AMCA announcement at Aero India 2015?

[INDIAPOSITIVE]

Hectic activity at the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in Bengaluru suggests that there could be news to share on the indigenous Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) fifth generation multirole stealth fighter programme. With project definition and preliminary design achieving finality, ADA is ready for the next big step: tapping the government for funds to facilitate the crucial engineering phase that will lead to prototyping and technology demonstrations in next 8-10 years.

As has been reported by SP’s earlier, the AMCA is a well-defined programme that looks to deliver tangible results in terms of a credible, potent combat aircraft platform on the lines of the Lockheed-Martin F-35 Lightning-II. The Indian military-industrial complex is in the process of developing evolutionary technologies that will find place both on manned and unmanned platforms, but aimed currently at the AMCA. On the AMCA, Indian scientists are looking to push the envelope further than they’ve ever tried to before.

Every little bit makes a difference when a legacy leap is at play, which is why, from engine performance parameters to control surfaces to control laws to cockpit ergonomics, everything is up for change. At Aero India this year, while there is nothing specifically new that is expected from the platform’s design and capability configuration, there could be fresh details revealed on the business aspect of it, including project costs, the likelihood of a technology partner or consultant from an early stage, and crucially, timelines.


AMCA announcement at Aero India 2015? | idrw.org

 

[Ind4Ever]

Hectic activity at the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in Bengaluru suggests that there could be news to share on the indigenous Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) fifth generation multirole stealth fighter programme. With project definition and preliminary design achieving finality, ADA is ready for the next big step: tapping the government for funds to facilitate the crucial engineering phase that will lead to prototyping and technology demonstrations in next 8-10 years.

As has been reported by SP’s earlier, the AMCA is a well-defined programme that looks to deliver tangible results in terms of a credible, potent combat aircraft platform on the lines of the Lockheed-Martin F-35 Lightning-II. The Indian military-industrial complex is in the process of developing evolutionary technologies that will find place both on manned and unmanned platforms, but aimed currently at the AMCA. On the AMCA, Indian scientists are looking to push the envelope further than they’ve ever tried to before.

Every little bit makes a difference when a legacy leap is at play, which is why, from engine performance parameters to control surfaces to control laws to cockpit ergonomics, everything is up for change. At Aero India this year, while there is nothing specifically new that is expected from the platform’s design and capability configuration, there could be fresh details revealed on the business aspect of it, including project costs, the likelihood of a technology partner or consultant from an early stage, and crucially, timelines.


AMCA announcement at Aero India 2015? | idrw.org

Sky is b the limit . Govt is pushing so hard . No more excuse.

 

[magudi]

Sky is b the limit . Govt is pushing so hard . No more excuse.

Hmm people might not like you praising the govt, they'll argue it's just business as usual and nothing has changed

 

[sancho]

Sky is b the limit...

For our dreams, but the limit for our aviation industry is itself! Btw this is just an ADA / DRDO concept yet, without government or IAF / IN approval so far.

 

[Agent_47]

For our dreams, but the limit for our aviation industry is itself! Btw this is just an ADA / DRDO concept yet, without government or IAF / IN approval so far.

Yeah, and everything starts as a dream and concept.Limits of our aviation industry is bound to vanish in 10-15 years.
This is not an impossible dream,Just highly ambitious.

ADA is responsible for making concepts !.The above report indicate fast approval from MoD and IAF.

 

[sancho]

This is not an impossible dream,Just highly ambitious.

And there you already have implemented DRDO's common excuse for delays and failures, it was "ambitious“! How about not taking such ambitious dream projects and looking at more achievable once?

Our aviation industry only improves, by getting LCA MK1 and even more importantly MK2 done, any NG project is dependent on the technical imputs we gain from that, FGFA or MMRCA. Without this base, we simply have nothing that would make us able to develop a NG fighter at this point, besides that the DRDO and ADA should focus on AURA anyway, which is operationally far more important and that project is "ambiotious“ too!

