American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[regular]

Is Afghanistan an enemy state ? Why to give civil transit to it?
Afghan were so happy on the death of Pakistani soldiers , why should Pakistan feed them, as they grow nothing except drugs.

US will try to bully its way out but for a long war even they don't have any money.

Sir! ordinay Afghans don't feel happi on the death of our soldiers against US/NATO its those who are the US/NATO puppets and sellout agents...cuz they gotta show their loyalty to their white masterz.....otherwise their bosses gonna kickout the @$$z......

 

[Mav3rick]

Many people are asking how the NATO could not have known about the posts.One of the answers is that the attack was intentional.According to some analysts Pakistani troops often give covering fire to Taliban militants while they cross into Afghanistan to launch attacks on ISAF troops.This time however they decided to teach the Pakistanis a lesson by firing at their posts.This is one of the theories.

These 'analysts' usually target retarded or below average IQ folks so do not give a lot of thought to them. ISAF/NATO/Afghan/US forces that control the other side of the border have equipment that can monitor any movement and any/all incursions....they are not busy playing hide and seek with each other. The battlefield awareness of NATO/ISAF/US forces in the area is beyond your imagination.

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 PM ----------

Lies?
The entire World knows that US or NATO versions are more credible & trustworthy than Pakistani version.
So it appears that Pakistan was responsible for the death of it's soldiers.

Ofcourse, murdering a million Iraqi's over WMD is really credible....just 1 example should be enough I guess?

 

[Jon Snow]

PAF vs ISAF/NATO: short comings and reality


Now that that COAS has given orders to front line commanders to respond with full forces in case of any attack by isaf/nato. In any such eventuality isaf/nato will be backed by air assets both rotary providing CAS and fixed wing providing top cover. This is always is a nato/isaf SOP for all ground operations. But the fixed wing assets keep their distance until required.
If the forward positions are able to shoot down 1 or a couple of rotary elements using sams than for sure the ac providing top cover will be pressed into CAS role or even worse more ac could be called for CAS and the ac providing top cover remain holding their pattern covering the operational airspace.
Nato/isaf has at its disposal a large variety of ac in afghanistan, some of which are.

fixed wing attack fighter ac:
F-15, F-16, Tornado, Rafael, Euro fighter, harrier

rotary (attack):
ah-64 apachie, ah-64 apachie long bow, lynx


Against this formidable array of weaponry we have just one platform that can stand up against the fixed wing threat of nato/isaf and that is JF-17 thunder. F-7pg and the rose mirages with their air to air capabilities unclear or limited cant be entrusted to do the job day in day out.
Now my question that i put forward to the members is that is the Thunder good enough to stand up against any of these platforms in air to air combat. even more serious question is that is the Thunder certified for air to air combat yet, as last that we heard was that it was going through trial regarding air to air weaponry.
F-7pg have a limited bvr capability but with the arrival of awacs in PAF fleet can the bvr weapons be used to their full potential ?
The bvr capability of rose mirages?
As you can see i have taken the PAF f-16 out of the equation is because the IFF on board PAF f-16 will recognize the isaf/nato ac as friendly and that will be the end of the story for them. The same might be the case for rose mirages.

As the sh!t is about to hit the fan so we all need to be very clear as to where we stand.

You guys only have about 2-3 sqds of a modern 4th gen plane (thunder) -whose capabilities are unclear. You guys will be wise to not engage the ISAF in any sort of combat.

 

[Green Hornet]

Jf-17 vs f-16s,f-15s, tornados, eurofighters????

Are you serious???

 

[indushek]

If this is indeed true, then What I suspect is the following 2 scenarios

1. Pakistan forces were involved in fire attack on NATO 300 or so yards away. NATO inquired about presence of Pakistani forces in area. Pakistani command, to deny their involvement in the attack, refused, never expecting a cross border attack.. NATO went ahead and blasted the source of attack which turned out to be the Paksitani checkpost

2. NATO forces came under attack from the vicinity of the checkpost from some militants. NATO inquired about presence of Pakistani forces in area. Pakistani command, to avoid any appearance of their involvement in the the attack, refused, never expecting a cross border attack.. NATO went ahead and blasted the area and Pakistani checkpost got caught in the fire storm.

In the first case, why would the PA be involved in the attack what purpose does it serve them?? militarily as many learned posters have said here they are night blind (weapons per se) and cannot do anything. Even if they were once the ground troops started attacking they wouldn't have been hanging around as they know the Americans would bring in air support which the PA on border doesn't have!!!

There is another doubt i have, the apaches are one of the best heli's in the world and they would be equipped with proper GPS, hell even my mobile has it and can identify maps and all easily. How the hell did they miss the fact that they are in Pakistani airspace??

In the second scenario if the PA is not directly involved in the attack on NATO troops why would they deny the fact that their men are present in the checkposts?? This clearly doesn't make any sense karan. You better explain this clearly.

 

[F.O.X]

Come on people Seriously . ? This is the news from July 1 around 6 months back when after OBl raid the tensions were high .
So please research a little before you start posting .

 

[IceCold]

A better way will be that PAF flies CAP along the border that serves as a deterrent for NATO pilots from crossing the border again.

