What's new

(American Perspective) Time Is Short as U.S. Presses a Reluctant Pakistan

spurdozer

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
157
Reaction score
0
Time Is Short as U.S. Presses a Reluctant Pakistan




By JANE PERLEZ
Published: April 5, 2009

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — President Obama’s strategy of offering Pakistan a partnership to defeat the insurgency here calls for a virtual remaking of this nation’s institutions and even of the national psyche, an ambitious agenda that Pakistan’s politicians and people appear unprepared to take up.


Officially, Pakistan’s government welcomed Mr. Obama’s strategy, with its hefty infusions of American money, hailing it as a “positive change.” But as the Obama administration tries to bring Pakistanis to its side, large parts of the public, the political class and the military have brushed off the plan, rebuffing the idea that the threat from Al Qaeda and the Taliban, which Washington calls a common enemy, is so urgent.

Some, including the army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, and the president, Asif Ali Zardari, may be coming around. But for the military, at least, India remains priority No. 1, as it has for the 61 years of Pakistan’s existence.


How to shift that focus in time for Pakistan to defeat a fast-expanding Islamic insurgency that threatens to devour the country is the challenge facing Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Richard C. Holbrooke, the special envoy to the region, as they arrive in Pakistan for talks early this week.

Strengthening Pakistan’s weak civilian institutions, updating political parties rooted in feudal loyalties and recasting a military fixated on yesterday’s enemy, and stuck in the traditions of conventional warfare, are generational challenges. But Pakistan may not have the luxury of the long term to meet them.

Some analysts here and in Washington are already putting forward apocalyptic timetables for the country. “We are running out of time to help Pakistan change its present course toward increasing economic and political instability, and even ultimate failure,” said a recent report by a task force of the Atlantic Council that was led by former Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts. The report, released in February, gave the Pakistani government 6 to 12 months before things went from bad to dangerous.

A specialist in guerrilla warfare, David Kilcullen, who advised Gen. David H. Petraeus when General Petraeus was the American commander in Iraq, offered a more dire assessment. Pakistan could be facing internal collapse within six months, he said.
:blah:

General Petraeus, in Congressional testimony last week, called the insurgency one that could “take down” the country, which is home to Qaeda militants and has nuclear arms.

Even before the insurgency has been fully engaged, however, many Pakistanis have concluded that reaching an accommodation with the militants is preferable to fighting them. Some, including mid-ranking soldiers, choose to see the militants not as the enemy, but as fellow Muslims who are deserving of greater sympathy than are the American aims.

It is problematic whether the backing of Mr. Zardari, and the Obama’s administration’s promise of $1.5 billion in aid for each of the next five years, can change the mood in the country, said a former interior minister, Aftab Ahmad Sherpao, who visited Washington last fall to meet with some of the people who are now officials in the Obama administration.

Fighting the insurgency is commonly seen in Pakistan as an American cause, not a Pakistani one, he said.

There are questions, too, of whether the Obama offer of nearly $3 billion in counterinsurgency aid can quickly convert the Pakistani military from a force trained to fight India on the plains of Punjab into an outfit that can conquer the mountains of the tribal areas, where the militants operate.

“After such a long time of being with the Americans, the country has been through such stress and strain and nothing good has come of it,” Mr. Sherpao said. “A cross-section of people is dead set against the Americans. Another section is not happy but not vocal. About 1 to 2 percent would say this policy of America should continue.”

The distrust has been heightened by charges from American officials, including General Petraeus and Mr. Holbrooke, that Pakistan’s spy agency is still supporting the Islamic militants who pour over the border to fight American troops in Afghanistan.

A former director general of the agency Inter-Services Intelligence, Lt. Gen. Javed Ashraf, said the American opinions — long held but now publicly stated — did not augur well. A spokesman for the Pakistani military called them “baseless” and part of a “malicious campaign.”

“You can’t start a successful operation with a trust deficit,” General Ashraf said. “Pakistan is an ally. But then you say we are linked with the Taliban. The serving army people will say, ‘To hell with them if this is what we are going to get after laying down more than 1,500 lives.’ ” That is the number of soldiers the Pakistani Army says have been killed fighting the militants in the tribal areas.
:tsk:

The lack of trust was evident, military analysts said, in the American refusal to consider a request from the Pakistani military that it operate the remotely piloted aircraft the C.I.A. has been using to hit the militants in the tribal areas.

