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American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

Many of the same officials also pointed out that they had no actual evidence that Pakistani forces were either providing cover for militants or firing themselves.
I mean in that particular moment when NATO forces came under fire, if they had reasons to believe that fire was being staged from teh Pakistani post, they would have acted immediately, given the build up thru the likes of the BBC documentary.


It would appear so, though it does not rule out fighter jets as well.

Which would again make absence of PAF even more glaring..
 
Two US senators call for tough line with Pakistan

jon-kyl-reut.jpg-543.jpg

Jon Kyl of Arizona, the Senate's No. 2 Republican, says ''tough diplomacy'' is needed and US aid must be contingent upon Pakistan's cooperation in fighting al-Qaida. -Reuters File Photo

WASHINGTON: Senior lawmakers suggested Sunday that the US take a harder line with Pakistan, after Islamabad retaliated for Nato’s deadly misfire by closing parts of its border with Afghanistan and demanding the US vacate a drone base.

Two US senators call for tough line with Pakistan | World | DAWN.COM
They can take their 'tough line' and shove it you know where.
 
I was referring to NATO firefinder units. The response that led to the Pakistani casualties is presently thought to be the result of fire emanating from those locations, but that matter is under investigation.

You are b@tching in the entire thread that we should wait for the investigations and reports, yet you are speculating all sorts of things.Stop your idiotic posting in this thread.
 
I mean in that particular moment when NATO forces came under fire, if they had reasons to believe that fire was being staged from teh Pakistani post, they would have acted immediately, given the build up thru the likes of the BBC documentary.
TV reports do not determine SOP's and policies - as I pointed out, post locations have been provided and PA liaisons are present at various ISAF bases - that is the entire point of 'coordinating operations and having lines of communication open'.

How the hell does NATO expect Pakistan to figure out what is what in this terrain when it cannot even communicate properly?
Which would again make absence of PAF even more glaring..
Not really - as pointed out already, depends on whether that area had radar coverage and whether radar coverage was effective and whether the absence of the PAF was for reasons it has been absent in the case of some Taliban ambushes - lack of coordination b/w PAF and PA and/or lack of resources.
 
Darkness would have an impact on the troops on the ground pinpointing the location of fire in the middle of combat - I was not referring to the radar, and the quotes from Afghan officials do not refer to the radar operators determining the location of the fire, but the Afghan troops on the ground. Don't invent your own facts to excuse NATO atrocities please.

I am not finding any excuses. Firefinder coverage works day and night, and how that coverage is provided would not be known to the Afghan officials.

Second, with respect to 'no time for clearance' - that is precisely what ISAF-PA liaisons and communication channels are for. For NATO to not use those channels is 'complete incompetence or collusion'.

I would wait for the investigation report to pinpoint why those channels were not used before jumping to premature conclusions that are likely to be erroneous.
 
Two US senators call for tough line with Pakistan

jon-kyl-reut.jpg-543.jpg

Jon Kyl of Arizona, the Senate's No. 2 Republican, says ''tough diplomacy'' is needed and US aid must be contingent upon Pakistan's cooperation in fighting al-Qaida. -Reuters File Photo

WASHINGTON: Senior lawmakers suggested Sunday that the US take a harder line with Pakistan, after Islamabad retaliated for Nato’s deadly misfire by closing parts of its border with Afghanistan and demanding the US vacate a drone base.

Two US senators call for tough line with Pakistan | World | DAWN.COM

kuch ghairat hai na, close NATO's supply permanently, you slave bastards, look how they treat us, first kill our soldiers and now they want tp punish pakistan for reacting to the barbaric act :angry:
 
The Daily Telegraph spoke to wounded survivors of the raid, who insisted they were victims of an unprovoked attack.

Amirzeb Khan, 23, said the area around the checkpoints, about two miles from the border, had been cleared of militants and the night had been quiet.

The attack, he said, came at about 2am. They counted four helicopters.

"Initially, we thought that the attackers were Taliban and we took positions to retaliate but then saw that at least four helicopters were shelling from above," he said from his bed at the Combined Military Hospital in Peshawar, where he was being treated for shrapnel injuries to his abdomen.

