AMCA :: Fifth Generation Fighter Under Development in India

[ganimi kawa]

I guess the people have done the job perfectly by diverting the topic.. from AMCA to KAVERI to SCB to WIND TUNNEL to FCS.... where else it shoud go now?

No bhai! Kaveri, SCB, FCS, advanced wind tunnels and others are all the basic building blocks of AMCA. The fancy roll out ceremony comes much later.


Whenever we discuss whether India has the capability to design and produce something like AMCA, these issues are bound to get discussed threadbare.

Kaveri is integral to AMCA as it's powerplant and SCB is critical if Kaveri has to achieve the desired thrust!

 

[shaktiman2010]

No bhai! Kaveri, SCB, FCS, advanced wind tunnels and others are all the basic building blocks of AMCA. The fancy roll out ceremony comes much later.


Whenever we discuss whether India has the capability to design and produce something like AMCA, these issues are bound to get discussed threadbare.

Kaveri is integral to AMCA as it's powerplant and SCB is critical if Kaveri has to achieve the desired thrust!

The question is, whether India want to be amongst the innovators(top 5) or amongst penny states dependent on top 5.

First path goes through Kaveri and not MRCA. So, delays in MRCA is a good sign.

 

[sancho]

The govt has not given up on developing it. Kaveri is just taking more time then planned and LCA can't wait so they are using an existing engine.
Just because its not used in LCA its not a failure. By your definition even the F-18 is a failure since it lost to YF 16 in the USAF evaluations in the Lightweight Fighter competition in the 80s.

Not really, the government has realised that Kaveri development will lead nowhere, unless we get help, by the fact that years of own developments wasn't enough to meet the requirements and that is the cruicial point here! Also losing against another fighter doesn't make it a failure, as long it did met the requirements, the other alternative was simply better.

No bhai! Kaveri, SCB, FCS, advanced wind tunnels and others are all the basic building blocks of AMCA. The fancy roll out ceremony comes much later.


Whenever we discuss whether India has the capability to design and produce something like AMCA, these issues are bound to get discussed threadbare.

Kaveri is integral to AMCA as it's powerplant and SCB is critical if Kaveri has to achieve the desired thrust!

And that's the problem when we lack behind in any core area of this project!

- stealth (which is not done by making a windtunnel model)
- engine
- radar
- avionics


In most of these fields were still trying to catching up to others in 4. gen technology and that's why we search for foreign assistance, to cover these shortfalls. AMCA (if needed at all) is a a long shot and there is a big learning curve in between, that's why we need to get as much foreign input as we can. Also don't forget, before AMCA we have to develop FGFA, which is way more important for our security. The level that we can improve it from the base Pak Fa will show how far we really are in the aero field.

 

[shaktiman2010]

Not really, the government has realised that Kaveri development will lead nowhere, unless we get help, by the fact that years of own developments wasn't enough to meet the requirements and that is the cruicial point here! Also losing against another fighter doesn't make it a failure, as long it did met the requirements, the other alternative was simply better.

Well, that's not probable because GTRE Kaveri(K-9) has passed its flight test in Russia.

So, I don't think IAF can push for closure of Indian aero-engine R&D project now and go for foreign option. GTRE is back with a bang!

And that's the problem when we lack behind in any core area of this project!

- stealth (which is not done by making a windtunnel model)
- engine
- radar
- avionics

In most of these fields were still trying to catching up to others in 4. gen technology and that's why we search for foreign assistance, to cover these shortfalls.

Snecma JV is about production of K-10 with a pre-fabricated core coming from factory of Snecma in France. There is no technology transfer.

Only hope for India in gaining foothold in International aero-engines market is GTRE's K-9 project in Russia. Snecma JV will give only engine(piece of metal crap) for LCA-Mk2, but no technology.

 

[madooxno9]

Most of these crazy people have even never seen their salary slips from past many years. Ask them their basic pay even today and they will start looking at the skies, not for a clue but to tell the world, Tejas is our actual pay that we have earned.

Yaar ye tho bada galat ho raha hai... bhaiyoo ke sath.... army aur defence industry mea ye saab bilkul thik nahi yaar......

article phadte ... kya lag raha tha... ki ye line bich mea aa gai... bada dhuk hua yaar...but their dream is flying with NOC

 

[shaktiman2010]

^^ That's true.