Although those Predator drones have been successful in killing top Qaeda operatives, a factor acknowledged privately by Pakistani officials, the attacks continued to be criticized even as the new Pakistani-American partnership was supposed to be taking root.

“Predator strikes are not a strategy — not even part of a strategy,” a former army chief of staff and ambassador to Washington, Gen. Jehangir Karamat, said in a front-page article in the newspaper The Nation. “They are tactical actions to ratchet up body counts.”

The Americans have been stingy on even the more basic tools for guerrilla warfare, like helicopter gunships and night-vision goggles, which Pakistan has requested for the past three years, Pakistani military officials say. There are still doubts that Washington will deliver such equipment speedily, they say. :tsk:

Then there is India. Its growing presence in Afghanistan — the building of roads; the opening since 2001 of two consulates in two cities close to Pakistan — makes Pakistan believe it is being encircled, said Ishaq Khan Khakwani, a former senator from the Pakistan Muslim League-Q party.


Pakistanis complain that even though Mr. Obama, during his European trip, called for dialogue between India and Pakistan, his plans fail to address this major strategic concern.

“The United States has to get India to back off in Afghanistan,” said Mr. Khakwani, who is sympathetic to the American position. “Then Pakistan will see Indian interference is diminished and that will give confidence to Pakistan.”
:angry:

The deep questioning about why the Pakistani Army should fight the Taliban reaches well down into the ranks of the soldiers and their families. Dissent on that goal has become increasingly prevalent among rank-and-file soldiers, and even in the officer corps, said Riffat Hussain, a professor of international relations at Quaid-i-Azam University here who also lectures to soldiers at the National Defense University.

There have been at least a half-dozen reported courts-martial of soldiers who refused to fight, and the real number was probably larger, Professor Hussain said.

In Jhelum, a town 100 miles south of Islamabad and a place with a proud military history, one village had shown in the boldest terms the anger about the military fighting Muslims on Pakistani soil, said Enver Baig, a former senator with the Pakistan Peoples Party, who considers himself a pro-American politician.

When the body of a soldier killed in the tribal areas was taken home to his family last year, the father refused to accept his son’s coffin, Mr. Baig said.

Instead, the father took off his shoe and used it to slap the army officer who had escorted the body.

A month later, when another soldier’s body was delivered to the same village, the army left the body on the village outskirts, Mr. Baig said.
:eek:



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/06/world/asia/06islamabad.html?pagewanted=2&ref=asia
 
.
dotn worry about the 'six months' thing. such six months have come and gone many times before. InshAllah nothing will happen to Pakistan:pakistan:
 
.
if pakistan falls to taliban, India and the west should start counting their days.
 
.
"...if pakistan falls to taliban, India and the west should start counting their days."

Really?

This thought should be foremost on the minds of Pakistanis. How WILL India and the west react to a taliban takeover?

Sanctions?:lol:
 
.
"...if pakistan falls to taliban, India and the west should start counting their days."

Really?

This thought should be foremost on the minds of Pakistanis. How WILL India and the west react to a taliban takeover?

Sanctions?:lol:

S2....the US policies in this region and the bullshit knee jerk reaction in the region...will eventually lead to US defeat....despite the massive firepower.......i recollect..........once ...a long time ago.....a superpower was humbled and was humiliated as it exited......hmmm..........I feel that it will not be too long before another superpower is humbled!

Arrogant powers are eventually destroyed.....look at history!........:usflag:
 
.
"...if pakistan falls to taliban, India and the west should start counting their days."

Really?

This thought should be foremost on the minds of Pakistanis. How WILL India and the west react to a taliban takeover?

Sanctions?:lol:

This is a popular belief which spans across all the strata of Pakistani society. If & when Pakistan goes down, it will do so with a big nuclear bang. And will take India & Western countries along with. I seriously don't know where it's coming from. They have used this threat successfully till the moment, to get all the aid & military apparatus they needed.

It remains to be seen till when the world heeds to it.
 
.
Well, actually that depends upon how much of our military and nuclear infrastructure they take intact. But lucky for everyone, that bridge is something we won’t be crossing anytime soon. So let’s not get ahead of ourselves…

When the body of a soldier killed in the tribal areas was taken home to his family last year, the father refused to accept his son’s coffin, Mr. Baig said. Instead, the father took off his shoe and used it to slap the army officer who had escorted the body. A month later, when another soldier’s body was delivered to the same village, the army left the body on the village outskirts, Mr. Baig said.