ADA is responsible for making concepts !.The above report indicate fast approval from MoD and IAF.

=>

The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) will, by August this year...obtain official project sanction from the MoD and funding to the tune of $800 million for the preliminary engineering & development phase...

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft [AMCA] Development | Updates & Discussions. | Page 16

 

[Bagha]

"Touch the sky with glory"

 

[Agent_47]

And there you already have implemented DRDO's common excuse for delays and failures, it was "ambitious“! How about not taking such ambitious dream projects and looking at more achievable once?

Our aviation industry only improves, by getting LCA MK1 and even more importantly MK2 done, any NG project is dependent on the technical imputs we gain from that, FGFA or MMRCA. Without this base, we simply have nothing that would make us able to develop a NG fighter at this point, besides that the DRDO and ADA should focus on AURA anyway, which is operationally far more important and that project is "ambiotious“ too!

Don't you see they are exactly doing it. Mk1 is ready (pls don't bring your FOC argument here), They have everything ready to fly atleast 3 prototype of mk2 by 2018-19.Additionally inputs from MMRCA and FGFA. Isn't that enough to plan for a fifth gen aircraft which scheduled to enter service after 10-12 years ?

Don't you see the same problem with your AURA argument? We have to fly Rastom-2 first to start AURA.

 

[sancho]

Don't you see they are exactly doing it. Mk1 is ready (pls don't bring your FOC argument here), They have everything ready to fly atleast 3 prototype of mk2 by 2018-19.

No they don't and that's the point, no matter if you like it or not, FOC is the crucial base for LCA to get into operational service, till that happens, the project remains to be under development only! Not to mention that you are hugely overstating the MK2 issue here, they hardly are in design concept stage for the MK2, nothing else! They don't have a mock up to integrate the new engines, they don't have a prototype and if we go by the last ADA brochures (but I hope we will get new once with more infos this Aero India), they don't even know about what radar the MK2 gets, when it will get it if it gets IRST..., there are still so many things to work, till we even get a proper clue if the production really can start by 2019 or not and the delays in MK1's FOC obviously delays the work on MK2 further, apart of the N-LCA development that is somewhere in between and where we still waiting for the NP2 roll out too.
With so much unfinished buisiness and delays, it's simply stupid to start another project, that is even so much more difficult! They don't go from a 4th gen single engine design, to a 4.5th gen twin engine design, by adding one more engine and some minor system upgrades, but want to move a whole generation forward, without even having mastered this generation of fighters and that makes this dream unrealistic at this point.

Additionally inputs from MMRCA and FGFA. Isn't that enough to plan for a fifth gen aircraft which scheduled to enter service after 10-12 years ?

It would be enough, if we already would induct and produce MMRCAs, to gain from the transfered know how, just as it would be helpful to gain from FGFA, it we had fixed that deal and if ADA / DRDO actually would try to take benefit from that development. But the fact that FGFA is a HAL project, with ADA completelly outside and DRDO reduced to deliver subsystems, is the reason why they want to develop an own 5th gen fighter, independently.
Which again shows, that we need to wait and learn first, before we start a NG program!

Don't you see the same problem with your AURA argument? We have to fly Rastom-2 first to start AURA.

Of course, that's why I said it's ambitious too, we don't have an engine for AURA, no stealth design know how and our UAV development base is pretty poor so far and all this makes it more than difficult to develop AURA alone as well. The point here however is, that AURA is operationally crucial for IAFs future strike capability and that IAF badly wants drones, while AMCA is operationally totally unimportant, since it gives IAF nothing FGFA wouldn't offer anyway. So why not keep focusing on finishing LCA, with AURA as the long term project fully supported by IAF, instead of just adding one more project on DRDO's list that nobody actually needs in this way?

 

[Koovie]

Sky is b the limit . Govt is pushing so hard . No more excuse.

Not sufficient technological know how, management problems, lack of facilities, lack of funds (do you know how expensive a 5th gen fighter project is?) etc are more likely to set the limits.

