Alternatives to U-214
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araz
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You may have been given the right to assemble more Agostas but you are by no means capable of building and more importantly designing your own subs. If you look at the PN input in the project, the french have sent modular units across and PN has assembled them together.As to why you dont want more, the reason is simple.90B is a generation behind what will be in the waters of SE asia in the next decade. So you dont want to lose ground by assmebling more units of the last generation, when you clearly want to go for the next generation.Now is the time and we should be concentrating on going forwards not backwards. More importantly you dont have the facilities to construct the specialized steels required to build the sub even if you wanted to. You do not have the money to establish a specialized steel palnt when it would require billions and take another 5yrs to build and then you start experimenting to get the right ingredients to build the Steel. So it is a cost prohibitive policy.
regards
Araz
Mercenary
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How about the German Dolphin Submarines?
They are currently being used by the Israelis and are extremely lethal. Israel has already retrofitted the tubes with nuclear missiles giving it a 2nd strike capability.
Dolphin class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They are currently being used by the Israelis and are extremely lethal. Israel has already retrofitted the tubes with nuclear missiles giving it a 2nd strike capability.
Dolphin class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Myth_buster_1
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their is simply no alternative to superior AIP sub Type-214.
marcos98
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gotland class submarine will surely give em a run for their money???
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SBD-3
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Does that imply PN should abandon Sub procurment if U-214 isn't realized?
Myth_buster_1
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run for their money? do you know how much your infieior scorpene costs?
common scenes?
Penguin
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The Dolphin class are precursor to both the 212A and 214 subs
SBD-3
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just joking
oh, long time no see.
BTW,are you returning or just taking a break for your long absence?
Super Falcon
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Kockums were awarded the contract in March 1990 to build three Gotland Class submarines, HMS Gotland, Uppland and Halland. The first of class, HMS Gotland, was commissioned in 1996. The second and third, HMS Uppland and Halland, were commissioned in 1997. Kockums is owned by HDW of Germany.
In November 2004, the Swedish Government approved a proposal for the US Navy to lease HMS Gotland and crew for one year to participate in naval exercises. Gotland arrived at the Naval Air Station North Island, San Diego in June 2005. The submarine will operate in the opposing force (OPFOR) role. In June 2006, the lease was extended for a further year. In July 2007, HMS Gotland left San Diego to return to Sweden.
COMBAT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
The ship's combat management system is the 9SCS Mark 3 from Saabtech Vectronics (formerly CelsiusTech). The system carries the Swedish Royal Navy designation SESUB 940A. The system uses an extended version of the ADA software from Saabtech Vectronics' 9LV Mk 3 surface ship combat management system.
The fire control system has the capacity to control several torpedoes in the water simultaneously. The 9SCS Mark 3 Combat Management System has three Type IID multifunction consoles from Terma. The terminals are for command and control, communications, and weapon control. The consoles are connected via a dual-Ethernet, copper-wire, Local-Area Network (LAN).
In January 2006, the Swedish government placed an order with Saab Systems for the upgrade of the combat system. The new system is called SESUB 960. Navigation, sensor management and weapon handling systems will also be upgraded.
TORPEDOES
The submarines are fitted with four 533mm torpedo tubes and two 400mm torpedo tubes. The Bofors Underwater Systems Type 613 torpedoes are fired from the 533mm tubes. The Type 613 is a heavy-weight anti-surface ship torpedo. It has wire guidance and passive homing, delivering a warhead of 240kg. The launch of the torpedo is by swim-out discharge: the speed is 40kt and the range, 20km. The 613 torpedo equips all Sweden's submarines, the A19 Gotland, A17 Vastergotland, A14 Nacken and A12 Sjoorrmen.
"The submarine is equipped with a CSU 90-2 integrated sonar sensor suite."Saab Bofors Underwater Systems has developed a new heavyweight torpedo for the Swedish Navy, the Torpedo 2000 (Swedish Navy designation Torpedo 62).
It is a high-speed anti-submarine / anti-surface torpedo with a range of more than 40km and speed of over 40kt.
The Gotland Class submarine will be equipped with the Torpedo 2000, which is fired from the 21in tubes. Gotland has the capacity to carry sixteen Torpedo 2000s. The combat system on the Gotland class submarines will be adapted to accommodate a new generation of torpedoes including the new Torpedo 2000, which will become the submarine's principle weapon.
The two 400mm tubes fire the Saab Bofors Underwater Systems Type 43 lightweight anti-submarine torpedo. The planned modifications to the submarine's combat system will accommodate Saab Bofors new lightweight Type 43x2 anti-submarine / anti-surface ship torpedo. The Type 43x2 is wire-guided and has improved tracking compared to the standard Type 43 torpedo. Each 400mm tube will take two Type 43x2 torpedoes.
