American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[Ambitious449]

The level and maturity in this thread is just amazing. Waiting for more deep thoughts

 

[krash]

Found a relatively unknown news piece, that most probably talks about the same attack that I mentioned in my previous post:

NATO forces had informed Pak Army of Mohmand operation, says spokesman

thecheers.org 2008-06-12 03:07:53

Washington, June 12 : A spokesman for the US coalition forces operating in Afghanistan has said that Pakistan was informed about the attack on the check post at Mohmand Agency in NWFP, which killed 11 Frontier Corps' troops, and that it was carried out in self-defence.

Confirming the aerial attack, spokesman for the US-led NATO forces in Afghanistan, Lt. Nathan Perry, said that the attack was carried out after an unmanned aerial system identified anti-Afghan forces firing at coalition forces. "In self-defence, coalition forces fired artillery rounds at the militants," the Dawn quoted Perry as saying.

He added that the coalition forces had come under fire "during an operation that had been previously coordinated with Pakistan". "Shortly after the attack began, coalition forces informed the Pakistan Army that they were being engaged by anti-Afghan forces in a wooded area near the Gora Prai checkpoint," he said.

Lt Perry claimed that an unmanned aerial system identified additional anti-Afghan forces joining the attack against the coalition forces. "While maintaining positive identification of the enemy, close-air support was then used by coalition forces to gain fire superiority until the threat was eliminated," the spokesman said and added, "at no time did coalition ground forces cross into Pakistan."

To a question if missiles and artillery shells fired by coalition forces hit targets inside Pakistan, the spokesman said: "Yes, that's correct."

US-led NATO forces have launched several air strikes inside Pakistan's tribal areas over the last year, but this is the first time that the Pakistan Army has directly blamed US-led NATO forces for killing its soldiers.

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If we change the date, and the number of dead soldiers, there will be no difference between this strike, and the strike that took place on 26th of last month. Even the events took place at almost the same place - Gora Pai. But nothing happened at that time. Not even talks of blocking the routes, or taking a notice of Shamsi, or any such thing.

Because there's one difference, a big one - This incident rarely got talked in the media, whereas the latest one, we are spending days and nights deliberating over it. The Army has to make sure that people understand it is still in control of the situation. Only that... living up to the larger than life image, that's not easy.

That does seem very plausible, however their might also be another explanation. The reporting of the media might itself be questioned. The media here mostly picks up on national issues either through the governmental institutions or from other media forums from the outside world. Now the incident which you have reported could have just as easily been picked up and reported from the same source by the Pakistani media as well (The media here is quite good at this and hungry for such spice laden news). Now, as I understand, there could have been two reasons for this not happening. 1) They might not have deemed this news as important enough or 2) they might have been barred by the authorities from raising it. The later seems more probable.

What we see this time is the media jumping on and around this news shouting there heads off. The authorities too are not staying quiet. So the question presented is "What gives?". Something is obviously different this time. What I speculate is that this time the authorities (read: The military) themselves want this issue to be raised. Instead of muzzling the media or at least staying quiet, with a perfunctory remark here or there, in hopes of waiting out the public angst (OBL case) they themselves are a participant in the holler. They want this to catch flame. The reason behind that might be strategic, political and/or plain old outrage (Lets face it the US and Pakistani militaries arent quite communicating on the same wave length as they did before). The relationship between the two isn't quite what it was back in 2008. There could yet be another reason. In 2008 the Pakistani establishment might not have reckoned its side of the scale heavy enough to face off against the US. This time they might hold a different hand.

So in my view the military's response is not being dictated by the public uproar this time. They've gotten quite good at restraining, parrying and ignoring public sentiments.

Nonetheless and frankly speaking this issue is still just another issue between the two and it too will be resolved accordingly. No one is going to war or severing any relations. Both Pakistan and the US work on the basis of 'need of the other' and the need isnt going anywhere soon on either side. Whether this time Pakistan can come out more satisfied is what is to be seen.

