American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[Abu Zolfiqar]

If the relationship between India and Pakistan continue to improve, it will be possible interesting joint projects such as the development of new generation systems for air and space defense. Now in the supply of military equipment, we are limited to complex relationships between our partners.

For example, to prevent unauthorized flights by American aircraft with stealth technology in the airspace of Pakistan, we could offer new radar system with separation of transmitter and receiver. At the beginning of this century, Iran wanted to buy us a system that includes the satellite constellation, ground infrastructure with fiber-optic link between passive radars and mobile missile launchers S300. Such system would make it impossible for a military invasion from the air, but the price is $ 4 billion at that time appeared unacceptable to Iran. Now they would be happy to buy such system, but the political situation in the world has changed and now we are more difficult to sell to Iran what it wants.

you mean to tell me that it was an issue of price that russia backed out of the deal???

oh give me a break

 

[wmdisinfo]

Dear Readers, What happen in Salala is very tragic and we are saddened by the death of 25 brave Pakistani soldiers and officials. Our thoughts and prayers go out to their families. We are looking at it very seriously, and that is the reason a high ranking official has been appointed to investigate this incident. A full investigation is underway, and we all should reserve comment on the details of what happened until all investigations are completed.

In an official briefing yesterday, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said, “The President's reaction is all of our reaction, which is that the events that took those lives -- the event, rather, was a tragedy. The loss of Pakistani life was a tragedy. We mourn the brave Pakistani service members who lost their lives. And our sympathies go out to their families and go out to Pakistan” He further said, “We take this matter very seriously. I believe my colleague over at the Pentagon, George Little, announced earlier today that in addition to ISAF looking into this, at the request of General Allen, CENTCOM will be investigating this matter. And we’re obviously very keen on finding out exactly what happened.” He also said, “As for our relationship with Pakistan, it continues to be an important, cooperative relationship that is also very complicated. And we have been -- senior U.S. officials have been in contact with the Pakistani government, with their counterparts in Pakistan, including Secretaries Panetta and Clinton, Chairman Dempsey, General Allen, Ambassador Munter. And those contacts will continue. It is very much in our national security interest to maintain a cooperative relationship with Pakistan, because we have shared interests in the fight against terrorism. And so we will continue to work on that relationship.”


Maj David Nevers
DET- United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

GO TO HELL.we dont want your prayers or thoughts.Go and look for your own supply lines through your beloved russia.We dont care about u we are 180 million and we are muslims we will show you what is PAKISTAN.I repeat GO TO HELL WITH YOUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS U WILL NEED IT IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
If u dont know what happened then i will tell u what happened you came with ur choppers and bombed our 2 posts and killed our 24 troops and injured our 13 soliders for 2 hours non stop from 00:05 hours to 0205 hours.we believe our Director general military operations and ISPR not some centcom or pentcom go to hell

 

[@nline]

Long Live Pak Army
Long Live Pakistan
Long Live ISI

 

[Jango]

Did you see the circulating pictures of newly born babygirl here? I am sure you did. Did you see the pictures of the officers that died there? I am sure you did. Did you see the pictures of all of the soldiers who died that day? I am 100% sure you did not. Did you see the pictures of the loved ones of all of those who died that day? I am 100% sure you did not.

See, I was pointing out to the importance of their having a chance to fight. In the end, a dead soldier is a dead soldier, whether he/she dies sleeping, praying, standing, fighting, or while attending nature's call. But the general public - I mean the majority - will see it in different ways.

After noticing the particular way in which the soldier dies, the people will form their emotion. The strength of such emotion will decide whether people take the pain to leave their homes and come out in the streets demanding action from the concerned authorities.

If you still do not understand how people behave under emotions, some times against their better judgment, then you should check out that video that was posted here a month back. This man's son is at the front... (now continuing the account in the father's words)...

"I got a call from my friend, saying my son had embraced shahadat.

So I asked my friend, where did he receive the bullets, on the chest or in the back?

My friend asks me, 'why, what does it matter?'

I tell him that if my son received bullets in the back, then he will find no place in the cemetery here.

He can be buried elsewhere, and I won't attend the funeral.

My friend told me, no sir, your son received bullets on his chest.

That was a great moment of satisfaction for me, and I said, yes, now he has a place in the cemetery here."

Tell me NuclearPak, what does it matter where the guy received bullets? It is just emotions, and not rational thinking, that is at work there.

Reality is this - all the dead soldiers, that died while serving the country, irrespective of the causes of death (including suicide related to depression), shall be treated the same. But while in earlier times, glorified actions of dying in the war at the hands of enemy was used to garner support for troops, in today's times such evoking of emotions is used to carry out separate agendas for they would like to call "the greater good".

Now you see the main reason behind ISPR's stress on the soldiers being asleep at the time of the attack?

I hope you understand what I mean here, because I am not very good with communication, and my grammar has taken a nosedive since I joined Def.pk

I fully agree with that.

But, the point that the ISPR also tried to make IMO, is that the the soldiers died sleeping, e.g they were killed unprovoked. And they were not in fighting gear.