Hameedullah Wazir described a scene of chaos as an apparently indiscriminate rain of rockets exploded around the checkpoint, waking sleeping troops. He said the survivors simply ran.

"We didn't find time to respond as everything took place so quickly that we were unable to fight back," he said.


Pakistani soldiers who survived Nato attack say it was unprovoked attack - Telegraph
Better next time they/soldiers be ready for such situations if they realli wanna live cuz NATO/US is used to doing it now. They have to save themselves on their own by retaliations or somethingelse cuz the top elites don't care except talkings , and sleeps far away within their safe houses. They not gonna come and save them.....:smokin:
 
I am not finding any excuses. Firefinder coverage works day and night, and how that coverage is provided would not be known to the Afghan officials.
Again, I was not questioning the radar coverage, but the fact that it was Afghan troops on the ground that were quoted as calling in air strikes and identifying the location of the fire they were allegedly receiving, and not the radar operators, which would likely be ISAF.

So please, stop inventing your own facts.
I would wait for the investigation report to pinpoint why those channels were not used before jumping to premature conclusions that are likely to be erroneous.
There are only two possibilities 'complete incompetence or collusion' by NATO.
 
After Attacks in Pakistan, Worries in Afghanistan About Security
By ALISSA J. RUBIN and SALMAN MASOOD
Published: November 27, 2011

KABUL, Afghanistan — As investigations began on Sunday into the NATO attacks on two military outposts that killed at least 25 Pakistani soldiers, Afghan officials expressed concern about the possible long-term damage to regional security.

Afghan Foreign Ministry officials on Sunday urged Pakistan to not follow through on threats to boycott a conference on Afghanistan’s future that is scheduled for Dec. 5 in Bonn, Germany. “We hope that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will participate in the Bonn conference because the conference for us is the most important political event of the year,” a ministry spokesman, Janan Mosawi, said.

Pakistan’s participation is considered vital, officials said, given the leverage that it maintains over some of the Taliban factions fighting inside Afghanistan.

A spokeswoman of the Pakistani Ministry of Foreign Affairs said no decision had been made about attending the conference. “The matter is being examined,” the spokeswoman said.

In Washington, American officials were trying to assess how the attacks had happened. According to preliminary reports, allied forces in Afghanistan engaged in a firefight along the border and called in airstrikes. Senior Obama administration officials were also weighing the implications on a relationship that took a sharp turn for the worse after a Navy Seal commando raid killed Osama bin Laden near Islamabad in May and that has deteriorated since then.

NATO was also investigating after saying on Saturday it was likely that NATO-led airstrikes had led to the deaths of the Pakistani soldiers. “This was a tragic unintended incident,” the group’s secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said in a statement. “We will determine what happened and draw the right lessons.”

Pakistan’s foreign minister, Hina Rabbani Khar, called Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Sunday to convey the “deep sense of rage felt across Pakistan,” according to a government statement. The border attacks negate “the progress made by the two countries on improving relations and forces Pakistan to revisit the terms of engagement,” Ms. Khar was quoted as saying. Earlier, Pakistani military officials had called the attacks unprovoked acts of aggression by the United States.

Pakistan buried the dead soldiers on Sunday as thousands of protesters gathered outside the American Consulate in Karachi. A Reuters reporter said the angry crowd shouted “Down with America,” and one man climbed on the wall surrounding the heavily fortified compound and attached a Pakistani flag to the barbed wire.

One funeral, led by the army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, was held at the Corps Headquarters in Peshawar, the capital of Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa Province in northwest Pakistan near the site of the attacks. General Kayani also visited soldiers who were injured in the attacks.

On Saturday, the Pakistani government ordered the Central Intelligence Agency to vacate the drone operations it runs from Shamsi Air Base in western Pakistan within 15 days. It also closed the two main NATO supply routes into Afghanistan, including the one at Torkham. NATO forces receive roughly 40 percent of their supplies through that crossing, which runs through the Khyber Pass, and Pakistan gave no estimate for how long the routes might be shut down.