The Pakistani military isnt quite as dumb as people would have you believe. It also isnt that big a 'lap dog' that some might claim. What one cant deny is that they operate in accordance with their interests, although at times their interests might not align with that of the nation. They are not just incompetent generals sitting higher up hungry just for money. After all they are running the only competent and efficient institution in Pakistan.

ps: It is sad how politics, diplomacy and strategic loss or gain can overshadow the value of the precious lost lives.

 

[iPhone]

All good points. Especially spot on about the delaying the report to cool-off and to start a media spin. The Masters of the Universe are the Masters of the Global Propaganda War a la Goebbels.

Back to the topic:
Like Dawn.com 's Mahir Ali who wrote recently, I too find it hard to believe that Nato would deliberately attack a Pakistani post where soldiers were SLEEPING in their tents. What is the gain for Nato? May be this was really a Taliban ploy to cause fire fight between Nato and PA?
But then, to the dozens of mothers who lost their loved ones it matters little. Facts are that the soldiers died inside the Pakistani territory and that at least some of them died while sleeping in their tents; this hardly sounds like some Pakistani officer giving marching orders to soldiers to fire toward Afghanistan!
My guess is that the sustained propaganda war against Pakistan has resulted in such low opinions of Pakistani lives that some young lads commanding helis--lads used to shoot 'enemies' in video games with glee and satisfaction--saw it immaterial to check themselves. 'Pakis' are the new 'gooks', the new 'saveges', the new 'commies'. So let's go Turkey shooting, boys!

well said. I'm glad somebody pointed out the moral and psychological reasons behind the attack.

Add to that, along with the propaganda through media look at what is happening on the ground. Years of drone operations and mass murder of innocents as a result, they still have the green signal to continue what they're doing. The soldiers and officers running the drone campaigns dont get punished for the killings of innocent human beings, they get medals, official recognitions, a pat on the back with a 'good job hoot.'

Last time in recent histroy this much disregard displayed to human life was during the vietnam war. Where soldiers operated on their own accord the deeper they went. But even they were able to show remorse for the dispicable acts of crimes against humanity they committed. The American public and media criticized them for it. But here even these two are cheering the killings, out of ignorance and sometimes out of revenge.

A white American kills two Pakistanis in broad day light in a major city, a third pedestrian is crushed and killed by a speeding American vehicle and they all go scott free. What message are you sending the world with that? that Pakistani blood can be spilled like water with no consequences.

Is it any surprise, after all this, that Nato did what it without showing any regard or remorse for attacking Pakistani posts and killing soldiers with impunity. They dont care. Because they know they can and will get away with it. It's the same as shooting computerized pixels in the VR training rooms.

Forget nato and the rest of the world, this has effected our own people too, our Pakistanis many times dont care much Pakistani blood spilled at the hands of foreigners. In these very threads, members have expressed relief, hey, good thing our soldiers didnt shoot down their helis otherwise repurcussion would have been severe. Are kidding me? we're being showered with hell fire missiles and we're not allowed to shoot back at the white christians?

Even if Nato acted on Afghan intelligence, I will have you know they didn't care what they shot at. They determined, the target is in our crosshairs, if it's taliban, great, if it's Pakistani soldiers, who cares. Either way we get to shoot and destroy something.

 

[Mercenary]

so bro, if you're gonna wait till the nato's report comes out to get a clearer picture then you maybe should also refrain from making wild assumptions that are directly in contrast to and totally contradict Pak's investigative report.

I havent made any wild assumptions. I am just stating on what the facts have been released so far. But there are too unanswered questions which need to be answered.