The Gotland deploys the Saab Bofors Underwater Systems stand-off self-deployed Mine 42. The Mine 42, derived from a Type 27 torpedo, travels unguided to a predetermined location to lay on the seabed. The submarine also has the capacity to carry 48 mines mounted externally in a girdle arrangement.
SENSORS SUITE
The submarine is equipped with a CSU 90-2 integrated sonar sensor suite from Atlas Elektronik. This includes a passive cylindrical bow array, an intercept array and two passive flank arrays. The sonar system uses ADA software.
The submarine is fitted with a Kollmorgen search and attack periscope and a Terma Scanter navigation radar. The electronic support measures system is the Thales Defence Ltd. Manta radar surveillance and warning system. Manta carries out surveillance, detection, analysis, classification and identification of hostile radar threats from D-band to J-band.
"The fire control system has the capacity to control several torpedoes in the water simultaneously."PROPULSION SYSTEMS
The submarine is equipped with two MTU diesel engines and two Kockums V4-275R Stirling Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) units. The Stirling engines are mounted in elastic, soundproof modules and each provide up to 75kW. The submarine has the capacity for two weeks of air independent propulsion at a speed of 5kt without snorting.
The AIP uses liquid oxygen and diesel fuel in a controlled inert (helium) environment. The AIP liquid oxygen tanks are located on the deck below the engines. The propulsion system provides a speed of 11kt surfaced and 20kt dived
In November 2004, the Swedish Government approved a proposal for the US Navy to lease HMS Gotland and crew for one year to participate in naval exercises. Gotland arrived at the Naval Air Station North Island, San Diego in June 2005. The submarine will operate in the opposing force (OPFOR) role. In June 2006, the lease was extended for a further year. In July 2007, HMS Gotland left San Diego to return to Sweden.
COMBAT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
The ship's combat management system is the 9SCS Mark 3 from Saabtech Vectronics (formerly CelsiusTech). The system carries the Swedish Royal Navy designation SESUB 940A. The system uses an extended version of the ADA software from Saabtech Vectronics' 9LV Mk 3 surface ship combat management system.
The fire control system has the capacity to control several torpedoes in the water simultaneously. The 9SCS Mark 3 Combat Management System has three Type IID multifunction consoles from Terma. The terminals are for command and control, communications, and weapon control. The consoles are connected via a dual-Ethernet, copper-wire, Local-Area Network (LAN).
In January 2006, the Swedish government placed an order with Saab Systems for the upgrade of the combat system. The new system is called SESUB 960. Navigation, sensor management and weapon handling systems will also be upgraded.
TORPEDOES
The submarines are fitted with four 533mm torpedo tubes and two 400mm torpedo tubes. The Bofors Underwater Systems Type 613 torpedoes are fired from the 533mm tubes. The Type 613 is a heavy-weight anti-surface ship torpedo. It has wire guidance and passive homing, delivering a warhead of 240kg. The launch of the torpedo is by swim-out discharge: the speed is 40kt and the range, 20km. The 613 torpedo equips all Sweden's submarines, the A19 Gotland, A17 Vastergotland, A14 Nacken and A12 Sjoorrmen.
"The submarine is equipped with a CSU 90-2 integrated sonar sensor suite."Saab Bofors Underwater Systems has developed a new heavyweight torpedo for the Swedish Navy, the Torpedo 2000 (Swedish Navy designation Torpedo 62).
It is a high-speed anti-submarine / anti-surface torpedo with a range of more than 40km and speed of over 40kt.
The Gotland Class submarine will be equipped with the Torpedo 2000, which is fired from the 21in tubes. Gotland has the capacity to carry sixteen Torpedo 2000s. The combat system on the Gotland class submarines will be adapted to accommodate a new generation of torpedoes including the new Torpedo 2000, which will become the submarine's principle weapon.
The two 400mm tubes fire the Saab Bofors Underwater Systems Type 43 lightweight anti-submarine torpedo. The planned modifications to the submarine's combat system will accommodate Saab Bofors new lightweight Type 43x2 anti-submarine / anti-surface ship torpedo. The Type 43x2 is wire-guided and has improved tracking compared to the standard Type 43 torpedo. Each 400mm tube will take two Type 43x2 torpedoes.
The Gotland deploys the Saab Bofors Underwater Systems stand-off self-deployed Mine 42. The Mine 42, derived from a Type 27 torpedo, travels unguided to a predetermined location to lay on the seabed. The submarine also has the capacity to carry 48 mines mounted externally in a girdle arrangement.
