America’s Indian Rebuff

[sancho]

Sancho most of these you mentioned are economic ones which the writer of the stuff has already denied .

as far as in strategic terms its more to do with CHINA as mentioned by you. so how you are going to benefit US viz a viz containing China practically ???

Actually only the first 2, the rest was political and defence related and China is the most important common point between the US and India, besides economic reason. For both they are a rivial and it makes more sense to work together to counter, or at least balance the threat, than to try it alone. That's why the US although beeing an ally of Pakistan for decades and although they still need you in the war on terror, changed their point of view on us, because they need us in regard to China!
We still have the same issues with you and still are very close to Russia, have even quiet some ties with China, so they ignore all that now just to get us closer, because it simply is in their interest.
For India this is a good chance, we already got the official stamp of beeing a nuclear power through the US, although the access to civilian nuke power is more important imo, the permanent UNC seat is also only possible with the US and they officially stated we that we have a chance, which is important by the fact, that they always denied to clear it even for allys like Japan, or Germany.
The arms and techs on offer for India now, are even better then what they offer Pakistan, but for us that offers a higher variety to choose the best for us, especially in terms of quality and most importantly, to put more pressure on Russian and European suppliers as well. In the past we had to take what they offer, at the price they asked because we had not enough options. Today we start developing our own stuff and any country in the world wants to sell us their latest arms and techs, which makes negotiating easier for us too, especially if the US are in the game as well.

Remember the rumors about Rafale beeing out before the trials? I said it from the start that that might have been a trick by GoI/MoD to put more pressure on France and Dassault, to offer what we want and the involvement of the US vendors put even more pressure on them as well. I even say the shortlisting was done for the same reason again, because it's not not on political pressure of the US, where France hardly could compete, but about ToT and offsets for our indigenous industry, as well as co-developments. Technically the Rafale is clearly better for Indian forces anway and compared to EF it's even L1, which never would have been possible with the US fighters remaining in the competition. But the EF offers high comercial benefits and that's what puts pressure on the French now again.

Our government seems to know pretty good that this is the time to get the maximum advantages and to choose the right partners for the future as well, alongside of Russia, while giving the US some pieces of the cake as well.

 

[pmukherjee]

Who wrote this idiotic article? India was never USA's best friend, new or old. Our interests converge in certain areas and they don't in various other areas. It is true that neither the US nor India count on China as a best friend, but does that make us America's best friend? The enemy of our enemy may become our friend, but does that mean that we have buy their fighters? Even if those fighters are not exactly what we want and they come with attached strings as long as from here to Mars? What obligation did we have of buying American fighters? Simply that it would have been a gateway into a nebulous 'strategic relationship' in which we would have been the junior partner to be kicked around and bullied as per the prevailing mood on Capitol Hill? Isn't Pakistan example enough for us to realise exactly how glorious it is to be an ally of America?

For the entire length of the history of independent India, if any country has stood by our side for most of the time, it is Russia. If the Russia candidate was not found suitable, what chance did the Americans have? Especially since America has been hostile to us for most of the aforesaid period of time. Relationship between nations do not develop in months and years, they need decades. How does the author claim that America is our new best friend when she still continues to arm Pakistan, our enemy? Does he think we are bloody blind?

We do not owe anything to anyone. We have the money to buy the best in the world. If A will not sell it or will attach strings and conditions, we will buy it from B. We do not belong to any block. India will do what is best for India.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

@ Jana: This is my first and last post for you. I have read many of your posts, since many many months and i have seen most of times you never have any knowledge of the subject and you destroy the thread with trolling. If your politicians failed to reap the benefits from USA that doesn't mean it is applicable to everyone. We said no to US goodies because we can do it... We are not dependent on them like your country. And never try to portrait Pakistan as a victim.. Whatever Pakistan is today, its all because of its own decisions.. Even if it was famous line of eating grass or 1000 cuts or whatever... Just wait for 10 more years and believe me in no subject Pakistan will ever be able to compare itself with India.

Now if you have something technical to distribute on this thread or strategic knowledge then do share on otherwise i hope you have many more threads to reply in Pakistani section. By the way i have read you claim yourself of being a reporter/journalist, but i have hardly seen any such approach in your posts....rather like a brainwashed citizen...

And last: about bhartis on this forum... don't forget its bhartis who make this forum popular... Even nowadays Pakistan gets publicity only because of Taliban/terrorist or India. But i know any positive about India is too difficult for you to accept..

Now whatever you say in response of my post I am not going to reply you. Have a great time.

 

[Bharath85]

India is not an US ally.Both needs each other for their own benefits and they used the nuclear thing a start for it.To gain more trust.But this time US needs India more than India need US.Like they tried to sell their fighters.But failed.

Similarly Pakistan.US needed pak for their counter terrorism measure and they used you all.Ah yea and they paid you well.And when the time came they killed their target without letting you all know.Thats US.

 

[Spring Onion]

Who wrote this idiotic article? India was never USA's best friend, new or old. Our interests converge in certain areas and they don't in various other areas. It is true that neither the US nor India count on China as a best friend, but does that make us America's best friend? The enemy of our enemy may become our friend, but does that mean that we have buy their fighters? Even if those fighters are not exactly what we want and they come with attached strings as long as from here to Mars? What obligation did we have of buying American fighters? Simply that it would have been a gateway into a nebulous 'strategic relationship' in which we would have been the junior partner to be kicked around and bullied as per the prevailing mood on Capitol Hill? Isn't Pakistan example enough for us to realise exactly how glorious it is to be an ally of America?

