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AMCA :: Fifth Generation Fighter Under Development in India

The JV is to learn and Absorb there technology,So that In future the Kabini Cores can be Upgraded to a better standard and the doors would be open for smooth research, which would Multiply the Scope for Upgrading the engines performance

JV does not mean technology transfer. Or is this technology transfer? Also, there are certain things that cannot be taught. One must learn to progress from trial and error. I'm not an expert in this area but I believe an engine core is one of this
 
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I also want to the wind tunnels used for LCA. Last time when I checked, india simple does not have complete wind tunnels for designing such aircraft.

Let me give you some idea, in China, our fighters models are tested in city of Mianyang, there are numerous different wind tunnels there. I am now asking where is yours?


First of all, pray tell me what is a "complete" wind tunnel?:azn:

Apart from what IndianArmy has enumerated, there is one more at IISc, Bangalore (two if you count their facility for rotorcrafts as a different unit).

Also, one more Hypersonic wind tunnel is in it's final stage of construction at Hyderabad (ASL). This is going to be one of the biggest such facility in all the world!




No troll please, I am asking a photo showing its indian testbed aircraft in india.
If you don't understand what is a testbed, search our J-8II ACT aircraft on google. it is the testbed for our J-10's control system.

Let's be crystal clear: if you claim LCA's control system is designed by india, then please show me the testbed aircraft. I would expect that testbed belong to india.

You presume too much, dude! IndianArmy has replied well giving you the basics of indian CLAW efforts. The LCA TD1 was the testbed aircraft where the FCS was finally proved and this was one of the reasons for the slow initial testing phase.

Here are the details of the Indian test facilities for IFCS.


A) Engineer in loop simulator at NAL.

Salient Features
1.Real time control law design simulator with excellent real world visuals.

2.Rapid prototyping tool for Tejas handling qualities optimisation

3.Simulator has been used to develop and integrate the six degrees of freedom DoFs model; all the critical subsystemmodels of Tejas such as primary actuator nonlinear models complex undercarriage model, etc



B) Structural coupling test facility at HAL.

Salient Features
1.Provides necessary instrumentation and control for conducting the structural coupling test on the Tejas aircraft

2.Provides adequate data for notch filter design to avoid control structure interaction and for flight clearance
towards aircraft structure.

3.Computer controlled VXI and GPIB based automatic test equipment.




C) IFCS evaluation facility at ADA.

1.Real-time, ground based test facility equipped with state of the art air data test station air data test system
flight dynamics simulator engineering test station portable avionics test station data acquisition and
analysis and storage systems

2.Developed for Tejas IFCS evaluation with air data computers.

3.Real avionics LRU interfaces with DFCC in open-loop mode.

4.Automated test facility for enhanced throughput with minimal human intervention.


D) Dome based real time simulator at ADE.

Simulator for pilot in loop evaluation of control law for handling quality assessment.



E) Mini Bird test facility at ADE.

1.Real-time, hardware in loop and engineer in loop ground based test facilities for carrying out hardware
software integration.

2.Provides capability to drive the DFCC OFP either through the control of engineer pilot or through the canned
inputs fromthe host computer.

3.Hydraulic rig provides interface between DFCC and actuators Visual display provided in the cockpit.


F) IRON Bird 1 and 2 test facilities at ARDC, HAL.

1.Real-time hardware in loop and engineer/pilot in loop ground based test facility for Tejas IFCS evaluation.

2.The ironmongery is similar to Tejas fighter structure and all FCS actuators are mounted and hydraulically
powered.

3.Tejas single pilot cockpit simulated avionics system under carriage and nose wheel system are also coupled in
the rig.

4.Engineering test station to interface with DFCC and to inject failures and flight dynamics simulator to simulate
the flight.

5.A host of data acquisition analysis and storage computers.

6.Sub system integration system integration performance verification of air data system and control law pilot
in loop normal failure mode and fault free tests and built in tests for IFCS are carried out.




Are you happy now?:cool:
 
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JV does not mean technology transfer. Or is this technology transfer? Also, there are certain things that cannot be taught. One must learn to progress from trial and error. I'm not an expert in this area but I believe an engine core is one of this

JV is more than Technology transfer where both the countries get to know each others Expertise and work better.... And Snecma core is the Important aspect in this JV, Well its not that we cannot understand what a Core is, the K-9 Engines Used Indigenous Kabini Core Engine, The Main part of this JV is to learn the Core Technology...
 