When IAF top bosses were busy drinking wine with foreign weapon company consultants, in their colonial etiquettes, these men were busy 24x7 in their labs to mature various systems and control laws on LCA.

Compare this with GTRE team who hadn't even had a holiday in years. After first flight of Kaveri on Russian plane, there were tears in their eyes. But sad thing is, there was no IAF senior member who congratulated them or even called.

Its a shame that we have fools running IAF who have no faith in Indian talent. Who will join such foolish force, which run on colonial arrogance? A survery shows, youth is running away from IAF. I am not surprised.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

We must learn from history and develop technology. In the past, we became arrogant and ignorant. Our knowledge and wealth made us ignore the outside world. If we donot want history to be repeated, we must develop a technology driven, lean and mean force. Army is the user and knows the weapon requirements. They must get involved in weapons development rather than sitting in HQs and printing GSRQs. A warrior knows its weapon better than any one and how it can be made more lethal. DRDO should get involved with men on the ground fighting the real war. It should ask them wat they want.

 

[sancho]

Snecma JV is about production of K-10 with a pre-fabricated core coming from factory of Snecma in France. There is no technology transfer.

Only hope for India in gaining foothold in International aero-engines market is GTRE's K-9 project in Russia. Snecma JV will give only engine(piece of metal crap) for LCA-Mk2, but no technology.

That's what you claim, but officials see it differently:

Minister of State for Defence, Dr Pallam Raju, has confirmed to Business Standard, “It is important for India to have indigenous capabilities in engine design. And having invested so many man-hours of work into the design of the Kaveri engine, it would be a national waste to fritter away or dilute those capabilities…. (Snecma) is willing to co-develop an engine with us; they are willing to go beyond just transfer of technology. It is a value-added offer that gives us better technology than what we would get from ToT from Eurojet or GE.”

Kaveri engine comes alive; will power Indian fighters

French firm Snecma is expected to bring technology for the hot engine core and GTRE will work on the cold sections. GTRE will have half of the technology work-share and Snecma will have the other half, according to DRDO sources. GTRE will obtain technical know-how and intellectual property rights for the engine...

...GTRE has spent nearly two decades in the development of the indigenous Kaveri engine and it is still overweight by around 150 kilograms and cannot provide sufficient thrust from its core engine, required to power the LCA...

...By the inclusion of Snecma, the purpose of indigenisation is defeated by the GTRE. However, GTRE feels that in the co-development with Snecma, the research and development of GTRE for decades on the Kaveri engine will also be absorbed. Besides, Snecma will bring in the core called “Eco” for the new engine, and integrate it with systems developed for Kaveri and is not hesitant on sharing technology with India.

DRDO AND FRENCH MAJOR SNECMA TO FINALIZE ENGINE PRICE FOR LCA | India Defence Online

Snecma is offering its services to GTRE for the joint development of the Kaveri engine for India's new Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), dubbed Tejas, with a proposal that fully meets India's requirement in terms of performance as well as technology transfer.

http://www.snecma.com/IMG/files/snecma_news_release_aero_india_2011_modulvoir_file_fr.pdf


The JV is about the co-development of a new engine based on Kaveri and the M88 - ECO demonstrator, which is not fully developed, or pre-fabricated like you claim. And like the sources say, GTRE will have their own workshare on this co-development and Snecma will provide ToT.

No matter if you admit it, or not, Kaveri engine so far is a failure, because it did not met the development goals!
The reason why they still test them in Russia is, that it is still the base for our indigenous engine developments and there are plans to developt it into an engine for naval vessels as well. So it is good that they keep developing it and learn more about engine developments, but it still remains a failure untill it will be used in any form on any vehicle!

 

[faithfulguy]

Has Taiwan made any aero-engine in their whole life or they depend on their daddy(USA) for it?

If not, then keep your mouth shut kid.

In that case, both India and Taiwan cannot build an engine indigenously that fit into an airplane that the country want to produce in the near future. And both India and Taiwan fit into the category of countries that build jet engines for the purpose of showing that it can build a jet engine.

 

[faithfulguy]

The question is, whether India want to be amongst the innovators(top 5) or amongst penny states dependent on top 5.