On Sunday, the state-run news media quoted Rehman Malik, the Pakistani interior minister, as saying that the NATO supply lines had “been stopped permanently.” Mr. Malik said NATO containers would not be allowed to cross the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

Hundreds of trucks remained stalled at border crossings, The Associated Press reported, leaving them vulnerable to militant attacks. About 150 trucks were destroyed during attacks about a year ago after Pakistan closed one Afghan border crossings for about 10 days in retaliation for a helicopter strike that killed two Pakistani soldiers.

This time, The A.P. said, Pakistan has closed both its crossings, and nearly 300 trucks carrying coalition supplies were backed up at Torkham and at Chaman in Baluchistan Province in the southwest.

The Pakistani government also lodged a protest with Afghanistan on Sunday about the “use of Afghan territory against Pakistan,” according to government officials. The Afghan government was urged to take steps to ensure such attacks would not be repeated.

The Bonn conference, to which more than 50 countries are sending representatives, had been intended to showcase the international commitment to Afghanistan’s security as well as its sovereignty. If Pakistan, which is widely seen as a seedbed for many Afghan insurgents, refuses to participate, Western diplomats and military officials said, there would be little doubt that the insurgency would continue.

Mr. Mosawi described the conference as important “in terms of the vision the Afghan government will be sharing with the international community, with the region in the 10 years after transition.”

“Pakistan’s participation for us is extremely important. and we hope that they will continue as they have agreed to at the Foreign Ministry level in Bonn,” he said.

Mr. Mosawi said that the Afghan government had been contacted by the Pakistani ambassador in Kabul, Afghanistan, but would not elaborate and did not respond to questions asking whether the Afghan government had been asked to take steps to limit NATO military activity on the Pakistani border.

Alissa J. Rubin reported from Kabul, and Salman Masood from Islamabad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/world/asia/afghanistan-worries-after-attacks-in-pakistan.html

---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

Two US senators call for tough line with Pakistan

jon-kyl-reut.jpg-543.jpg

Jon Kyl of Arizona, the Senate's No. 2 Republican, says ''tough diplomacy'' is needed and US aid must be contingent upon Pakistan's cooperation in fighting al-Qaida. -Reuters File Photo

WASHINGTON: Senior lawmakers suggested Sunday that the US take a harder line with Pakistan, after Islamabad retaliated for Nato’s deadly misfire by closing parts of its border with Afghanistan and demanding the US vacate a drone base.

Two US senators call for tough line with Pakistan | World | DAWN.COM

Look likes he had drink too much.
 
AM: To say that "There are only two possibilities 'complete incompetence or collusion'" is rather premature at the moment.
 
Two US senators call for tough line with Pakistan

jon-kyl-reut.jpg-543.jpg

Jon Kyl of Arizona, the Senate's No. 2 Republican, says ''tough diplomacy'' is needed and US aid must be contingent upon Pakistan's cooperation in fighting al-Qaida. -Reuters File Photo

WASHINGTON: Senior lawmakers suggested Sunday that the US take a harder line with Pakistan, after Islamabad retaliated for Nato’s deadly misfire by closing parts of its border with Afghanistan and demanding the US vacate a drone base.

Two US senators call for tough line with Pakistan | World | DAWN.COM

Classic case of ulta chor kawal ko daantay. Go f*ck yourself mercilessly please, Mr Senator(s).
 
After Attacks in Pakistan, Worries in Afghanistan About Security
By ALISSA J. RUBIN and SALMAN MASOOD
Published: November 27, 2011

KABUL, Afghanistan — As investigations began on Sunday into the NATO attacks on two military outposts that killed at least 25 Pakistani soldiers, Afghan officials expressed concern about the possible long-term damage to regional security.

Afghan Foreign Ministry officials on Sunday urged Pakistan to not follow through on threats to boycott a conference on Afghanistan’s future that is scheduled for Dec. 5 in Bonn, Germany. “We hope that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will participate in the Bonn conference because the conference for us is the most important political event of the year,” a ministry spokesman, Janan Mosawi, said.

Pakistan’s participation is considered vital, officials said, given the leverage that it maintains over some of the Taliban factions fighting inside Afghanistan.