If something like this happened, it would've been big. These things tend to spread fast, what with camp gossip and all. I know of soldiers who've refused to fight, but they were just NCOs in their dozens. However nothing as remarkable as this has happened in Jhelum I'm sure. Baig, like so many of his kind, seems to have a flair for the dramatic...
 
.
if pakistan falls to taliban, India and the west should start counting their days.

You sure about that? India maybe but the rest of the world? You must remember Pakistan and The Taliban(any flavor) do not and have never posed an existential threat to the West.

If the Taliban takes over Pakistan and your Army recognizes their suzerainty and supports them then we're back to square one. I'd imagine we'd say the same thing SecState Powell told Gen Musharaff back in 2001. Welcome to the Flintstones.
 
Last edited:
.
Tell the Pakistanis in plain language that the US will not allow Pakistani nuclear establishement and weapons to fall to the Talib - and then leave them alone to figure out fight or flight for themselves - they will either find the spine or not, either way, not a problem for the West, because the nuclear establishment will be history. And if they want to be Talib and islamists, good luck to them.:wave::wave:

This will not be an act of hostility, but an act of respect. The very best thing that could have happened to Pakistan, in a long, long time.
 
.
"Tell the Pakistanis in plain language that the US will not allow Pakistani nuclear establishement and weapons to fall to the Talib..."

I'd like to think that's patently self-evident but... perhaps not. In any case, I'd be happy to make the announcement. NO NUKES FOR TALIBUNNIES.:bunny:

Maybe Jana is lurking and can pick it up and run it. That'd be cool.:cool: Hope she gives me the byline.:agree:
 
.
American officials really make me laugh; they want us to act against the Taliban but dont want to provide us with the equipment needed to fight the insurgency. They want action but they dont want to pay. We have already suffered enough from this war on terror but have just recieved a fraction of the damage that is done to the economy. If the Americans are really serious about this war on terror than provide FC with Chinooks, Apache's, Artilleries, Weapons etc. The FC is severely under resourced and is outgunned by the enemy its facing. Also i think its about time my Pakistani brothers/sisters realize that this threat is serious and we need to crush these militants. They will not stop unless they have destroyed our livelihood, we need to stop these terrorists.
 
.
American officials really make me laugh; they want us to act against the Taliban but dont want to provide us with the equipment needed to fight the insurgency. They want action but they dont want to pay. We have already suffered enough from this war on terror but have just recieved a fraction of the damage that is done to the economy. If the Americans are really serious about this war on terror than provide FC with Chinooks, Apache's, Artilleries, Weapons etc. The FC is severely under resourced and is outgunned by the enemy its facing. Also i think its about time my Pakistani brothers/sisters realize that this threat is serious and we need to crush these militants. They will not stop unless they have destroyed our livelihood, we need to stop these terrorists.

I don't want to start the same debate all over again. But one point is for sure. Lack of appropriate military apparatus is NOT the reason for your failure in fighting terrorism.
 
.
I don't want to start the same debate all over again. But one point is for sure. Lack of appropriate military apparatus is NOT the reason for your failure in fighting terrorism.

That is true, more money needs to be spent to improve the standard of living in the tribal areas. These areas are some of the most poorest in Pakistan; education and healthcare is almost nonexistent in these areas. More money needs to be spent to reduce poverty or else these poverty stricken people will more likely join the Taliban. But you cannot discount the fact that FC is under trained and equipped to fight the Taliban. But hats off to them that they still have been able to contain the Taliban with meagre resources.
 
.
wat makes u think that we will ever win this war on terror thing only with a gun??? i have said it many times that if u kill one, many more will rise. these ppl are pathans. they dont think about lif lik we do. u kill one of their family member and they wont let u get away with it. they wont just accept few lac rupees and forget the whole thing. these ppl believe in takin revenge and its a matter of pride for them. im not denyin that many criminal elements have joined them and are now spreadin terror while someothers are using their anger to achieve some political objectives. the only way to win this war is to partner with the locals which is only possible if we stop killin their childrens. lets stop pushin more ppl towards taliban which is wat we are currently doin
 
.
This is a popular belief which spans across all the strata of Pakistani society. If & when Pakistan goes down, it will do so with a big nuclear bang. And will take India & Western countries along with. I seriously don't know where it's coming from. They have used this threat successfully till the moment, to get all the aid & military apparatus they needed.

It remains to be seen till when the world heeds to it.

lik i read in an american paper that pakistan has mastered the technique of pointin the gun to her own head and threatnin the world about the possible consequences;)
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom