American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[Mabs]

One thing that people seem to be missing is that this was not just any other post. This was the company headquarters and the NATO had held many meetings here. The coordinates of all the locations along with the reference maps are routinely shared to precisely avoid this kinda situation. The rationale of fire emanating from the said post would have made sense if it was just another post and not the Cmp headquarters. You would expect the NATO forces to flinch a little before they go ahead and flatten a post housing the company headquarters even during the chaos of a battle.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

So why have you collected so many of them in Pindi and Islamabad?

And the biggest of them ... a disgrace is on PDF...Disrespecting our MARTYRS!

I feel like throwing up when i see you!

 

[VCheng]

Pakistanis need to be more nationalistic and confident and have high self-esteem. This slavery submissive attitude should have been gone when we won our independence in August 14, 1947.

Good words, but national confidence is based in good education, health, social justice and economic opportunity. So without developing these things over the last 60 years, this submissive attitude will continue. Sad but true.

 

[pakdefender]

^^^ For all those who were doubting whether there would be any joint investigation with Pakistan as an investigating party.


^^^ For all those who think it was a deliberate NATO sanctioned attack to kill a few Pakistani troops... for what? Sh!ts n giggles??? This attack is a bigger loss to NATO than it is to Pakistan. For a nation or an army, troops can be replaced, but the opportunities and strategic moments and allies cannot. They are not fools to shoot themselves in the foot after coming so long into this war.



For once, I get the feeling that Afghan intelligence too might have played a part in this.

Well NATO/US has pre-concieved prejudices against Pakistan , which mainly stem from the fact that we are the only nuclear armed Muslim nation , they have tired to screw us in this conflict from the start and with this delibrate attack if they have shot themelves in the foot its their own doing .. they belived whatever **** the indians fed them , **** that the afganis fed them ... there is price to pay for murder and they have gone too far this time around.

Their failure in afghanistan is not our resposibility but to take revenge for the loss of our personel due to their agressions is defintly our right and our responsibility , which we will excecise.

 

[VCheng]

And the biggest of them ... a disgrace is on PDF...Disrespecting our MARTYRS!

Who disrespected any martyr?

Your own leaders, when they sit down and make peace with NATO yet again, will disrespect their blood more than anyone else could.

Keep that in mind.

 

[American Pakistani]

Pakistani soldiers pay their last respects to their colleagues killed in the air strike. Illustration: Mohammad Sajjad/AP

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Pakistanis need to be more nationalistic and confident and have high self-esteem. This slavery submissive attitude should have been gone when we won our independence in August 14, 1947.

NEVER were slaves... NEVER will be!

VCheng aka spoon aka Capt america is a .... american wannabe!....who disgusts us PAKISTANIS!

 

[53fd]

And the biggest of them ... a disgrace is on PDF...Disrespecting our MARTYRS!

There's no point in arguing with someone who believes it is the fault of the soldiers that got killed by helicopters when they intruded 1.5 miles into Pakistan territory. It's like saying it is the fault of a rape victim when a rapist intrudes their house & rapes that individual. And the biggest irony is, he claims he regrets all loss of life, but he hasn't shown any regret in his posts here: his posts are inflammatory & disrespectful to the martyred soldiers.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Who disrespected any martyr?

Your own leaders, when they sit down and make peace with NATO yet again, will disrespect their blood more than anyone else could.

Keep that in mind.

And you accuse the troops and side with america defending them like a hound!

Bravo... Slave...

 

[American Pakistani]

Pakistan's reaction to border post air strike leaves Nato tactics in disarray

The deaths of 24 Pakistani soldiers in a Nato air strike wreck hopes of improved co-operation on either side of the border



Julian Borger and Jon Boone in Kabul, Saeed Shah in Karachi and Ed Pilkington in New York
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 27 November 2011 16.06 EST


Nato's prosecution of the war in Afghanistan has been thrown into disarray following the deaths of 24 Pakistani soldiers in an alleged Nato air attack on a border post, wrecking hopes of improved co-operation on either side of the border.