For the entire length of the history of independent India, if any country has stood by our side for most of the time, it is Russia. If the Russia candidate was not found suitable, what chance did the Americans have? Especially since America has been hostile to us for most of the aforesaid period of time. Relationship between nations do not develop in months and years, they need decades. How does the author claim that America is our new best friend when she still continues to arm Pakistan, our enemy? Does he think we are bloody blind?

1. Ignoring your usual indian personal attacks, i would like to reply only bold parts. A. Ask your the author who is claiming India as friend or best friend or whatever kind of friend to US. Its not me who is saying so, so your frustration is uncalled for.

2. If your statement for not buying US fighters was due to quality then it would have made some strong case but alas it has included the same old whining rhetoric of cutting ties with Pakistan, IF US wants to sell its weapons to India. Its simply a blackmailing .

We do not owe anything to anyone. We have the money to buy the best in the world. If A will not sell it or will attach strings and conditions, we will buy it from B. We do not belong to any block. India will do what is best for India.

nobody is forcing you to buy from US or anyone else indeed every country holds own interests above . the only amusing thing here one is objecting to dont come up with silly statement like "US fighter jets are not important than lives of our pilots" one laughs that if India was so much worried for lives of pilots then why stuff them in flying coffins like Mig .

oh btw last but not the least whether you reply to my pots or not that is not going to hit my health at all, but a friendly advice one must develop some stomach for tolerating opposite point of view .

 

[WHITESMOKE]

@Prism: i like your display... Who is she??

 

[Spring Onion]

India is not an US ally.Both needs each other for their own benefits and they used the nuclear thing a start for it.To gain more trust.But this time US needs India more than India need US.Like they tried to sell their fighters.But failed.

Thats what i am asking why dont you list logical arguments/reasons why US needs India more than India needs US.

Similarly Pakistan.US needed pak for their counter terrorism measure and they used you all.Ah yea and they paid you well.And when the time came they killed their target without letting you all know.Thats US.

ahh leave us aside this thread is about India and US not about us for we know very well each other so you need not to hide behind Pakistani situation.

 

[somebozo]

Defence deals and strategic releations do not revolve around $11 billon..given the economic size of india...that amounts to peanuts for both..buyer and seller...take out the 30% which should be invested locally and you are literally left with crumbs..on the contanary..Boeing is making several structural parts of its new C130-J in India.

 

[HongWu]

India realized that it was impossible to contain China without an unacceptable cost -- China is already far too powerful. If China is contained through military action, it will take out a huge chunk of its enemies too. USA was trying to make India cannon fodder by inviting it to join some kind of Asian NATO. By refusing USA in MMRCA competition, India said "no thanks" to being cannon fodder.

In the future USA and India ties will freeze again, back to something like 2003. The two countries ultimately don't trust each other.

To an already economically weak USA, losing a potential ally as important as India means it's almost game over. Once China forms a military pact with Pakistan (and eventually Russia and Iran joins), it can dominate Middle East and South Asia. When US loses dominance in Middle East and oil trade switches to RMB, then China becomes the economic superpower of the world.

 

[aakash_2410]

i am asking what you can offer US as an ally in strategic terms?

The same thing you guys offer to China. The only difference that our economy is not verge of getting bankrupt, no terrorism, no drone attacks, no electricity cuts, no Balochistan like movements.

And in fact we can HELP them and won't be burden on them at least. We won't open threads like 'Dear US: Help us fix India'. We know how to take care of our country.

And what newspaper, tv do you work for? Or you work for Zaid Hamid?

 

[Paan Singh]

India realized that it was impossible to contain China without an unacceptable cost -- China is already far too powerful. If China is contained through military action, it will take out a huge chunk of its enemies too. USA was trying to make India cannon fodder by inviting it to join some kind of Asian NATO. By refusing USA in MMRCA competition, India said "no thanks" to being cannon fodder.

mmrca is not whole world..our relations are not too strong..they still sell weapons to pakistan..so even they know this.

 

[HongWu]

mmrca is not whole world..our relations are not too strong..they still sell weapons to pakistan..so even they know this.

Well then India is on its own against China. Because India is much weaker, it will always be at a disadvantage.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

So here is another uninvited guest... Atihi tum kab jaoge....

 

[Paan Singh]

Well then India is on its own against China. Because India is much weaker, it will always be at a disadvantage.

yes,keep cheering us with ur post...

 

[Spring Onion]

The same thing you guys offer to China.

China is our trusted and all weather friend i dont know how much US be the same to you or you will be the same for US if you can offer the same. and honestly so far Pakistan has not offered anything to China.

The only difference that our economy is not verge of getting bankrupt, no terrorism, no drone attacks, no electricity cuts, no Balochistan like movements.

lolzzz no insurgencies in India???? you need to check if NE is there or not? Naxals/Maoists/ Nagas, Bodos and what not. and no power cuts??? are sure ? please check your facts. and surely NO drone attacks no terrorism because you are not in the region that leads to CARs.

And in fact we can HELP them and won't be burden on them at least. We won't open threads like 'Dear US: Help us fix India'. We know how to take care of our country.

Over exaggeration is not good for health