Ambala to station first squadron of MMRCA fighters

[Gessler]

^
So just because you cant answer my post , so you now resort to trolling , kid ? You never answered my questions ...

Please watch your mouth when you call others kids. Just becoz you have more
forum posts than me (maybe thats becoz you joined PDF earlier) doesn't make me
a kid and you an adult. Im sure I have more relevent knowledge about what I speak
than you.

You were saying that FC-20 hasn't flown yet when it is operational service ... Maybe , you should have corrected your statement instead of acting like a fool ...

Im not being a fool. Its you who is being foolishly stubborn about a point you have already
lost.

I don't say that Su-30MKI is operational just because a Su-30MK is flying in Russia.
Your fart is as good as that. FC-20 (the version intended for PAF) has never flown.
My point relevently stands. Some people here say its based on J-10A and some on
J-10B, see? You haven't made up your minds as yet. The deal hasn't been signed as
yet. And here you are Mr. Adult, claiming that FC-20 is in operational service This
has got to be one of the most rude jokes I have ever come across on pDF.

But I can estimate that if its realy based on J-10A, it shall never be a match for MKI,
let alone Rafale. Plus it will be a waste of money on PAF's part.

Ambala Cantonment have headquarters of 2 Corps and probably some of the following troops placed there ……….

Some elements of 1 armoured division
Probably two armoured brigades
One air defence brigade
One or two artillery brigades and some elements 40 artillery division including its headquarter
A lot of 2 Corps support troops and echelons

Lot of artillery troops, some armoured troops and a whole lot of support troops and echelons – not a lot of fire power as you have stated.

These look like sole manpower estimates. And how did you think IAF will
put all thier info on the net? Data about air bases is strictly guarded.

 

[SamantK]

I do not think I am ... The ones who are dreaming of bringing Pakistan into submission or thinking that we cant deal with a new threat are the ones on high horses ... A rational reply to the comment " it all depends on surprise factor " isn't " What would you do if some hypersonic K-15 is launched ? " ... Next time , bother to check what the poster was replying to ...

nice word 'threat'.. Did you ever ask yourself why spending 25% of your GDP on your defence when you already have nuclear deterrence?

 

[Ping]

^

Actually , the FC-20 variant was agreed to be based on J-10A with specific modification by PAF a long time ago since the B version hasn't achieved maturity ... I cant do nothing if you aren't updated ... To tell the truth , we do not acquire weapons the same way as you do ... We have no wish or habit to announce deals publicly and nake parade equipment ... Do not be surprised if you wake up one day and see a J-10 flying over Kamra ... The Chinese can deliver things well before schedule unlike some ... If you have any doubts , check our previous acquisitions

No Chinese aircraft needs to fly with FC-20 name since each country orders specific modifications based on some aircraft , doesn't change the fact that it is the same aircraft even then ... Do not make further childish statements like you did before that J-10 A or even B hasn't flown yet ... Yes , you have and we have things to counter that ... All saw what happened in '02 standoff ...

He is right. FC-20 is to be based on J-10B, with WS-10 engine. Not J-10A.

Well even JF-17 does not have BVR capability as of now. Just yet it remains a WVR-only
fighter.

Absolutely. In WVR, although it is more maneuverability & more agile than Mig-21 Bisons, it doesn't even have Helmet mounted sight in them. It wont even stand a chance against Mig-21 Bisons in WVR. Totally pathetic!

And after the Mirage-III/Vs are retired, PAF will lack a dedicated ground-attack aircraft
with sufficient range and payload capacity. CAS missions will also be hit. Not that
PAF has ever been successful in supporting ground ops in history. (The A-5s are
already retired).

What is more funny is that they still don't have any concrete plan on how to replace the 241 fighters given in that list. Plus they have another 80 Mirage-5. So totally they have to replace 320 fighters and fighter-bombers within this decade.

Positive points of PAF:
1: Some 70, F-16 Block 52 and F-16 MLU.
2: 500 Amraam order.