SENSORS SUITE
The submarine is equipped with a CSU 90-2 integrated sonar sensor suite from Atlas Elektronik. This includes a passive cylindrical bow array, an intercept array and two passive flank arrays. The sonar system uses ADA software.
The submarine is fitted with a Kollmorgen search and attack periscope and a Terma Scanter navigation radar. The electronic support measures system is the Thales Defence Ltd. Manta radar surveillance and warning system. Manta carries out surveillance, detection, analysis, classification and identification of hostile radar threats from D-band to J-band.
"The fire control system has the capacity to control several torpedoes in the water simultaneously."PROPULSION SYSTEMS
The submarine is equipped with two MTU diesel engines and two Kockums V4-275R Stirling Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) units. The Stirling engines are mounted in elastic, soundproof modules and each provide up to 75kW. The submarine has the capacity for two weeks of air independent propulsion at a speed of 5kt without snorting.
The AIP uses liquid oxygen and diesel fuel in a controlled inert (helium) environment. The AIP liquid oxygen tanks are located on the deck below the engines. The propulsion system provides a speed of 11kt surfaced and 20kt dived
Super Falcon
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yes very gooooooood damn good ausum but the only probleum is for navy funds
Super Falcon
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South Africa placed a contract for three Type 209/1400 submarines in July 2000 on Howaldtswerke-Deutche Werft (HDW) and Thyssen Nordseewerke. The Type 209/1400 displaces 1,450t surfaced and 1,600t dived. The Manthatisi Class submarines replace the French-built Daphne Class submarines, SAS Spear, SAS Assegai and SAS Umkhonto that were decommissioned in 2003.
The first submarine, SAS Manthatisi (S101), was built by Howaldtswerke at Kiel. It was launched in June 2004 and commissioned in November 2005. The second and third submarines were built by Thyssen Nordseewerke in Emden. The SAS Charlotte Maxeke (S102) was launched in May 2005 and commissioned in March 2007. The third submarine, SAS Queen Modjadji (S103), was launched in 2006 and commissioned in May 2008.
"The first submarine,
SAS Manthatisi, was built by Howaldtswerke at Kiel."The submarines' homeport is Simon's Town naval base in Cape Town.
The submarines are named after powerful South African women. SAS Manthatisi is named after the female warrior chief of the Batlokwa tribe. SAS Charlotte Maxeke is named after the female political activist who campaigned for equality in the early 20th century. SAS Queen Modjadji is named after the South African rain queen.
12 countries operate the Type 209 submarine in five variants. The suffix denotes the tonnage displacement of the submarine: Type 209/1100 in service with the Hellenic Navy; Type 209/1200 (Greece, Turkey, Argentina, Peru, Columbia, Venezuela, Indonesia, South Korea), Type 209/1300 (Ecuador), Type 209/1400 (Turkey, Chile, Brazil, Greece and South Africa) and Type 209/1500 (India).
Manthatisi Class performance
The submarine has a crew of 30. The hull has a length of 62m, breadth of 7.6m and height of 5.8m. It has a maximum diving depth of 250m.
The Type 209/1400 submarine has a maximum speed of 10kt surfaced and 22kt dived.
Command and control
The Atlas Elektronik ISUS 90 integrated sensor underwater system provides fire control for the torpedoes. In addition to automatic fire and weapon control, it performs automatic sensor management as well as navigation and support functions.
Weapons
There are eight 533mm bow torpedo tubes and the submarine can carry up to 14 torpedoes.
Sensors
The submarine is fitted with a non-hull-penetrating mast supplied by Carl Zeiss Optronics. The mast integrates an optronic sensor with a high-definition resolution colour TV camera and third generation thermal imager. The cameras are gyroscopically stabilised in elevation and azimuth.
The sensor assembly is installed in a retractable unit outside the pressure hull of the submarine. The observation and operation of the mast are controlled on a console. The optronics mast system contains fully automatic functions for very fast surveillance and observation so the period of mast exposure above the surface is extremely short.
The surface search radar operates at I-band. The sonar suite includes an Atlas Elektronik CSU 90 hull-mounted passive and active search-and-attack sonar and flank sonar arrays.
Countermeasures
The submarine is equipped with a Saab Grintek Avionics electronic support measures system.
"The Manthatisi Class submarines are named after powerful South African women."The submarine's ELINT electronic intelligence system is the Saab S/UME-100 tactical electronic support measures which provides electronic intelligence analysis and amplitude direction finding capability.
The S/UME-100 comprises the ESM antenna, the radar warning receiver antenna, a signal distribution unit and an electronic warfare controller.