 

[Krate M]

As much as I love this announcement, I have to agree with @sancho , this is bad project management.
Get aesa and other techs working on mk2 LCA and test remaining on fgfa
One year wait at least for this would not have hurt. We need better infrastructure. Even now AMCA prototype models had to be tested in USA.
Anyway if the government has decided then what can we do now. It was to be taken up sooner or later, might as well.

The sad part is that the government has not even placed order for mk2 engines. And this kind of premature announcement will be used for silly under development for more than 3 decades kind of reports.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Not sufficient technological know how, management problems, lack of facilities, lack of funds (do you know how expensive a 5th gen fighter project is?) etc are more likely to set the limits.

There is a sayings. If you can't make it then Beg Buy Steal for the sake of the national interests . When we have decided to make AMCA we know what it will cost . And spending few billion on AMCA won't be a problem . Now it's all comes down to technology know how .This issue can be sorted out by if coming up with what ever we have . Less stealth but with maturing the structure with best avionics we have got or we can get and test fly it as soon as possible. There are lot of time to upgrade from semi stealthy to full 5th gen stealth. That's what Chinese and Russians are doing . Americans are different story all together . They already have lots of technology transfer from Nazi Germany . Our private players needed to be involved not only in manufacturing but also in R&D . They can buy beg steal for company's sake . With ease . But our government should assure them on buying if it meets their requirements.

We have long way to go with DRDO and their ADA . Which works 9-5 l I keep government schools.

 

[cirr]

Do more，talk less。

Will our Indian friends ever learn？

Rest assured，the so-called MACA won't fly this side of 2025，even with massive foreign assistances。

 

[AMCA]

Do more，talk less。

Will our Indian friends ever learn？

Rest assured，the so-called MACA won't fly this side of 2025，even with massive foreign assistances。

You are loosing logic by believing you are being Articulate. MACA a chinese Aircraft Probably!!! May not see light like you said, but AMCA certainly would by 2018..

Not sufficient technological know how, management problems, lack of facilities, lack of funds (do you know how expensive a 5th gen fighter project is?) etc are more likely to set the limits.

People in their, driving the program have better knowledge on Indian Industry and Its capabilities that we analysts. Tejas by itself has brought over 1000 Indian Pvt public Industries together. Certainly their capabilities would have grown to support a bigger platform.

 

[Koovie]

There is a sayings. If you can't make it then Beg Buy Steal for the sake of the national interests . When we have decided to make AMCA we know what it will cost . And spending few billion on AMCA won't be a problem . Now it's all comes down to technology know how .This issue can be sorted out by if coming up with what ever we have . Less stealth but with maturing the structure with best avionics we have got or we can get and test fly it as soon as possible. There are lot of time to upgrade from semi stealthy to full 5th gen stealth. That's what Chinese and Russians are doing . Americans are different story all together . They already have lots of technology transfer from Nazi Germany . Our private players needed to be involved not only in manufacturing but also in R&D . They can buy beg steal for company's sake . With ease . But our government should assure them on buying if it meets their requirements.

We have long way to go with DRDO and their ADA . Which works 9-5 l I keep government schools.

-Few billions? Check the costs of other 5th gen projects. Thats why nations like the USA or Russia were searching for partners (India as the partner of the latter one).
-And cost escalations are very common thing. Look at the F35 program. You cant predict how much money you will eventually pay.
-This whole program is a total waste. We need to upgrade our existing (pathetic) infrastructure and production facilities in order to produce more Sukhois and Tejas and to maintain them properly. Furthermore, we have a solid 5th gen project ongoing. We are a developing country with huge poverty, health care and sanitation problems which need to taken care of ASAP.
Wasting money on two 5th gen projects is something that eve developed nations would not do.

We do not swim in money and again, you drastically underestimate the costs of such a projects..

They already have lots of technology transfer from Nazi Germany .

DAFUQ