A spokeswoman of the Pakistani Ministry of Foreign Affairs said no decision had been made about attending the conference. “The matter is being examined,” the spokeswoman said.

In Washington, American officials were trying to assess how the attacks had happened. According to preliminary reports, allied forces in Afghanistan engaged in a firefight along the border and called in airstrikes. Senior Obama administration officials were also weighing the implications on a relationship that took a sharp turn for the worse after a Navy Seal commando raid killed Osama bin Laden near Islamabad in May and that has deteriorated since then.

NATO was also investigating after saying on Saturday it was likely that NATO-led airstrikes had led to the deaths of the Pakistani soldiers. “This was a tragic unintended incident,” the group’s secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said in a statement. “We will determine what happened and draw the right lessons.”

Pakistan’s foreign minister, Hina Rabbani Khar, called Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Sunday to convey the “deep sense of rage felt across Pakistan,” according to a government statement. The border attacks negate “the progress made by the two countries on improving relations and forces Pakistan to revisit the terms of engagement,” Ms. Khar was quoted as saying. Earlier, Pakistani military officials had called the attacks unprovoked acts of aggression by the United States.

Pakistan buried the dead soldiers on Sunday as thousands of protesters gathered outside the American Consulate in Karachi. A Reuters reporter said the angry crowd shouted “Down with America,” and one man climbed on the wall surrounding the heavily fortified compound and attached a Pakistani flag to the barbed wire.

One funeral, led by the army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, was held at the Corps Headquarters in Peshawar, the capital of Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa Province in northwest Pakistan near the site of the attacks. General Kayani also visited soldiers who were injured in the attacks.

On Saturday, the Pakistani government ordered the Central Intelligence Agency to vacate the drone operations it runs from Shamsi Air Base in western Pakistan within 15 days. It also closed the two main NATO supply routes into Afghanistan, including the one at Torkham. NATO forces receive roughly 40 percent of their supplies through that crossing, which runs through the Khyber Pass, and Pakistan gave no estimate for how long the routes might be shut down.

On Sunday, the state-run news media quoted Rehman Malik, the Pakistani interior minister, as saying that the NATO supply lines had “been stopped permanently.” Mr. Malik said NATO containers would not be allowed to cross the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

Hundreds of trucks remained stalled at border crossings, The Associated Press reported, leaving them vulnerable to militant attacks. About 150 trucks were destroyed during attacks about a year ago after Pakistan closed one Afghan border crossings for about 10 days in retaliation for a helicopter strike that killed two Pakistani soldiers.

This time, The A.P. said, Pakistan has closed both its crossings, and nearly 300 trucks carrying coalition supplies were backed up at Torkham and at Chaman in Baluchistan Province in the southwest.

The Pakistani government also lodged a protest with Afghanistan on Sunday about the “use of Afghan territory against Pakistan,” according to government officials. The Afghan government was urged to take steps to ensure such attacks would not be repeated.

The Bonn conference, to which more than 50 countries are sending representatives, had been intended to showcase the international commitment to Afghanistan’s security as well as its sovereignty. If Pakistan, which is widely seen as a seedbed for many Afghan insurgents, refuses to participate, Western diplomats and military officials said, there would be little doubt that the insurgency would continue.

Mr. Mosawi described the conference as important “in terms of the vision the Afghan government will be sharing with the international community, with the region in the 10 years after transition.”

“Pakistan’s participation for us is extremely important. and we hope that they will continue as they have agreed to at the Foreign Ministry level in Bonn,” he said.

Mr. Mosawi said that the Afghan government had been contacted by the Pakistani ambassador in Kabul, Afghanistan, but would not elaborate and did not respond to questions asking whether the Afghan government had been asked to take steps to limit NATO military activity on the Pakistani border.

Alissa J. Rubin reported from Kabul, and Salman Masood from Islamabad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/world/asia/afghanistan-worries-after-attacks-in-pakistan.html

---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------



Look likes he had drink too much.
Yes! realli ...looks like he drank Tequila or 700 in his breakfast......:D
 

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