 

[bdslph]

there has to written guarantee that they will not do that again next time restore the supply route is a minute thing and there not only apology and also a pay compensate for the 24 solider family killed and many other wounded and also a far better communication system in border area and also SAM system of Pakistan should be there in border (the rule of SAM is that if fired and killed Pakistan solider that is the time SAM will be used ) ,
then there will be counter balance so next time they wont go cowboy

America and NATO has a good relation with India already
and many will blame that Pakistan is the fault of having bad relations, it went bad as they are killing even Pakistan Solider
it is not how is it it is in side the mind of USA and NATO they don't like Pakistan . considers enemy

there are ways to cut the heat down all parties has to work

 

[jynxed]

In Quran Allah States "Ohh Muslims arm yourselves to teeth that your enemy shell never even think of attacking you with the fear of your strength"

I have read that and didn't understand why is this statement stands out so much but the recent events and everything that has been going on for past 12 years or so in Pakistan tells you exactly that we have diverted our ways from Allah and Quran and the result is in front of us
we are ruled by cruel and corrupt leaders which delivers the results that are infront of all of us

**** politics and everything else just think of families who have lost loved ones and for what ................

 

[bdslph]

that is a good decision, now they want u back more as Taliban feels more comfort talk to Pakistan then NATO and USA

 

[W.11]

Pakistan should hold its own conference in Islamabad with Iran, Russia, China, and Afghan Taliban.

We all know Afghan Taliban are the main people who will decide Afghanistan's future thats why U.S. is desperate to get them come to the table.

that is a very nice suggestion

 

[Black Widow]

The article considers the US to the battered wife, & Pakistan to be the abusive husband. It's not surprising such a poor article is coming from Fox News, symptomatic of the US mentality these days.

Fox is like Aaj tak, they are absurd and full of BS.. So ignore it...

 

[TaimiKhan]

Its even more sadder to see how gullible some educated Pakistanis can be.

Correction plz, some Ex-Pakistani currently Americans.

 

[bdslph]

YES I AM thinking there must be another base

 

[bdslph]

that is the only way to do it cannot satisfy every party

 

[TaimiKhan]

If I count the number of posts that talked of 2.5 km distance as a clinching factor of why this was not a mistake but unprovoked assault, I am sure those will form a large part of the marathon thread on this.. More such gaps will emerge between now and 23rd dec in my view..

Also I don't understand how were mortars used against helis...

What's the use of a border post which is 2.5KM inside the border. technically it doesn't becomes a border post as 2.5KM inside the territory it can not see anything happening on the border.

Plus, many times in such terrains there are other posts which are nearby in needs of emergency or as back up. I have spent 2-3 years in AJK and there are so many posts right on the border rather peaks being shared by Indian & Pak soldiers at the same time, but both sides having back-up posts 300-400 or a KM away incase the post at the border is overran or needs back up, it can be provided in time. So, who knows there is a Company HQ / back up post which was there and it may be 2.5Km away from the posts which got attacked, and the unnamed sources by mistake mentioned that post, since he was not sure of the layout or what was hit.

And as someone said, we have to look what the official version by ISPR or the media briefing said.

And they fired air burst rounds, which if lucky can be useful against airborne targets as these shells explode in the air at a certain height, thus shrapnel all around the place.

 

[Tehmasib]

We all knows that shamsi is not important for US now....trying to mixup pakistani nation

 

[TaimiKhan]

Anatomy of a Deadly NATO Airstrike: The Pakistani Version - TIME

The Pakistanis are so irate that they have decided to boycott the forthcoming international security conference on Afghanistan in Bonn, despite appeals from Afghan President Hamid Karzai and German Chancellor Angela Merkel. The NATO supply routes to Afghanistan are still closed. If they remain closed for 30 days, NATO forces will find it particularly difficult to obtain the fuel they need. The routes from Karachi are their only supply line for fuel.

This is the kicker here, we hold a very strong bargaining chip, Russia does not allow POL products to be transported by the NDN. And POL cannot be brought in by Aircraft.

Here comes Russia:

After Pakistan Closes U.S. Supply Routes to Afghanistan, Russia Warns About the Northern Route, Too | CNSnews.com

WAFF | World's Armed Forces Forum: Russia threatens to close only supply route into Afghanistan

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