Disadvantages and/or Major Googlys of PAF are:
1: Lack of strategic depth.

2: Stand-off capability based on Sub sonic missiles and American civilian GPS signals(not the military one). They don't have access to GLONASS like we do.

3: No plan on how they are going to replace 320 obsolete fighters in their inventory. They keep saying they will replace them with JF-17 but they have no money even for block-2 or a trainer version. They have still not given any order for the engines for the next 50 batch of RD-93.

4: Their Chinese AWACS and the Swedish AWACS are not compatible with each other. American fighters can't datalink with Chinese AWACS and vice versa.(Their Ground base C4 and early warning radars are pretty well known to the IAF. They would be the first to go. Hence the reason why AWACS comes into play.)

5: Their F-16s and AMRAAMS come with heavy restrictions. They may even have bugs in em. The U.S was making some noise that they will not be used against India before. The main reason why PAF is going for FC-20 even though they wont get much capability the F-16s already give them.

6: Their JF-17s still hasn't achieved BVR capability. JF-17s still don't have Helmet Mounted Sight(HMS).

7: Uncertainty regarding FC-20. Money and Cost problems(they are priced at $45 each, too much for bankrupt pak).

8: No Medium and High Altitude SAM cover for their airbases. They only have Manpads and short range sams.

9: No plan on how they are going to replace 320 fighters in their inventory. No time frame, no cost considerations, absolutely NOTHING!

10: PAF took a risk that when they started inducting JF-17. They thought the PLAAF would also start showing interest and they would start sharing the burden of funding the integration cost of weapons, trainer version, upgrades, etc... etc... But PLAAF is too smart and left PAF high and dry. So now PAF has to fund everything. This is starting to show with no trainers and delay in weapon integration.

11: And Finally............ MONEY!!!!! Their entire economy is laughable.


Have I left out anything?

 

[Gessler]

Absolutely. In WVR, although it is more maneuverability & more agile than Mig-21 Bisons, it doesn't even have Helmet mounted sight in them. It wont even stand a chance against Mig-21 Bisons in WVR. Totally pathetic!

Even in WVR, Mig-21 is equipped with the powerful EL/L-8222 jammer which can
easily jam the KLJ-7 radar and incoming missiles of jf-17. and jf-17 can only pull 8G
while MiG-21 pulls 8.5G!

Disadvantages and/or Major Googlys of PAF are:
1: Lack of strategic depth.

2: Stand-off capability based on Sub sonic missiles and American civilian GPS signals(not the military one). They don't have access to GLONASS like we do.

3: No plan on how they are going to replace 320 obsolete fighters in their inventory. They keep saying they will replace them with JF-17 but they have no money even for block-2 or a trainer version. They have still not given any order for the engines for the next 50 batch of RD-93.

4: Their Chinese AWACS and the Swedish AWACS are not compatible with each other. American fighters can't datalink with Chinese AWACS and vice versa.(Their Ground base C4 and early warning radars are pretty well known to the IAF. They would be the first to go. Hence the reason why AWACS comes into play.)

5: Their F-16s and AMRAAMS come with heavy restrictions. They may even have bugs in em. The U.S was making some noise that they will not be used against India before. The main reason why PAF is going for FC-20 even though they wont get much capability the F-16s already give them.

6: Their JF-17s still hasn't achieved BVR capability. JF-17s still don't have Helmet Mounted Sight(HMS).

7: Uncertainty regarding FC-20. Money and Cost problems(they are priced at $45 each, too much for bankrupt pak).

8: No Medium and High Altitude SAM cover for their airbases. They only have Manpads and short range sams.

9: No plan on how they are going to replace 320 fighters in their inventory. No time frame, no cost considerations, absolutely NOTHING!