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JV does not mean technology transfer. Or is this technology transfer? Also, there are certain things that cannot be taught. One must learn to progress from trial and error. I'm not an expert in this area but I believe an engine core is one of this

There is nothing equal to being self sufficient, but for the sake of being so, we can't get our programmes delayed. for e.g Kaveri. Both will have to go parallel with an option to go foreign if engines are not ready by the time besides JVs. This is what we learned from LCA.
 
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The govt has not given up on developing it. Kaveri is just taking more time then planned and LCA can't wait so they are using an existing engine.
Just because its not used in LCA its not a failure. By your definition even the F-18 is a failure since it lost to YF 16 in the USAF evaluations in the Lightweight Fighter competition in the 80s.

True.

Some people here are frustrated with delays in MRCA and they are targetting LCA, Arjun, Kaveri or whatever they find to bash Indian scientists. It seems they are finding it too hard to believe that Indian engine design has passed first flight test in Russia, without any of Snecma's help.

The agreement for Snecma JV is yet not even signed and GTRE has proven its own design in flight tests. Wonderful, it couldn't have been better timing. No wonder French are so eager to make JV with India in a technology which they denied us 20 years back.

Great job GTRE!
 
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I think its useless to prove points to people who have done their homework. This guy is just saying what he likes without even having any prior knowledge about what he is saying.

JV does not mean technology transfer. Or is this technology transfer?
JV means joint development which is much better than technology transfer.
 
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the entire LCA is a failed project.
all major parts are built by foreign companies.

Let's just be honest: if india developed the control system on it own, what is the testbed aircraft? there is no such testbed in india because the system was developed by a foreign firm and then tested on a foreign testbed.

now let's look at other parts: which indian company builts processor used in its control computer? I don't aware any indian company is capable of doing this. how about radar? missiles? the seeker of the missile?

I am looking for answers, not excuses. please just name the company/organization which did it. simple and plain.

LCA is failure. Kaveri is failure, Arjun is failure. blah blah ..

Anything more?
 
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JV is more than Technology transfer where both the countries get to know each others Expertise and work better.... And Snecma core is the Important aspect in this JV, Well its not that we cannot understand what a Core is, the K-9 Engines Used Indigenous Kabini Core Engine, The Main part of this JV is to learn the Core Technology...

The Snecma's core will come to India in pre-fabricated condition. India will not get know-how of making engine-core. JV is for production of an engine with Snecma's core and rest from GTRE.

French are not passing over Cryogenic engine Core's blueprints and technology behind it. That's not the purpose of JV. Noone provides you that.

If that was so easy, India would have taken the Core technology from Russia. LOL!

India is going forward with its own Kabini engine-core which is in flight tests now in Russia.
 
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About the Kaveri program, I was one it's biggest critics. This program has suffered from worst of the project management practices.

However, post successful test flights at Grumov, I had an in depth re look at this project and was surprised at how it has turned a corner. A look at the technologies mastered through this program...

1. Basic working jet engine tech ( a huge leap for any country)

2. FADEC. (Full Authority Digital Engine (or Electronics) Control)

3. Single Crystal blades. (Directionally solidified blades)

4. Blisk tech (a single engine component comprising a rotor disc and blades)
This one was a total surprise to me,too. I will try and post a source for this ASAP.

Now, all we need are some good high temp. ceramics ( read snecma core) and we are well on our way to world class engines.
 
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About the Kaveri program, I was one it's biggest critics. This program has suffered from worst of the project management practices.

However, post successful test flights at Grumov, I had an in depth re look at this project and was surprised at how it has turned a corner. A look at the technologies mastered through this program...

1. Basic working jet engine tech ( a huge leap for any country)

2. FADEC. (Full Authority Digital Engine (or Electronics) Control)

3. Single Crystal blades. (Directionally solidified blades)

4. Blisk tech (a single engine component comprising a rotor disc and blades)
This one was a total surprise to me,too. I will try and post a source for this ASAP.

Now, all we need are some good high temp. ceramics ( read snecma core) and we are well on our way to world class engines.

single crystal blades are more refined than directionally solidified blades
 
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