But, fully agreed with your point.

 

[Mercenary]

The thing is , that NATO or ISAF might not be much affected by this, but this is the thing which shows that you will not let your land be used for this. This is a statement of intent that we are not your slaves. Now if it affects the ISAF or not, different story.

The people who are calling for an end to supply routes are not thinking, that it is for bringing ISAF down to it's knees, it is for a intent.

Thats fine. But look at the long term damage it does to Pakistan.

Pakistan only has two friends in the world. Saudi Arabia and China. Both of them are friends of convenience.

As India rises economically, it makes sense for both countries to boost their ties with India at the expense of Pakistan.

Then what?

Do you want to be a pariah state? To be declared a State Sponsor of Terrorism?

Iran has the same problem, but Iran has oil to offset any sanctions. We don't.

Is it any wonder why Pakistanis are trying to leave Pakistan in droves to the same countries which killed our 24 soldiers.

---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

GO TO HELL.we dont want your prayers or thoughts.Go and look for your own supply lines through your beloved russia.We dont care about u we are 180 million and we are muslims we will show you what is PAKISTAN.I repeat GO TO HELL WITH YOUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS U WILL NEED IT IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
If u dont know what happened then i will tell u what happened you came with ur choppers and bombed our 2 posts and killed our 24 troops and injured our 13 soliders for 2 hours non stop from 00:05 hours to 0205 hours.we believe our Director general military operations and ISPR not some centcom or pentcom go to hell

This threat is coming from someone living in a NATO country. LOLz

Can you even see the hypocrisy in your post.

 

[LeGenD]

what I am wondering is that how come these jets and helis (which apparently attacked twice) didnt get picked up on Pakistani radar.. They were normal assets and not like the stealth ones used in Abbotabad. Did PAF even scramble to intercept..?? Or were the radars again switched off??

Communications jamming is a possibility. Blind the target and then assault it.

 

[Jango]

Thats fine. But look at the long term damage it does to Pakistan.

Pakistan only has two friends in the world. Saudi Arabia and China. Both of them are friends of convenience.

As India rises economically, it makes sense for both countries to boost their ties with India at the expense of Pakistan.

Then what?

Do you want to be a pariah state? To be declared a State Sponsor of Terrorism?

Iran has the same problem, but Iran has oil to offset any sanctions. We don't.

Is it any wonder why Pakistanis are trying to leave Pakistan in droves to the same countries which killed our 24 soldiers.

---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------



This threat is coming from someone living in a NATO country. LOLz

Can you even see the hypocrisy in your post.

What long term damage, we refuse to be puppets of somebody and be termed as a failed state, and face sanctions, just for refusing to be a slave of somebody?

 

[patna_ke_presley]

Russia Considers Blocking NATO Supply Routes

BY ALAN CULLISON
MOSCOW—Russia said it may not let NATO use its territory to supply troops in Afghanistan if the alliance doesn't seriously consider its objections to a U.S.-led missile shield for Europe, Russia's ambassador to NATO said Monday.

Russia has stepped up its objections to the antimissile system in Europe, threatening last week to deploy its own ballistic missiles on the border of the European Union to counter the move.

Russia Considers Blocking NATO Supply Routes - WSJ.com



Russia Threatens To Cut Off NATO Afghanistan Transit | EurasiaNet.org



Very good news. Pakistan and Russia need to enhance cooperation with each other against NATO.

It seems Russians are in Bargaining mode after the increase worth of Northern Distribution Network and helping American with Back channel bargaining. I found this paragraph in second news link. Good going Russian do help the Americans and also talking of their own interest together.

And EurasiaNet's Deirdre Tynan reported today that Russia has quietly acceded to U.S. and NATO plans to begin using the Northern Distribution Network to take materiel out of Afghanistan, rather than just into the country as has so far been the case. So on a technical level, at least, there has been progress on U.S.-Russian cooperation on Afghan transit.

Also in this news link dated 28th November 2011
Afghanistan: NDN Finding Reverse Gear | EurasiaNet.org

Some few points are there:-

1)The NDN -- a network of road, rail and air routes that traverses Central Asia states -- came into being in early 2009. It was developed as an alternative to a Pakistani supply line that had become increasingly vulnerable to ambushes. Despite higher transit costs, the NDN carries close to 90 percent of all non-military items bound for Afghanistan. In addition, more than 60 percent of Coalition Forces’ fuel needs are transited through Central Asia. Pakistan’s decision to close another supply route means that the NDN’s strategic importance is only going to grow in the coming months.

2)A November 14 sources-sought notice posted on the US government’s Federal Business Opportunities website indicates that the German-run Camp Marmal near Mazar-i-Sharif will be substantially enlarged to facilitate a “Northern Distribution Network hub” at a cost earmarked to be between $10 million and $25 million.

 

[Mercenary]

What long term damage, we refuse to be puppets of somebody and be termed as a failed state, and face sanctions, just for refusing to be a slave of somebody?

Then be ready for punishing sanctions, travel restrictions, being declared a state sponsor of terrorism.