Amid reports of potential reprisal attacks, US and allied commanders now face a diplomatic nightmare after Islamabad accused Nato of launching a deliberate act of aggression, prompting a further deterioration in US-Pakistan relations.

Pakistan's role in the fight against the Taliban is considered crucial, given the extensive contacts that elements of its military maintain with insurgent groups inside Afghanistan.

The incident is a major blow to the US commander of the Nato-led coalition in Afghanistan, General John Allen, who aims to focus his forces' efforts along the eastern border provinces where the insurgency is at its fiercest and is still worsening. The Isaf coalition sees the insurgent bases on the Pakistani border as key to the campaign.

Allen had just returned from a meeting with the Pakistani army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, to discuss border co-operation. In an interview in Kabul, he told the Guardian: "We have expressed our condolences and regrets. We certainly understand the loss of any life is sad and regrettable and the lives of Pakistani soldiers are precious to us as well. An investigation will be convened shortly, we are in the information-gathering phase now."

The attack took place at an outpost on a mountain about 1.5 miles from the border, in the Mohmand part of the tribal area. Details of what happened remain sketchy, with the two sides giving conflicting accounts.

The Pakistani military claimed that the attack, in the early hours of Saturday morning, was a deliberate assault on a well-known position manned by regular troops, calling the incident "unprovoked" and an "irresponsible act".

US officials suggested the Nato force was acting in self-defence, having come under fire from across the border inside Pakistan. Isaf officers said the incident happened when a mostly Afghan force came under fire when carrying out operations in southern Kunar province. They called in "close air support" from Nato, which responded with helicopters and possibly fixed-wing planes as well. The Isaf officers said the fact that the border in the mountainous area was in dispute may have played a role.

An Afghan government official echoed the claims of western diplomats that the Afghan-Nato team had received incoming fire from "the so-called Pakistani post", prompting them to call for close air support. "The most important point here is that they were receiving fire from the direction of the post," he said.

In the past, confusion has been caused by Taliban insurgents firing into Afghanistan from positions close to Pakistani checkpoints, making it appear Nato and Afghan troops were under attack from the Pakistani posts. Pakistani soldiers have shot into the air to warn Nato helicopters they have crossed the border, which has been mistaken by the aircraft crew for incoming fire.

On Sunday, Pakistan raised the possibility that it would boycott next month's international Bonn conference, which is supposed to discuss Afghanistan's future. Tehmina Janjua, spokesman for the ministry of foreign affairs, said the Bonn issue "is being examined and no decision has yet been taken in this regard".

The Bonn conference, scheduled for 5 December, will mark a decade since the first international meeting was held there to decide Afghanistan's future. Although it had once been hoped that the new Bonn meeting might kick off the peace process in Afghanistan, expectations had already been lowered. If a key regional player such as Pakistan stays away, the event will appear even more hollow.

The death toll from the latest incident makes it the most bloody blow to the alliance between the US and Pakistan over the decade of the Afghan war.

Pakistan has closed two border crossings that act as a supply route for Nato troops in Afghanistan, and ordered the US to leave the Shamsi air base in western Pakistan – which has been a staging post for drones – within 15 days.

The relationship between the two countries is already under intense strain following a string of incidents, including the US raid on Abbottabad to kill Osama bin Laden in May; Pakistan's incarceration of a CIA contractor, Raymond Davis; US claims that Pakistan supported a militant attack on the American embassy in Kabul; and numerous US drone strikes that have killed Pakistani civilians in the tribal border regions with Afghanistan.

Allen, speaking immediately after discussing the issue with Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai, would not give details of the most recent incident but talked in general terms about the area in which it occurred: "The border is very difficult here. We have troops operating at over 10,000 feet. That's difficult enough but it's also difficult because there are different lines on the maps when it comes to the border. We don't always agree on the border, so we seek to ensure close co-ordination, and part of the relationship with the Pakistanis is a border co-ordination relationship which has real operational implications."

