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Aman Shanti

Don't believe better research first or people will know not only this but rest of 13k+ post u do without any thinking or knowledge.Giving you indian reference so u cant say we temper with it https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...at-Jinnah-be-made-PM/articleshow/50289468.cms

Thanks for the correction.

But it also underlines my point that Jinnah too wanted to become the PM of Undivided India.

@Gillani88

BTW, @Sekhon Rafiqui , when you want to call someone to see your post please tag them using "@", otherwise they won't see your mentioning their name.
 
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Aman - Om Shanti



I hope I will be forgiven if I come across romantic / idealistic or if I come across as a verbose dreamer in this post. Whatever you construe, I am about to write down something that I have felt very strongly about for a long time. It is an honour for me to be able to post it on this particular form. If you feel that I am a John Lennon fan, you are damn right! imagine that.


Yes there have been conflicts amongst the two nations. The successive governments and leaders have pointed fingers at each other and attempted to brain wash / poison the populace against our neighbours. If the political agendas were not understood by the aam aadmi, religion was easier to use as a stepping stone for fomenting hatred. ‘Pakistan was Islam was Muslim and they ate beef and Indians were all Hindus who hated Muslims’ was a more convenient mantra to preach on either side of the border. Suddenly, the cow stands between Hinduism and Islam. Had the cows not existed, there would be no conflict.


After more than seven decades, thankfully, the powers that be have not succeeded completely, or have they? Dark days are upon us again, I first got a whiff of it about four years ago when on an international forum, I happened to declare my love for ‘Qaumi Taranah’ and was immediately vilified and labelled an ‘Anti National Chu_ _ _ _’. My social media presence was severely trolled till I tightened my security measures extensively. I mean, come on, it is a beautiful song with a haunting melody. What is wrong with appreciating good music? I fail to understand it. I was taught that the Pakistanis were religious bigots?!


1. That apart, do I absolve Pakistan of all blame in the past and ensuing conflicts? No.

2. Am I a patriotic Indian? You bet your *** I am.

3. Do I blame the Pak Defence Forces for the wars? No. They were just following orders.

3. Do I blame our politicians (both sides) for what happened in history? Of course I do.

4. Is Kashmir a real issue? Yes and No it depends if you use Empathy as a yardstick.

5. Who do I blame the most for this bad blood? Lord Mountbatten.


I have family members in the Indian Defence Forces who have served at the border and they have recanted to me several wonderful tales of bonhomie and camaraderie that they had experienced with the soldiers from across the border.


One story goes as such and it happened in the 1990’s. A unit from the Indian Army had replaced another at the border. Most of the members of the outgoing unit hailed form a particular ethnic group from North East India who were rumoured to be omnivores. A day later, a contingent from the Pakistani unit, led by a young Lieutenant carrying a white flag, approached the border and requested to meet the CO of the new Indian unit. Pleasantries having been exchanged, the Pakistanis unveiled a large cache of dry fruits and other savouries as a gift for the Indians. When the Pakistani Lieutenant was asked for the reason behind this warm welcome, his answer was rather sobering.


“Sir we wanted to be sure that ‘they’ had left and that you were a different lot. Woh log sab kuch kha gaya. Chidiya, jungli billi, suwar, kutta - kuch bhi nahin chora, Sirjee chuhaa bhi kha kar khatam kar diya! Humey to dar tha ki woh hummey bhi na kha jaaye. Welcome to the border Sir!”


Doubtless to say, peace prevailed in trust thereafter!


I don’t know if this really happened but I sure would like to believe it.


You just can’t draw a line across the homes of a joint family and separate two families on religious lines and instil hatred. That is just not done! The tragedy is that we have accepted it and that has resulted in misery for all and countless deaths.


I see beautiful and scenic videos of Pakistan on YouTube. It is a beautiful country and the street food looks delicious! One about the potato chips of Peshawar and another about Roomali roti from Karachi are mouth watering. Being a vegetarian by choice, for dinner I will settle for some Roomali Roti, Dry Tandoori Paneer Tikka and Pakhtooni daal followed by Phirni at Karachi, Rawalpindi, Islamabad or Lahore. The wife, however, would dig into the beef and the other non vegetarian delicacies for sure. We yearn to visit you and enjoy ourselves in your company. After all, once upon a time not so long ago, ‘you’ were ‘we’.

