vis a vis India will be off topic on this thread.

To remain on topic in this thread, one could easily argue that it is Pakistan that has made a fool out of USA and manipulated it very cleverly over the past few decades to its own advantage.

 

[Levina]

To remain on topic in this thread, one could easily argue that it is Pakistan that has made a fool out of USA and manipulated it very cleverly over the past few decades to its own advantage.

You gotta be kidding me.
America needed Pakistan against USSR, in Afghanistan. Pak knew that by supporting America in Afghan issue, it can conflate US to Kashmir issue in return. A complete symbiosis!
Regardless of whether this is called a strategic or transactional relationship, it has served the interests of the two countries over the last six decades. Lets accept it that US of A tolerated the differences when there were overriding strategic interests. But when these interests had been served, it resorted to sanctions, and Pakistan responded with its own devices.
Now that America needs India and Pakistan needs China, the relationship between Pak and US went Kaput. Should I, as an outsider, be surprised at all?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Unfortunately, people like the OP writer should know better, but obviously do not. That is why Pakistan fails at diplomacy so badly and so consistently.

I dad is very sick and bedridden. He is living history book of events in Pakistan's history going back to early 1950s. I often find myself talking with him about his early days in Pakistan during Ayub Khan era. His first job after university was as site foreman working with US Army Corp of Engineers who were building huge military cantonment in Kharian in Northern Punjab.

He was incredibly impressed by the American's and Canadians with their go and get things done attitude. He recollects how America "built Pakistan" during formative part of Pakistan's history. From dams, to roads, to new capital, to Pakistan Airforce, to building up the Pakistan Army to even providing help with rocketry from NASA. Massive financial support was provided by USA at time when the number of taxpayers in Pakistan could be counted in one hand. Even nearly 70 years later we all know about the Pakistani people's taxpaying habits. So in effect the American taxpayer built up Pakistan from almost nothing.

Here we are 70 years later and the Pakistani public still expect the American taxpayer to subsidise the purchase of F-16s. The reality is countries look after their interests. Where they diverge they go their separate ways. Where they converge they do business. Where they diverge they don't throw a teenage pussy tantrum. Munir Akram as seasoned diplomat should know that. Instead he just feeds the ignorant Pakistani public more bucketloads of ignorance.

If it was not for America Pakistan would have been gobbled up by India within a decade of 1947 as Nehru had hoped with good reason. That never happened because Pakistan and America interests converged and trhe result was Pakistan recieved more aid military or otherwise than it could even dreamed of.

For example in from 1954 Pakistan began recieving 120 Sabre jets. Think about this. A poor country that only became indepandent 7 years earlier recieved modern jets which Pakistan would struggle to buy in 2016.

As my dad said. Governments are only reflection of the people. And you know what type of governments Pakistan gets. He went on to laugh that there are queues outside US embassy with 100,000s of Pakistani's living in US. 10s of Dawa groups go to USA every year. Dozens of mosques have been built by Pakistani ex pats in USA.

Try that in the "all weather friend" China and ses what happens. They will slap you, bend you over and kick you out. No worries. Pakistan is the whipping boy of US. This superpower has nothing better to do.

 

[VCheng]

You gotta be kidding me.
America needed Pakistan against USSR, in Afghanistan. Pak knew that by supporting America in Afghan issue, it can conflate US to Kashmir issue in return. A complete symbiosis!
Regardless of whether this is called a strategic or transactional relationship, it has served the interests of the two countries over the last six decades. Lets accept it that US of A tolerated the differences when there were overriding strategic interests. But when these interests had been served, it resorted to sanctions, and Pakistan responded with its own devices.
Now that America needs India and Pakistan needs China, the relationship between Pak and US went Kaput. Should I, as an outsider, be surprised at all?

Consider the following post, that shows clearly just how much Pakistan got out of USA, and all USA received in return was hate and ridicule. Who is the clever one here?

I dad is very sick and bedridden. He is living history book of events in Pakistan's history going back to early 1950s. I often find myself talking with him about his early days in Pakistan during
Ayub Khan era. His first job after university was as site foreman working with US Army Corp of Engineers who were building huge military cantonment in Kharian in Northern Punjab.

He was incredibly impressed by the American's and Canadians with their go and get things done attitude. He recollects how America "built Pakistan" during formative part of Pakistan's history. From dams, to roads, to new capital, to Pakistan Airforce, to building up the Pakistan Army to even providing help with rocketry from NASA. Massive financial support was provided by USA at time when the number of taxpayers in Pakistan could be counted in one hand. Even nearly 70 years later we all know about the Pakistani people's taxpaying habits. So in effect the American taxpayer built up Pakistan from almost nothing.

Here we are 70 years later and the Pakistani public still expect the American taxpayer to subsidise the purchase of F-16s. The reality is countries look after their interests. Where they diverge they go their separate ways. Where they converge they do business. Where they diverge they don't through a teenage pussy tantrums. Munir Akram as seasoned diplomat should know that. Instead he just feeds the ignorant Pakistani public more bucketloads of ignorance.

If it was not for America Pakistan would have been gobbled up by India within a decade of 1947 as Nehru had hoped with good reason. That never happened because Pakistan and America interests converged and trhe result was Pakistan recieved more aid military or otherwise than it could even dreamed of.

For example in from 1954 Pakistan began recieving 120 Sabre jets. Think about this. A poor country that only became indepandent 7 years earlier recieved modern jets which Pakistan would struggle to buy in 2016.

As my dad said. Governments are only reflection of the people. And you know what type of governments Pakistan gets. He went on to laugh that there are queues outside US embassy with 100,000s of Pakistani's living in US. 10s of Dawa groups go to USA every year. Dozens of mosques have been built by Pakistani ex pats in USA.

Try that in the "all weather friend" China and ses what happens. They will slap you, bend you over and kick you out. No worries. Pakistan is the whipping boy of US. This superpower has nothing better to do.

 

[Arsalan]

Yes, those are the claims made by the Gurnamint of Pakistan. None of the statistics claimed are verified or even verifiable by any other resource, Sir.

Edit: For example, claims such as "Of $6.63 billion lost due to terrorist attacks in 2013-14, 38% represented reduced tax collection and 30% reduced foreign investment" are made, but such failures to collect tax or attract investment are due to failure of governance more than anything else.

The claims count sir, if they didn't, claims of WMD in Iraq wont have been the reason to destroy that country!!
I know that might is right but that wont stop right from being right!! Whether one chose to admit it or simply turn a blinds eye.

 

[Levina]

Consider the following post, that shows clearly just how much Pakistan got out of USA, and all USA received in return was hate and ridicule. Who is the clever one here?

Come on!
America has not been victimized yet, or it would not have retained the hegemony.

Consider the following post, that shows clearly just how much Pakistan got out of USA, and all USA received in return was hate and ridicule

The gist of his post was, Pakistan always expects others to help it, be it America or China, which is true...or so I believe.
TBH, if America was not the super power that it is, then the media would have hectored America for all its wrong doings.

 

[VCheng]

The claims count sir,

So when is Pakistan getting $100 billion that it claims it lost due to the WoT?