Ground troops can also have dedicated air defence in case NATO ignores their calls and decides to replay the attack once more. But before all this, any incursion has to be reported to HQ so that the commanders can contact the NATO and avert the fight but if that fails (like it did last time) request the PAF to come for help and use the ground based defence systems to retaliate and give them a better fight than last time. That way NATO wont have anything to complain.

Just one point sir regarding the above. Clearly NATO has no remorse over the killing of our soldiers and neither does the US of A. And this attack should is a clear example that when they attack, they consider Pakistan as an enemy and thus use full force that leaves little to no time to contact HQ and tell them we are under attack so that the HQ could contact NATO and tell them to avert. Shouldn't this be obvious to all parties by now that this attack was no mistake, it was deliberate so then why are we still thinking over the same lines that is to avert. Clearly we should now be prepared for not only a skirmish but maybe a possible conflict and this time our priories should not only be to just defend and avert the attack but possible shot down any intrusion without warning, capture the bastards and treat them as POW.

 

[Rain]

I am not a relavent person to reply. Every one in Pakistan( except some war hungry) know that Pakistan Army and air force are not built, to fight American or West, even they were in our backyard for over a decade, no serious attempt has been made to fight against them, reason is simple if we fight we will loose sooner of later, but for sure we will loose all world know this(depending on how we define victory).

One thing that comes to my mind that our military planers had made mistakes in Past, in 48, 65, 71, 99 in wars against India.

One need to plan for all scenarios without making assumptions like we did in past, and to me I dont see any serious planning to tackle threat from western borders.
For example looking at the footage of destroyed posts, one can easily understand they were poorly built, & impropery defended. How they fight terrorists in such situation, I feel sorry for brave sons who die every day. Our Top Generals care to less to protect the soldier at battlefields, they have to take war and soldiers lives seriously instead of their coorporate interests.

We can avoid the war with US simply enough by accepting Aghanistan is in their hands and they are master of it. let the Afghan deal with it. we need to focus on education, science, economy.

 

[HANI]

Jf-17 vs f-16s,f-15s, tornados, eurofighters????

Are you serious???:

Here comes another genius

 

[pakistanitarzan]

Come on people Seriously . ? This is the new from July 1 around 6 months back when after OBl raid the tensions were high .
So please research a little before you start posting .

Exactly and I noticed that right away! Please, for god sake, close this useless thread!

 

[Omar1984]

General Kayani's decision was expected:

"Officers were very angry," said one person who attended. "They are also under pressure from the soldiers, mid-level officers and the families of the victims who tell them: 'Why do you stand with people who kill our soldiers?'"

AFP: NATO killings erode Pakistan appetite for peace

 

[Edevelop]

Jf-17 vs f-16s,f-15s, tornados, eurofighters????

Are you serious???

You never know. We might get J-11 and J-10s from China for emergency basis. If you don't know already, some of our pilots were training in Chinese J-11s in Pakistan.

 

[OrionHunter]

Considering the disadvantage the PAF has in terms of numbers and technology compared to NATO, it would be more prudent to employ anti aircraft assets like shoulder fired missiles, AA guns etc. Employing air assets is a bad idea. If PAF does get involved, a local skirmish could escalate to a new level, into a full blown conflict.

And that's what the Americans want, right? There's no need of falling into the trap!

 

[Areesh]

Come on people Seriously . ? This is the news from July 1 around 6 months back when after OBl raid the tensions were high .
So please research a little before you start posting .

But to troll the date of news isn't important for Bharatis. Any day any time any where. A bharati would troll. No matter what happens.

 

[IceCold]

Horrible response from you? I think you all gave a very horrible response post OBL incident ie NONE!! Dont you think that by hitting your troops (posts of whose would have been known to US for sure) the US wants you to exactly retaliate? Well its time Pakistan understood that giving covering fire or firing on troops operating near IB against militants is not exactly a very nice way to show friendly feelings.

Pakistani troops regularly resort to firing when Indian troops are conducting search and destroy missions against militants close to LC in order to facilitate exfiltration/infiltration of the militants ... so am not very surprised that they fired on US troops and got a response in reverse.

However, last time when US forces had hit OBL, Kayani had declared realiation against any NATO troops crossing into their territory ... and what happened? Today also NATO air strike struck into your territory .... ! This is just for public consumption. US would love to see you hit back ......

You are right apart from the covering fire thing. The India Pakistan exchange cab be debatable and one can argue since we have always been rival but the same is not the case with the US and hence your assumption is invalid.
I agree with the part that OBL raid it was promised to give a reply and then this happened but so far nothing substantial has happened but you will also have to agree that no matter how much we want to avert a possible conflict, everybody has a certain limit and a respect. Clearly the army won't allow its image to be completely shattered in front of the public. Already its rock bottom. They will have to show something otherwise they will lose face completely and this is not something that they will allow to happen because army as an institution was seen as a highly decorated, professional institute in the country above everything and the respect it enjoyed because of that.
So far the allied forces have made a mockery out of our sovereignty and this does not sit well with the generals in isb so now 2 things may happen either the generals will keep doing this hulla huppa for public consumption and as a result of this will loose little respect of what is left or they will reply back and which could trigger a conflict. The chances of the latter happening is much more because of the reasons i explained above.