With the Obama administration in full damage-limitation mode, senior US officials made contact with their Pakistani equivalents over the weekend promising a full investigation. The secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, and the defence secretary, Leon Panetta, issued a joint statement offering "their deepest condolences for the loss of life and support fully Nato's intention to investigate immediately". US diplomats stressed the importance of the US-Pakistani partnership, "which serves the mutual interests of our people", the statement said.

The US ambassador to Islamabad, Cameron Munter, who was summoned to Pakistan's foreign ministry for an official protest, pledged that the US would "work closely with Pakistan to investigate this incident".

Outside the administration, there were calls for the US to take a harder line with Pakistan. Jon Kyl, second-ranking Republican in the US senate, called for "tough diplomacy [with Pakistan] in the sense that they need to understand that our support for them financially is dependent upon their co-operation with us".

Amid the flurry of diplomacy, funerals were held for the dead soldiers in Peshawar on Sunday. Prayers conducted in front of 24 coffins, each wrapped in a Pakistani flag, were televised live. The army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, attended the service at a military base, as did leading officials from the north-west provincial administration.

Thousands gathered outside the American consulate in Karachi to protest against the air attack, shouting "Down with America".

Afghans living in Kunar said they were delighted by the strike against the bases, saying they believed Taliban fighters were being harboured by the Pakistani army.

"These terrorists wear civilian clothes and then when they have done their attacks in Afghanistan they go to the Pakistan checkpoints," said Qari Ehsanullah Ehsan, a tribal leader from the province, "Some of them wear fake beards and then put on Pakistani military clothes when they finish their operations.

"The people of Kunar are happy. We have been telling the Americans for a long time that the Pakistanis are bringing the Taliban to our villages."

What a dumb people they are, celebrating martyrs of other country by not even their own force. But one thing i like they are patriot gulaams.

 

[888jamie888]

Damn, some people need to calm down. VCheng is entitled to his opinion without being insulted. He's speaking some truths. It's just everyone else is blinded by nationalism and bloodlust.

 

[Omar1984]

Nato braces for reprisals after deadly air strike on Pakistan border post

Concerns the ISI intelligence agency could use its suspected influence over insurgent groups to launch reprisal attacks

Nato forces in Afghanistan were braced on Sunday for possible reprisals from Pakistani-backed insurgents following the coalition air strike along the border that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers.

Senior officers from the Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf), were scrambling to resume contacts with their Pakistani counterparts in the hopes of setting up a joint investigation into the incident.

But Pakistani officers severed communications and Islamabad cut Isaf's two supply routes running through Pakistan.

It also gave the US two weeks to vacate the Shamsi airbase in Balochistan, which has been used to launch American drone aircraft.

One Isaf source voiced concern that the Pakistani intelligence agency, the ISI, could go much further and use its suspected influence over insurgent groups in the tribal areas along the Afghan border to launch reprisal attacks on Nato. "This will come back at us, and at a time and a place of their [the ISI's] choosing," the source predicted. In September the chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, Admiral Mike Mullen, said the ISI was using insurgent groups such as the Haqqani network to wage a "proxy war" in Afghanistan.

The incident, and the subsequent breakdown in relations with Pakistan, is a particular blow to the Isaf commander, US general John Allen, who sees the insurgent sanctuaries in Pakistan as one of the keys to the Afghan conflict and who had been in Pakistan the day before the border incident for talks with the Pakistani army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, to discuss border co-operation.

In an interview in Kabul on Sunday, Allen refused to discuss details of the incident, saying it was under investigation. But he said: "We don't know where all of this will end up with Pakistan. We have been good friends with them for a long, long time, and this is a tragedy."

Isaf officers say the strike on Pakistani border positions took place when a joint force of Afghan and Isaf special forces carrying out a counterinsurgency operation in southern Kunar province came under fire and called in "close air support" from Nato aircraft. The air strikes hit two Pakistani border posts in the Mohmand tribal area on Saturday.

