Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[xenon54 out]

Well both systems have different requirements. Trophy is good for Urban warfare where rocket propelled rockets and anti-tank missiles are prevalent it's tiny pellets would have no effect on KE projectiles. AKKOR is an all rounder good for everything anti-tank, rockets, missiles, HEAT and KE projectiles.. Better to compare with Israel's Iron Fist.

Yep, just looking at the pictures alone tells that Akkor shouldt be compared to Trophy but to Iron Fist.


Akkor

Iron Fist

Trophy

 

[Yellow-place]

I am not sure that if it is written here or not... The aselsan engineer who talked to the donanımhaber Said at the end of the interview the akkor,s bomb has a radar in addition to the radars which is on tank, so the munition detects the target and then destroy it. He said they plan the advanced radar tech of aselsan at this point. The other systems does not have such a radar on their munitions but they have a timer and they try to destroy the target by booming at an approximate closure which is effected from speed changes of the target and decreases their kill performance.

So briefly the munitions of akkor will be guided while all the current systems doesnt have this and use timers.

 

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I am not sure that if it is written here or not... The aselsan engineer who talked to the donanımhaber Said at the end of the interview the akkor,s bomb has a radar in addition to the radars which is on tank, so the munition detects the target and then destroy it. He said they plan the advanced radar tech of aselsan at this point. The other systems does not have such a radar on their munitions but they have a timer and they try to destroy the target by booming at an approximate closure which is effected from speed changes of the target and decreases their kill performance.

So briefly the munitions of akkor will be guided while all the current systems doesnt have this and use timers.

It's just a proximity fuze...

Decades away from this

 

[era_shield]

It's just a proximity fuze...

Decades away from this

There's nothing there that would take Turkish companies decades to develop. By the way, the last time it was up for discussion, Quick Kill was going to be passed over in favour of Trophy due to its superior performance, but the politicians were pressured into waiting for the US system to develop. Trophy is similar to Akkor in performance. Not to mention it's been over 5 years and still the US military hasn't brought any Quick Kill systems into service. It's probably another US program which will get forgotten about because it's too expensive and underperforming.

 

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There's nothing there that would take Turkish companies decades to develop.

By the way, the last time it was up for discussion, Quick Kill was going to be passed over in favour of Trophy due to its superior performance, but the politicians were pressured into waiting for the US system to develop. Trophy is similar to Akkor in performance. Not to mention it's been over 5 years and still the US military hasn't brought any Quick Kill systems into service. It's probably another US program which will get forgotten about because it's too expensive and underperforming.

The projectile is, no Turkish company has enough knowledge to develop a miniature vertical launched pulsed rocket. That requires decades of knowledge, knowledge US has and Turkey has yet to venture into. Unless you have Scientific Journal from a Turkish company which states otherwise. Or are you suggesting Turkey is far more advanced than US in developing such a system which is taking them so long to mature.

Trophy is just a glorified shotgun, current form has no effect on Kinetic Projectiles. So no, it's performance is not similar to AKKOR. AKKOR is being developed for every type of threat including Kinetic Energy Projectiles.

 

[era_shield]

The projectile is, no Turkish company has enough knowledge to develop a miniature vertical launched pulsed rocket. That requires decades of knowledge, knowledge US has and Turkey has yet to venture into. Unless you have Scientific Journal from a Turkish company which states otherwise. Or are you suggesting Turkey is far more advanced than US in developing such a system which is taking them so long to mature.

All I'm saying is it wouldn't take "decades". Decades is a huge amount of time for a focused R&D program. Anyway, the delay with Quick Kill was apparently due to problems with the radars, not the rockets.

Trophy is just a glorified shotgun, current form has no effect on Kinetic Projectiles. So no, it's performance is not similar to AKKOR. AKKOR is being developed for every type of threat including Kinetic Energy Projectiles.

Ok. The point is that if Quick Kill was less effective than Trophy, and Akkor was comparable (or better) than Trophy, then Quick Kill isn't a development model we should be trying to imitate. Development started 5 years before Akkor's (and pulsed rocket tech already existed at that time) and at this rate we will have an almost as effective system in service before they do. And it will be much cheaper, too.

 

[-------]

All I'm saying is it wouldn't take "decades". Decades is a huge amount of time for a focused R&D program. Anyway, the delay with Quick Kill was apparently due to problems with the radars, not the rockets.

It will though, US started development of their programmable pulse rockets decades ago for their satellites. That tech knowledge base trickled to their SAM systems and now we see it in Quick Kill.