That will cause Pakistan's faltering economy to collapse, causing massive inflation, commodities prices will increase which will cause massive rioting and civil and rule of law to collapse completely.

Turning Pakistan into one of those failed African states.

 

[wmdisinfo]

PAKISTAN BOYCOTTS BONN CONFERENCE:
The decision was taken during the federal cabinet meeting held in Lahore over Mohmand tragedy.

Pakistan on Tuesday decided to boycott the Bonn conference to discuss the future of Afghanistan on December 5 in protest against NATO air strikes which killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, an official said.

"The cabinet has decided not to attend the Bonn meeting," the government official told AFP on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to brief the media.

The meeting of federal cabinet headed by Prime Minister Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani was held in Governor House Punjab. Special prayer was offered for the soldiers martyred in NATO attacks and sympathy was expressed for the families of the soldiers.

The prime minister also announced to call a joint session of parliament to discuss situation after NATO attacks. Federal cabinet maintained that the incidents like Abbottabad and Mohmand Agency would not be tolerated and NATO attack on Pakistani check post was attack on Pakistan’s security and sovereignty.

While briefing the federal cabinet, Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar took the cabinet into confidence over diplomatic contacts after NATO raid. FM said that NATO forces also violated the international laws along with Pakistani borders. The prime minister informed the cabinet that a joint session of parliament would be summoned to take the house into confidence over ‘memogate’ scandal and NATO attacks.
Dunya News: Pakistanakistan decides to boycott Bonn moot in protest ...

 

[President Camacho]

I fully agree with that.

But, the point that the ISPR also tried to make IMO, is that the the soldiers died sleeping, e.g they were killed unprovoked. And they were not in fighting gear.

But, fully agreed with your point.

Yes, you are right. The ISPR's main point with respect to the sleeping part is, they (soldiers at the posts) were fired upon unprovoked (after all how can they provoke the enemy, when they are asleep?).

You are very right in assessing that, and with the same assessment I raised the question about the sleeping part that how can they be asleep when flares were fired 30 minutes before the shooting started. (Relating to the account of injured soldiers)

I questioned that part, and I have been questioning all the questionable parts, only to help people understand that all the accounts we heard yet make it for a very confusing incident at this point of time.

And that the incident is not as simple as it looks, so we should reserve our emotion laden conclusions against any of the parties involved - Pakistan/NATO/US/Taliban.

Well, my appeal goes out to all the Pakistanis, Americans, Afghans, and Indians too in here.

 

[SEAL]

I hope they won't mind selling S-300 advance to Pakistan.

 

[Emmie]

Now something i would like to add.

Now, since the PA stands on it's point that it was not a mistake, and very much intentional attack, then the question comes to mind is that what did ISAF/US/NATO gain by this?

IMO, the US tried to get a measure of the response time of the Pakistani forces , and check how deep the water is. They have claimed on previous occasions that they will pursue terrorists across border if the need be.

In light of the scenario stated above, they could have checked the response of the Pakistani side.

Now, if the Pakistanis also are on the same page that it was intentional, then they must have to get a contingency plan if future incidents like this happen. Then the reaction time would need to be fast, and the response a befitting one.

So, do you people think that there could be a better reply next time , if a next time does come?

Hmmm!... Words of Najm Sethi.. Well, If that is the case then American have miscalculated possible backlash from Pakistan side because the situation that consequently has erupted in Pakistan is more like do or die sort of stuff. If now Pakistan retreats from its current position then it has no genuine and respectful role to play in Afghanistan, and this is not the end, incidents like the one we are discussing will become norm like drones.

So, do you people think that there could be a better reply next time , if a next time does come?

There's no next time, either you halt them now for once and for all or you get ready to face many of them. Pakistan can not afford open confrontation with US thats the reality but it does not mean you can't do anything.. IMO Pakistan will not be enticed to go to extremes because if it goes it means another nightmare for US and region.

In nutshell times now to arrange all circles on one line and act diplomatically..

 

[Jango]

Then be ready for punishing sanctions, travel restrictions, being declared a state sponsor of terrorism.

That will cause Pakistan's faltering economy to collapse, causing massive inflation, commodities prices will increase which will cause massive rioting and civil and rule of law to collapse completely.

Turning Pakistan into one of those failed African states.

Good luck in your doomsday scenario then.!

And all the best in staying in Canada!

For stopping supplies being taken through our state, all this, and we get to be an African state.

You might even take that pakistani flag off and sing the Canadian National Anthem, and never speak Urdu again.

 

[regular]

If Pakistan closes its airspace to NATO, NATO will close its airspace to Pakistani Airlines, PIA and such.

Which will be a devastating economic loss to Pakistan.

Pakistan is not Iran.
Iran has oil revenue to counter such threats and besides Iran doesn't have a major world power as its sworn enemy sitting right across the border like we do with India.
India is the only country that gains from this riff between Pakistan and NATO.

We are going to close our airspace for the Military planes or the fighter planes......not the commercial ones they can pass we don't care. Plus India is not as big threat as US/NATO is , cuz India is direct under our target whereas US/NATO mainland is far far away from our reach....