Pakistan's military refused to accept that its checkposts had been hit by accident, insisting that Isaf knew the location of the posts, on a mountaintop at Salala, next to the Afghan border.

Major General Athar Abbas, chief spokesman for the Pakistan military, told the Guardian on Sunday that he did not believe Isaf or Afghan forces had received fire from the Pakistani side. "I cannot rule out the possibility that this was a deliberate attack by Isaf," said Abbas. "If Isaf was receiving fire, then they must tell us what their losses were."

Pakistani officials said the posts hit are 300 metres into Pakistani territory, but Isaf officers say the border in that area is disputed.

Abbas said, however, that the firing lasted for over an hour, while Isaf made "no attempt" to contact the Pakistani side using an established border co-ordination system to report that they had come under fire. He said that the map references of the posts were previously passed to Isaf.

"This was a totally unprovoked attack. There are no safe havens or hideouts left there [for militants] in Mohmand," he said.

"This was a visible, well-made post, on top of ridges, made of concrete. Militants don't operate from mountaintops, from concrete structures."


Nato braces for reprisals after deadly air strike on Pakistan border post | World news | The Guardian

 

[notorious_eagle]

And I am surprised that we are talking about the same war in Afghanistan. Because from where I look, I see Pakistan army, with all its machinations in all their manifestations being hell bent on ensuring that the only peace that prevails in Afghanistan is the one which is acceptable to Pakistan army's hegemonic ambitions. Come what may, and it does not really matter for them if people like Rabbani need to be turban bombed, amongst other such developments.

So PA is responsible for the death of Rabbani? Is it PA's fault that Afghan officials were that incompetent that they could not even tell whether this messenger was a true a representative of the Taliban or not. There is no evidence to suggest that the death of Rabbani was by any means directed by the ISI. PA has always made its policy clear regarding Afghanistan that they want a strong stable Afghanistan that is not hostile to Pakistan's interests. The last thing PA wants is to send forces to expel invading Afghans from our territory. Our memory is still fresh when the Army during the early 60's had to be sent to Bajaur to expel invading Afghans. There is nothing of strategic value that Afghanistan adds to Pakistan, so keep this all B.S talk of PA's hegemonic designs to yourself. The only thing that PA wants is not a hostile Afghanistan, after all its perfectly legitimate for us to protect our flank as we do not want to be sandwiched in from two sides. As an Indian you should be the last person to lecture me about intervening militarily in your neighbours internal affairs as India's record is quite poor in this regard.

What can I say....I guess it depends on the cause of the problem that you see and the difference in that with my view. I see the cause of the problem as being Pakistani army command for what it has done in past and what it seeks to do now. I am sure that an average Pakistani will not care at all if there is Idi Amin running Afghanistan as long as it is at peace with Pakistan. Our difference is in our understanding of the nature of this problem and that is why my comments may sound acerbic to you. However, I still hope that you do not find me in agreement with disrespecting the dead. In such case, I will have failed certainly.

I do not find you disrespecting our war dead but i can not help but notice that the propaganda machine has certainly taken its toll on your judgement. Your making PA sound like some evil monster institution that is out to conquer all the world. As i have said it before and i will say it again, PA wants a friendly and stable Afghanistan that is not hostile to Pakistan's interests. There is no evidence to suggest that PA is hindering the peace talks in Afghanistan, its not PA's fault that the entire operation that ISAF conducted and the political solutions they have tried to employ have been an absolute failure. As a face facing mechanism like always, they are just trying to shift the blame towards Pakistan. PA would love nothing more than to move back from our Western borders and end all the hostilities. This war has cost PA immensely in terms of soldiers lost and wounded.

 

[53fd]

Damn, some people need to calm down. VCheng is entitled to his opinion without being insulted.

No one's stopping him from saying what he wants.

 

[lem34]

Damn, some people need to calm down. VCheng is entitled to his opinion without being insulted. He's speaking some truths. It's just everyone else is blinded by nationalism and bloodlust.

yea when 28 brits or american soldiers die we will do the same as you and cheng.