I regret that I do not speak for a lot of Indians and I pray that they are not the majority.

May peace and good sense prevail upon us. Insha Allah, Om Shanti.
Thank you for posting this but I am afraid the time and place both are wrong. See Sekhon, the problem is not the ancient strife between two different religio-cultural themes, Congress vs Muslim League or the horrors of partitions. The problem is our propensity to carry historical baggage. It is seventy years since India and Pakistan has departed from each other as nations, but the hatred and distrust for each other is something we are not yet ready to shrug off and start a new era. We are the only two Nuclear power countries n this world who are dirt poor, with pathetic health care and education system, where gender discrimination is still dictated by medieval sensibilities.

I quite agree with you on your point that we have, since ancient days are used to live with peaceful coexistence. But do note that this peaceful coexistence never threatened our tribal sovereignty. Political Subcontinent (without a defining boundary) were made of small autonomous village units, units whose economic and administrative liberty were hardly challenged by the State till the British came. This advantage of peace was relinquished( Yes, I do not blame Mountbatten or the British) by us; The moment two political Nations merge out of one consciously structured political entity, frictions are bound to appear. This animosity is not unnatural. It is real.

Problem is, unlike modern Europe we are stubborn in not learning. We do not realize that once Nations that were thirsty for blood for each other, held utter contempt in terms of language, ethnicity etc are allies today. Common concerns like hunger, health, education, material prosperity became priorities for them. They realized that there is no other alternatives for peace. Despite having such glorious examples of the benefits of peace, we decided to go tribal again. Thought patterns that have dominated the statesmen of Medieval Europe is prevalent in our politicians today. So, chances of peace is distance away. There is no hope as of now.
 
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@sorpionx - you do have some very valid points. I could debate a few though, however, I will wait for a while. Let me acquire a better understanding of the raison d'etre of this forum. Thanks!
 
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Thanks for the correction.

But it also underlines my point that Jinnah too wanted to become the PM of Undivided India.

@Gillani88

BTW, @Sekhon Rafiqui , when you want to call someone to see your post please tag them using "@", otherwise they won't see your mentioning their name.
Sorry, another Hindu source. :-)
 
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@Sekhon Rafiqui , I think @Krishnan and @India Pakistan would be interested in your line of thinking. Myself also.

P.S : Krishnan is banned for some reason. I hope he gets unbanned.



I believe that before Jinnah got sidelined by Gandhi and Nehru, he wanted to become the Prime Minister of Post-British India.
I do not think Jinnah ever expressed any such desire.
 
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The ToI report? Does it say Jinnah wanted it? All it says, "Had Mountbatten taken Gandhi's advice seriously..." This is an opinion. Not fact.

Well, Gandhi was speaking with Mountbatten on Jinnah's behalf. It wouldn't have been done without Jinnah's consent and desire.

But also, it is more my belief than any fact I know of that Jinnah wanted to become the PM of Undivided India, and I am sure I can find facts which can justify my belief.
 
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Well, Gandhi was speaking with Mountbatten on Jinnah's behalf. It wouldn't have been done without Jinnah's consent and desire.

But also, it is more my belief than any fact I know of that Jinnah wanted to become the PM of Undivided India, and I am sure I can find facts which can justify my belief.
Any source for this statement?
"....VP Menon, constitutional adviser to the Viceroy, recorded a detailed note that is unfortunately undated but readily available in the Mountbatten Papers. Menon wrote to Mountbatten that Gandhi-ji "knows full well that similar offers have been made to him (Jinnah) in the past as well and that Jinnah never took them seriously". He adds, "No one - least of all the Muslim League - took this offer seriously;"

https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/it-was...ces-of-being-pm-by-mani-shankar-aiyar-1896638
 
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Same people?

A Indian Punjabi shares ties with a Pakistani Punjabi. A Gujarati and a Rajasthani shares ties with a sindhi across the border.

A Pakistani Muhajir Muslim shares ties Bhaiyya Hindus from UP and Bihar.