First path goes through Kaveri and not MRCA. So, delays in MRCA is a good sign.

You will be correct if developing weapons is just an engineering exercise. But India need planes to counter its enemies. The airforce cannot wait for ever for engineers to come up with something. I would suggest that India should focus on research but buy more weapons to fill in the immediate needs

 

[vidyanshu]

Funding started in 93 and serious work started late.. thats why u didnt hear much about it in 80's and all the news related to it started after 95 onwards.. reasons are plenty sanctions, no fund allocation etc.. but if u are here for flaming or trolling , you will never understand it.

AND ALSO 1ST PROTOTYPES ROLL OUT IN 2001

 

[angeldemon_007]

After a long time ADA website is updates now we have official information on AMCA project :

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

Objectives

1. Develop advanced technologies in the areas of Avionics, Stealth, EW, Sensors, Information technology, Virtual reality, etc., to meet the requirements of future generation aircraft programme.

2. Conceptualization and demonstration of advanced Avionics functions and IMA based Avionics Architecture to meet the requirements of the mission and vehicle management of future fight aircraft.

3. Develop advanced EW systems and EO Sensors for future aircraft.

4. Develop capabilities and facilities in the area of Stealth for Air vehicles.

5. Carry out design and resting activities to realize EMC and lightning worthiness of aircraft.

6. Enterprise wide Deployment and administration of IT solutions in the area of - HPC, PLM (Servers and Clients), CAD/CAM/CAE/VR (workstations and tools), Internet/ Email services, ADANET, Storage management, Data center operations management and Information security. Develop Enterprise applications.

7. Develop and provide necessary VR environment to the customer for use in production, assembly, Avionics, Structure, Aerodynamics, Stealth, etc.

Source : ADA website.

---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 AM ----------

Aircraft conceptual design

Multidisciplinary Design Optimization (MDO) based tool for a combat aircraft conceptual design :

1. Configuration Studies

2. Initial Sizing

3. Engine Cycle Optimization

4. Trade-off Studies

5. In-house MDO framework with Genetic algorithm as optimizer

Source : ADA website

---------- Post added at 07:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------

Combat effectiveness Studies

Key Features :

1. Air-Air & Air-Ground Combat models

2. Aircraft Model for Aircraft dynamics

3. Pilot Model for maneuvering logic

4. Sensor & Weapon model

5. Analyze Missions

6. Trade-Off Studies

Source : ADA website

 

[angeldemon_007]

Advanced Avionics and EW

Key Features :

1. Conceptualization of Advanced Avionics Architectures

2. Design & Development of Integrated Modular Architecture Avionics & Remote Interface Units based Vehicle Management System

3. Design & Development of Decision Support Systems employing Artificial Intelligence & Data Fusion

4. Design & Development of Integrated Communication Navigation Identification system based on Software Defined Radio technology

5. Estimation of Radar Cross Section

6.Study of Installed Antenna Patterns

Source : ADA website

---------- Post added at 08:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 AM ----------

Virtual Reality Centre

Key Features :

1. Virtual Reality applications for Conceptual Design, Detail Design, Manufacturing & duct Maintenance.

2. Web Enabled 3D interactive applications.

---------- Post added at 08:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 AM ----------

Radar Reflective Coating Facility

Key Features :

Sputter coating facility for application of Radar reflective coating on aircraft canopy

---------- Post added at 08:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 AM ----------

Information Systems

Key Features :

1. PLM Servers for Design & Manufacturing of LCA variants

2. Web based solution for Aircraft Line Replaceable Unit management

3. 24 X 7 Data Centre availability

 

[sudhir007]

Livefist: Config Studies Of India's 5th Gen AMCA Commence

Computational fluid dynamics-based aerodynamic configuration studies of India's fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft began recently -- this grab is from one of the routines at the National Aerospace Laboratory (NAL) in Bangalore where the studies are being carried out.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Livefist: Config Studies Of India's 5th Gen AMCA Commence

Computational fluid dynamics-based aerodynamic configuration studies of India's fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft began recently -- this grab is from one of the routines at the National Aerospace Laboratory (NAL) in Bangalore where the studies are being carried out.

Darn wish the parameters in which this simulation was carried out is revealed....