America's murderous drone campaign is fuelling terror: The Guardian

[muse]

I think beyond expressing anger and frustration at each other - there must be a serious effort to come to an understanding about the legality of Drones in the absence of declaring war -- The US position is that they are legal, no amount screaming and shouting about their illegality will help the case of those who disagree, however, there is no dearth of legal experts and it's quite surprising that a international legal challenge has not been mounted - why not??

After all, if the international courts of law decide that they are legal in the absence of a declaration of war, then there will be tremendous pressure to amend positions, similarly if the argument that their use in the absence of a declaration of war is illegal, Mr. Obama (see Kill decisions) will be viewed legally, in the light of the judgement and will either choose to live as a fugitive or surrender as a assassin.

 

[Awesome]

I think beyond expressing anger and frustration at each other - there must be a serious effort to come to an understanding about the legality of Drones in the absence of declaring war -- The US position is that they are legal, no amount screaming and shouting about their illegality will help the case of those who disagree, however, there is no dearth of legal experts and it's quite surprising that a international legal challenge has not been mounted - why not??

The first steps have been taken by some affected British Pakistanis where they are suing British and Pak governments. But these are only individuals. We need a nation state to stand up for this cause.

Pak Government is a guilty party in all of this and deserve to face trial, they are no less guilty in the murder of Pakistanis and when it all comes down to trial, all the leaders of the past 5-10 years would be found guilty of high crimes against the nation.

 

[Jango]

The first steps have been taken by some affected British Pakistanis where they are suing British and Pak governments. But these are only individuals. We need a nation state to stand up for this cause.

Pak Government is a guilty party in all of this and deserve to face trial, they are no less guilty in the murder of Pakistanis and when it all comes down to trial, all the leaders of the past 5-10 years would be found guilty of high crimes against the nation.

I would love that day to come, when Zardari and mush and all others stand in a court.

 

[lem34]

Pak Government is a guilty party in all of this and deserve to face trial, they are no less guilty in the murder of Pakistanis and when it all comes down to trial, all the leaders of the past 5-10 years would be found guilty of high crimes against the nation.

I can not help feeling that our establishment is in some way complicit. After all has President Prime minister Parliament given instructions to PA to stop these attacks?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Same topic again and again... WHy don't u shoot it, rather than propagating propaganda...

we... my dear are here to debate and exchange ideas. its a forum
not a war council writing the life and death certificates of people

so stop being a smarty and share your ideas for whatever they are worth rather than a condescending oneliner that serves no purpose

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I think beyond expressing anger and frustration at each other - there must be a serious effort to come to an understanding about the legality of Drones in the absence of declaring war -- The US position is that they are legal, no amount screaming and shouting about their illegality will help the case of those who disagree, however, there is no dearth of legal experts and it's quite surprising that a international legal challenge has not been mounted - why not??

After all, if the international courts of law decide that they are legal in the absence of a declaration of war, then there will be tremendous pressure to amend positions, similarly if the argument that their use in the absence of a declaration of war is illegal, Mr. Obama (see Kill decisions) will be viewed legally, in the light of the judgement and will either choose to live as a fugitive or surrender as a assassin.

sadly its a bad and a sad day for speaking up and making a protest. today the British courts have rejected Wikileaks co-founder's extradition appeal.

its a harsh warning for all the whistle blowers of present and future not to speak up and point out the wrong doings (war crimes in case of America)

the Americans and their Indian fanbase never tire themselves of complaining and criticizing Pakistan over the detention of Dr Afridi but American media & politicians are never shy about expressing the desire of executing Julian Assange (once he gets bundled up & sent over to America)for the espionage charges which themselves are so ridiculous , stupid but chilling at the same time.

while we have to bear the criticism for convicting Dr Afridi for unlawfully working undercover for a foreign entity. they frequently & openly in the talk shows and news articles are giving death sentence to a whistle blower.

coming to taking it to an international court of law, the host country and judges will be put on so much pressure by Americans that a fair trial will be a fantasy and maybe Americans wont even have to do it if the judges include British members who will say "how much high " when the Americans will tell them to jump.

Pakistanis can join with western anti-war lobby for this case but I think people are having to rethink their position when it seems that Julian might be extradited to Sweden for the alleged sex charges and then to America to face punishment for blowing the lid off the American dark secrets.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

now Americans are thinking about bypassing UN and international law and attack Syria to topple its government and install its proxy regime
talk about blatant disregard for every single letter of their favourite punch line "Justice and freedom"

 

[Developereo]

Is it possible to have a sticky thread listing the names of people killed in drone strikes, and separate them into known militants, known civilians, and unknowns?

The categorization of militants/civilians would have to be absolutely beyond reproach because any mistakes would be capitalized upon by the detractors to discredit the whole listing.

 

[muse]

And additionally, we must grant that Drone attacks have killed militants but that our position is not that they have not but rather that civilian casualties are .....

 

[fd24]

Is it possible to have a sticky thread listing the names of people killed in drone strikes, and separate them into known militants, known civilians, and unknowns?

The categorization of militants/civilians would have to be absolutely beyond reproach because any mistakes would be capitalized upon by the detractors to discredit the whole listing.

The list would take months to construct. Also with Obamas definition of what is a terrorist has recently changed. It looks like if you now have 2 legs and can walk - in the eyes of the US you are now classified a terrorist

 

[Armstrong]

now Americans are thinking about bypassing UN and international law and attack Syria to topple its government and install its proxy regime
talk about blatant disregard for every single letter of their favourite punch line "Justice and freedom"

The surprising thing is that most of us still hold onto the belief that 'International Laws and Conventions' are some sort of a sacred covenant when there is ample evidence to the contrary; in fact History is riddled with such examples leading back to the 'League of Nations' and the subsequent formations of the 'United Nations' ! The sooner this realization kicks in the sooner would our disbelief and outrage be converted into a constructive, well-thought out reply !

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

The list would take months to construct. Also with Obamas definition of what is a terrorist has recently changed. It looks like if you now have 2 legs and can walk - in the eyes of the US you are now classified a terrorist

You forgot the criteria of having to be in Pakistan...

 

[Developereo]

The list would take months to construct.

The Pakistani govt./media make a statement after every strike saying 'x civilians' were killed, so somebody must be keeping tabs on who was killed.

Also with Obamas definition of what is a terrorist has recently changed. It looks like if you now have 2 legs and can walk - in the eyes of the US you are now classified a terrorist

That's the whole point. List the names of people killed and, for each person, show the US charge sheet or absence of one!

 

[Awesome]

You forgot the criteria of having to be in Pakistan...

and Somalia AND Yemen

.......... and the latest update is, they are going after their own citizens with drones. How merciful would they be on criteria after all the monstrous mentality is the same

Va. governor backs domestic drones for police use | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

 

[Developereo]

.......... and the latest update is, they are going after their own citizens with drones. How merciful would they be on criteria after all the monstrous mentality is the same

Va. governor backs domestic drones for police use | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Those are unarmed drones. US law would never tolerate execution without trial of anyone on US soil.