10: PAF took a risk that when they started inducting JF-17. They thought the PLAAF would also start showing interest and they would start sharing the burden of funding the integration cost of weapons, trainer version, upgrades, etc... etc... But PLAAF is too smart and left PAF high and dry. So now PAF has to fund everything. This is starting to show with no trainers and delay in weapon integration.

11: And Finally............ MONEY!!!!! Their entire economy is laughable.


Have I left out anything?

Thats one fearsome compilation.

 

[Ticker]

These look like sole manpower estimates. And how did you think IAF will
put all thier info on the net? Data about air bases is strictly guarded.

These are Indian Army formations located at Ambala cantonment.

At IAF base Ambala following are known to be stationed .....

One squadron of Mig-21 (don't have the type, probably Mig 21-93

Two squadrons of Jaguars

Offcourse the war time deployment would be slightly different.

 

[Gessler]

These are Indian Army formations located at Ambala cantonment.

At IAF base Ambala following are known to be stationed .....

One squadron of Mig-21 (don't have the type, probably Mig 21-93

Two squadrons of Jaguars

Offcourse the war time deployment would be slightly different.

And IAF will also deploy its own SAMs and AAs there.

 

[Gessler]

Imagine Su-30MKI or Rafale flying with a pack of AURAs.

 

[Abingdonboy]

PAF's strategy is to add force multipliers so they can provide the back up required for her assets to challenge IAF fighters. The aim is to invest in early warning, electronic warfare, avionics, data linking and create a true network centric system. Your argument would hold weight if PAF was sending an F7PG blind against a SU30MKI, but backed up with support of the force multipliers the PG's chance of survival shoots up.

The quantitative advantage you are talking about. IAF will station atleast 3 squadrons to protect her Northern flank. For her Western Command, split up the fighters for AS, AD and CAS. There are not much fighters left for carrying out effective AS roles.

The entire premise behind PAF's strategy is to survive the war just for long enough. PAF realized long ago that they cannot win a long scale war against India, this is why the strategy has changed. Looking at the balance of numbers right now, PAF's odds look quite good for surviving a short war. You would really need to provide me with some strong arguments for me to think otherwise.

And the IAF isn't investing in such force multipliers?? By 2020 the IAF will have close to 20 advanced AWACS (a mixture of PHALCON and DRDO),12-18 AARs and 10-15 SIGNIT/EW a/c (excluding RAW's ARC fleet) not to mention dedicated satillites and a complety new C41 network system. Here too, he systems will be both qulitvely and quantively superior- that is without question. An MKI backed up by a AWACS would rule out any advantage of a PG backed by a AWACS. Hence we are talking about 80 a/c from the PAF that could put up any real fight for the IAF so ~4 MKI SQDs or ~10% of the fighter force. Even if the IAF wanted to go for overkill with a 2:1 advantage we are onlyooking at 1/4 of the IAF fleet deployed to counter the PAF. After 2020 the proportion of the fleet the IAF has to deploy will start to significantly decrease as the IAF figter fleet reaches ~50 SQDs by 2025-30.

 

[帅的一匹]

Please watch your mouth when you call others kids. Just becoz you have more
forum posts than me (maybe thats becoz you joined PDF earlier) doesn't make me
a kid and you an adult. Im sure I have more relevent knowledge about what I speak
than you.



Im not being a fool. Its you who is being foolishly stubborn about a point you have already
lost.

I don't say that Su-30MKI is operational just because a Su-30MK is flying in Russia.
Your fart is as good as that. FC-20 (the version intended for PAF) has never flown.
My point relevently stands. Some people here say its based on J-10A and some on
J-10B, see? You haven't made up your minds as yet. The deal hasn't been signed as
yet. And here you are Mr. Adult, claiming that FC-20 is in operational service This
has got to be one of the most rude jokes I have ever come across on pDF.

But I can estimate that if its realy based on J-10A, it shall never be a match for MKI,
let alone Rafale. Plus it will be a waste of money on PAF's part.