A more sophisticated demonstration of the pulse rockets in action.

Ok. The point is that if Quick Kill was less effective than Trophy, and Akkor was comparable (or better) than Trophy, then Quick Kill isn't a development model we should be trying to imitate. Development started 5 years before Akkor's (and pulsed rocket tech already existed at that time) and at this rate we will have an almost as effective system in service before they do. And it will be much cheaper, too.

US could have easily developed an AKKOR or Trophy like system. They chose to go with the most advantageous and complex route because they have the manpower, expertise and the funds to do so. Quick Kill once it is matured would have all the capabilities of Trophy and AKKOR. (Trophys projectile count and AKKORs ability to neutralize KE projectiles)

If I you were given a hypothetical choice of two matured launch systems; MK41 VLS or RIM-116. Which would you choose to have ?

 

[era_shield]

It will though, US started development of their programmable pulse rockets decades ago for their satellites. That tech knowledge base trickled to their SAM systems and now we see it in Quick Kill.

Science and technology has advanced a lot since the time when pulsed-rocket tech development first started. It's the same with any technology. Developing an iPhone starting in the 80s would've also taken decades, but today it takes a few months. Same with AESA, IIR sensors, etc.

US could have easily developed an AKKOR or Trophy like system. They chose to go with the most advantageous and complex route because they have the manpower, expertise and the funds to do so. Quick Kill once it is matured would have all the capabilities of Trophy and AKKOR. (Trophys projectile count and AKKORs ability to neutralize KE projectiles)

It's not advantageous if they make them so expensive that they can't afford any. The US doesn't seem to have the funds for Quick Kill, as they aren't even buying it and I don't think there are any plans to. It's the same with many, many other US military programs. They get developed into prototypes and then get cancelled due to lack of funds, or because development took so long that by the time it'd go into service it'd be outdated.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

ALTAY MBT Remote Controlled SARP turret control panel...

Thx Cabatli...

 

[Stimpy75]

here is the south african MONGOOSE system,which is very similar to AKKOR,but as you can see has more grenades

 

[era_shield]

here is the south african MONGOOSE system,which is very similar to AKKOR,but as you can see has more grenades

Mongoose is the name of the missile. The system is called LEDS. Also, it has no protection against KE penetrators while Akkor does. Also, Akkor has a wider vertical engagement angle.

 

[-------]

Science and technology has advanced a lot since the time when pulsed-rocket tech development first started. It's the same with any technology. Developing an iPhone starting in the 80s would've also taken decades, but today it takes a few months. Same with AESA, IIR sensors, etc.

You are mixing non-strategic/commercial products which can have dozens of companies injecting technology into it.
Here's a parts list of an iPhone, multiple manufacturers with decades of 'know how' in their respective areas..

How many companies on this planet can produce 3rd generation IIR sensors or AESA radars?

It's not advantageous if they make them so expensive that they can't afford any. The US doesn't seem to have the funds for Quick Kill, as they aren't even buying it and I don't think there are any plans to. It's the same with many, many other US military programs. They get developed into prototypes and then get cancelled due to lack of funds, or because development took so long that by the time it'd go into service it'd be outdated.

Innovative systems usually are expensive, it's a good thing we are talking about US, who have turbine powered tanks. Currently, they have no need for Quick Kill, and I don't think they are planning on starting a war anytime soon but when they do, you can be assured Quick Kill will get the nod.

Also, they have a lot of Technology Demonstrators, because, they can afford it.

ALTAY MBT Remote Controlled SARP turret control panel...

View attachment 224181

Thx Cabatli...

Bro, that's from the Otokar magazine you got scanned
A Century of the Tank, Mark 1 Vs Altay. - Album on Imgur

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Bro, that's from the Otokar magazine you got scanned
A Century of the Tank, Mark 1 Vs Altay. - Album on Imgur

lol really ?..



You know there so many brochures & magazines... I started to read them slowly...

 

[-------]

lol really ?..



You know there so many brochures & magazines... I started to read them slowly...

I think out of everything you uploaded, this was the first one I've read. I haven't even read MSI IDEF'15 magazine yet
Which is here if anyone is interested.
MSI IDEF'15 Ozel - Album on Imgur

 

[xxxKULxxx]

I think out of everything you uploaded, this was the first one I've read. I haven't even read MSI IDEF'15 magazine yet
Which is here if anyone is interested.
MSI IDEF'15 Ozel - Album on Imgur

I'm reading that issue of MSI now and i didn't read anything else...