What about the rest?

A Tamil is distinct from a Punjabi.

I as a Marathi share no cultural ties with Bhaiyyas and Punjabis.


Your concept of India as an organic entity is flawed. There is no India. There was no India. There never will be an India you envisage.

The Mauryas and Mughals gave autonomy to far flung territories. There was no centralized administration as we see in both countries. Or an attempt made to impose a language(Hindi/Urdu) or a culture(North Indian/Punjabi).

India and Pakistan are both artificial entities who have avoided dis integration by employing risky tactics such as communalism, nationalism and the classic divide and rule.

As every unnatural empire these nations will have an violent end. Dis integration of Mauryan, Moghul and British India was accompanied by gruesome violence.

The only rational solution would be, all ethnicities in this region get their separate country. But the elites on both side won't ket it happen. When bloods of river start flowing they will flee along with their ill gotten wealth and the commoners to fend for themselves.

So go easy on the rhetoric, lionheart!

@Indus Pakistan @jamahir @Joe Shearer @fitpOsitive @Nilgiri @Fawadqasim1 @Nityam @Soumitra @Republic
 
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Same people?

A Indian Punjabi shares ties with a Pakistani Punjabi. A Gujarati and a Rajasthani shares ties with a sindhi across the border.

A Pakistani Muhajir Muslim shares ties Bhaiyya Hindus from UP and Bihar.

What about the rest?

A Tamil is distinct from a Punjabi.

I as a Marathi share no cultural ties with Bhaiyyas and Punjabis.


Your concept of India as an organic entity is flawed. There is no India. There was no India. There never will be an India you envisage.

The Mauryas and Mughals gave autonomy to far flung territories. There was no centralized administration as we see in both countries. Or an attempt made to impose a language(Hindi/Urdu) or a culture(North Indian/Punjabi).

India and Pakistan are both artificial entities who have avoided dis integration by employing risky tactics such as communalism, nationalism and the classic divide and rule.

As every unnatural empire these nations will have an violent end. Dis integration of Mauryan, Moghul and British India was accompanied by gruesome violence.

The only rational solution would be, all ethnicities in this region get their separate country. But the elites on both side won't ket it happen. When bloods of river start flowing they will flee along with their ill gotten wealth and the commoners to fend for themselves.

So go easy on the rhetoric, lionheart!

@Indus Pakistan @jamahir @Joe Shearer @fitpOsitive @Nilgiri @Fawadqasim1 @Nityam @Soumitra @Republic
See Pule, in Pakistan although this ethnic problem exist, but it is slowly dying as ethnicities are dying, even punjabi. In next 50 years, Pakistan will be homogeneous Urdu speaking country. Simple.
 
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Same people?

A Indian Punjabi shares ties with a Pakistani Punjabi. A Gujarati and a Rajasthani shares ties with a sindhi across the border.

A Pakistani Muhajir Muslim shares ties Bhaiyya Hindus from UP and Bihar.

What about the rest?

A Tamil is distinct from a Punjabi.

I as a Marathi share no cultural ties with Bhaiyyas and Punjabis.


Your concept of India as an organic entity is flawed. There is no India. There was no India. There never will be an India you envisage.


The Mauryas and Mughals gave autonomy to far flung territories. There was no centralized administration as we see in both countries. Or an attempt made to impose a language(Hindi/Urdu) or a culture(North Indian/Punjabi).

India and Pakistan are both artificial entities who have avoided dis integration by employing risky tactics such as communalism, nationalism and the classic divide and rule.

As every unnatural empire these nations will have an violent end. Dis integration of Mauryan, Moghul and British India was accompanied by gruesome violence.

The only rational solution would be, all ethnicities in this region get their separate country. But the elites on both side won't ket it happen. When bloods of river start flowing they will flee along with their ill gotten wealth and the commoners to fend for themselves.

So go easy on the rhetoric, lionheart!

@Indus Pakistan @jamahir @Joe Shearer @fitpOsitive @Nilgiri @Fawadqasim1 @Nityam @Soumitra @Republic


Who was this post addressed to? Who did you bestow the (sarcastic) epithet of Lionheart upon?
 
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