These look like sole manpower estimates. And how did you think IAF will
put all thier info on the net? Data about air bases is strictly guarded.

The best way of your deference is delusionize really things never happens.....j10b will say hello to you no later than 2014 in Pakistan. You need your brain checked before you got banned.

Please watch your mouth when you call others kids. Just becoz you have more
forum posts than me (maybe thats becoz you joined PDF earlier) doesn't make me
a kid and you an adult. Im sure I have more relevent knowledge about what I speak
than you.



Im not being a fool. Its you who is being foolishly stubborn about a point you have already
lost.

I don't say that Su-30MKI is operational just because a Su-30MK is flying in Russia.
Your fart is as good as that. FC-20 (the version intended for PAF) has never flown.
My point relevently stands. Some people here say its based on J-10A and some on
J-10B, see? You haven't made up your minds as yet. The deal hasn't been signed as
yet. And here you are Mr. Adult, claiming that FC-20 is in operational service This
has got to be one of the most rude jokes I have ever come across on pDF.

But I can estimate that if its realy based on J-10A, it shall never be a match for MKI,
let alone Rafale. Plus it will be a waste of money on PAF's part.



These look like sole manpower estimates. And how did you think IAF will
put all thier info on the net? Data about air bases is strictly guarded.

The best way of deterance by delusionizing undesired stuff never happens.....j10b will say hello to you no later than 2014 in Pakistan. You need your brain checked before you got banned.

 

[Wickerman]

The best way of your deference dance by delusionizing undesired stuff never happens.....j10b will say hello to you no later than 2014 in Pakistan. You need your brain checked before you got banned.

J10/FC 20 might be available by 2014-2015. But not sure how much of a match it would be for the Su 30MKI. I mean isnt the J10 in the class of the F16s? The Su 30 MKI has almost twice its range and is a heavy fighter. So not sure how much of an impact it can actually make.

 

[Abhishek_]

The best way of your deference is delusionize really things never happens.....j10b will say hello to you no later than 2014 in Pakistan. You need your brain checked before you got banned.

 

[Ticker]

And the IAF isn't investing in such force multipliers?? By 2020 the IAF will have close to 20 advanced AWACS (a mixture of PHALCON and DRDO),12-18 AARs and 10-15 SIGNIT/EW a/c (excluding RAW's ARC fleet) not to mention dedicated satillites and a complety new C41 network system. Here too, he systems will be both qulitvely and quantively superior- that is without question. An MKI backed up by a AWACS would rule out any advantage of a PG backed by a AWACS. Hence we are talking about 80 a/c from the PAF that could put up any real fight for the IAF so ~4 MKI SQDs or ~10% of the fighter force. Even if the IAF wanted to go for overkill with a 2:1 advantage we are onlyooking at 1/4 of the IAF fleet deployed to counter the PAF. After 2020 the proportion of the fleet the IAF has to deploy will start to significantly decrease as the IAF figter fleet reaches ~50 SQDs by 2025-30.

As if by 2020 or 2025, PAF would remain in freeze.

Kabhi kabhi aqal ki baatein bhi kar liya karo yaar.

 

[SamantK]

As if by 2020 or 2025, PAF would remain in freeze.

Kabhi kabhi aqal ki baatein bhi kar liya karo yaar.

Only 23% of your budget is now left for everything else, what do you think your projection for future is?

 

[Abingdonboy]

As if by 2020 or 2025, PAF would remain in freeze.

Kabhi kabhi aqal ki baatein bhi kar liya karo yaar.

But what can PAF really do? How much will it spend by 2020? $5BN? $6BN? Compared to IAF's $70-80BN how will it even the odds?

 

[Ticker]

But what can PAF really do? How much will it spend by 2020? $5BN? $6BN? Compared to IAF's $70-80BN how will it even the odds?

So much was explained above and if you still do not understand - mein kya kar sakta hun.

Only 23% of your budget is now left for everything else, what do you think your projection for future is?

Cheen hai na.