The S/UME-100 tactical ESM antennas interface to the optronics mast and attack periscope.
Propulsion
The submarines are fitted with a diesel electric propulsion system based on four MTU 12V 396 diesel engines delivering 2.8MW, with four alternators and one Siemens 3.7MW motor, driving a single shaft.
The first submarine, SAS Manthatisi (S101), was built by Howaldtswerke at Kiel. It was launched in June 2004 and commissioned in November 2005. The second and third submarines were built by Thyssen Nordseewerke in Emden. The SAS Charlotte Maxeke (S102) was launched in May 2005 and commissioned in March 2007. The third submarine, SAS Queen Modjadji (S103), was launched in 2006 and commissioned in May 2008.
"The first submarine,
SAS Manthatisi, was built by Howaldtswerke at Kiel."The submarines' homeport is Simon's Town naval base in Cape Town.
The submarines are named after powerful South African women. SAS Manthatisi is named after the female warrior chief of the Batlokwa tribe. SAS Charlotte Maxeke is named after the female political activist who campaigned for equality in the early 20th century. SAS Queen Modjadji is named after the South African rain queen.
12 countries operate the Type 209 submarine in five variants. The suffix denotes the tonnage displacement of the submarine: Type 209/1100 in service with the Hellenic Navy; Type 209/1200 (Greece, Turkey, Argentina, Peru, Columbia, Venezuela, Indonesia, South Korea), Type 209/1300 (Ecuador), Type 209/1400 (Turkey, Chile, Brazil, Greece and South Africa) and Type 209/1500 (India).
Manthatisi Class performance
The submarine has a crew of 30. The hull has a length of 62m, breadth of 7.6m and height of 5.8m. It has a maximum diving depth of 250m.
The Type 209/1400 submarine has a maximum speed of 10kt surfaced and 22kt dived.
Command and control
The Atlas Elektronik ISUS 90 integrated sensor underwater system provides fire control for the torpedoes. In addition to automatic fire and weapon control, it performs automatic sensor management as well as navigation and support functions.
Weapons
There are eight 533mm bow torpedo tubes and the submarine can carry up to 14 torpedoes.
Sensors
The submarine is fitted with a non-hull-penetrating mast supplied by Carl Zeiss Optronics. The mast integrates an optronic sensor with a high-definition resolution colour TV camera and third generation thermal imager. The cameras are gyroscopically stabilised in elevation and azimuth.
The sensor assembly is installed in a retractable unit outside the pressure hull of the submarine. The observation and operation of the mast are controlled on a console. The optronics mast system contains fully automatic functions for very fast surveillance and observation so the period of mast exposure above the surface is extremely short.
The surface search radar operates at I-band. The sonar suite includes an Atlas Elektronik CSU 90 hull-mounted passive and active search-and-attack sonar and flank sonar arrays.
Countermeasures
The submarine is equipped with a Saab Grintek Avionics electronic support measures system.
"The Manthatisi Class submarines are named after powerful South African women."The submarine's ELINT electronic intelligence system is the Saab S/UME-100 tactical electronic support measures which provides electronic intelligence analysis and amplitude direction finding capability.
The S/UME-100 comprises the ESM antenna, the radar warning receiver antenna, a signal distribution unit and an electronic warfare controller.
The S/UME-100 tactical ESM antennas interface to the optronics mast and attack periscope.
Propulsion
The submarines are fitted with a diesel electric propulsion system based on four MTU 12V 396 diesel engines delivering 2.8MW, with four alternators and one Siemens 3.7MW motor, driving a single shaft.
Penguin
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The Gotland Class - one of the world's most modern conventional submarine - is designed and built by Kockums AB. As are the Södermanland and Collins classes .
Kockums AB is a shipyard in Malmö, Sweden that is owned by the German shipyard HDW in Kiel. HDW itself is a subsidiary of the German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), in turn owned by ThyssenKrupp.
The TKMS group consists of:
Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft in Kiel, Germany
Nobiskrug in Rendsburg, Germany
Blohm + Voss in Hamburg, Germany
Nordseewerke in Emden, Germany
Kockums in Malmö, Sweden
Hellenic Shipyards Co. in Skaramangas, Greece
HDW has been involved in the following submarines (U-boats): Type 800 Dolphin class, Type 205, Type 206, Type 209, Type 212A and Type 214.
Thyssen Nordseewerke has been involved in the following submarines (U-boats): Kobben (Type 207) and Ula (Klasse 210) classes for the Royal Norwegian Navy, South Africa (Type 209), Argentina (TR-1700 submarine) and Israel (Type 800 Dolphin class).
Get the picture ....
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