Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[Bismarck]

ALTAY TANKI

* Hani ihalesiz yapılmıştı bu iş .. sakallı, akraba .. geyikleri ..
* 7 <= 3,5 Denklemini, ilim, Fen, Matematiğini bir anlatın ..
* Palet Fabrikası Tank Yapılmış .. Allah akıl versin ..
* işçi bedava imiş .. adam 3,5 Milyar € ne oldugunu anlayamıyor ...
* Muhalefet edecem diye Kepaze nasıl olunur ...
* Yalanmış ... Ulan Koç tan ses yok .. Avukatı ...

Bu kadar ucuz .. bu kadar sığ .. bu kadar donanımsız Kadrolarla Muhalefet olmasın Bin Yıl Mahkumsunuz Kahrolun ve Kendi Kininizde Boğulun ...

In English please.

Some very important questions remain though:

For how much money did Erdogan sell the tank palet factory to Qatari army?

The koc family is a bunch of angels who have absolutely nothing except Tutkey’s interests in heart (like profits maybe?). So why was the project given to the sons of satan which is BMC?

When will Erdogan sell the rest of Turkish army to Qatari army?

What will happen to Turkish generals once Erdogan completely betrays Turkey by getting the serial production contract for half the price?

Seriously?

 

[TheMightyBender]

Seriously?

Oh yeah, definitely. This one time (about 3 years ago) I was just walking on the street, minding my own business and eating my bagel when out of nowhere Erdogan jumped right in front of me and stole my bagel and flew away. I suspect he gave my bagel to the Qataris. Those Qatari generals got fat from my bagel. One day I will travel to Qatar and get to the bottom of this.

Of course it is possible that it might have been a seagull, not Erdogan, but blaming Erdogan for everything left and right is a trend in Turkey so I am going to get on board.

 

[Deliorman]

Oh yeah, definitely. This one time (about 3 years ago) I was just walking on the street, minding my own business and eating my bagel when out of nowhere Erdogan jumped right in front of me and stole my bagel and flew away. I suspect he gave my bagel to the Qataris. Those Qatari generals got fat from my bagel. One day I will travel to Qatar and get to the bottom of this.

Of course it is possible that it might have been a seagull, not Erdogan, but blaming Erdogan for everything left and right is a trend in Turkey so I am going to get on board.

They fu*cked up the whole project and nobody knows if we will even see these tanks being produced ever but at least you can play it smart and make a few jokes about it too. Good.

 

[ANMDT]

All in all,
When do we get to see first Altay produced by BMC?
Are we waiting the engine, or a factory to be built, or BMC to hire sufficient number of engineers to re-evaluate design of Altay tank? What exactly delays the delivery of Altay?
Progress of T-129 was quite fast,despite of having the similar timelines and procedures ,why Altay is delayed this long?
Will they eventually and finally sign something serious with SSB ?,Will they get the responsibilities of not delivering in time and receive fines from the state for that reason?
Anyone to reply these?

 

[Archsolo]

All in all,
When do we get to see first Altay produced by BMC?
Are we waiting the engine, or a factory to be built, or BMC to hire sufficient number of engineers to re-evaluate design of Altay tank? What exactly delays the delivery of Altay?
Progress of T-129 was quite fast,despite of having the similar timelines and procedures ,why Altay is delayed this long?
Will they eventually and finally sign something serious with SSB ?,Will they get the responsibilities of not delivering in time and receive fines from the state for that reason?
Anyone to reply these?

No, but I could offer a salty, triggered, ironic response about how it‘s not the fault of our corrupted bureaucracy. So our "partili" crowd feels better, if that‘s gonna get us anywhere.

I mean, why voice any legitimate critique, if we can just continue our big circle jerk about this and that company or family I or you dislike. After all, we live in a tribal state and pragmatism is overrated.

 

[TheMightyBender]

All in all,
When do we get to see first Altay produced by BMC?
Are we waiting the engine, or a factory to be built, or BMC to hire sufficient number of engineers to re-evaluate design of Altay tank? What exactly delays the delivery of Altay?
Progress of T-129 was quite fast,despite of having the similar timelines and procedures ,why Altay is delayed this long?
Will they eventually and finally sign something serious with SSB ?,Will they get the responsibilities of not delivering in time and receive fines from the state for that reason?
Anyone to reply these?

I can answer all of your questions with two sentences:

This project is not as urgent/high priority as most people here think. Even if it was why on earth would you award the contract for 2X the price just to get it 1-2 years early? (Even that is uncertain)

But no matter what happens, even if the project was awarded for half the price of Koc (after some people here bitched for months about how Koc should have received the project) the trend of asking shady questions continues. By shady I mean the following:

1. Loaded questions. (Like will they eventually sign something serious...) this shows you have no intention of finding answers but just want to impose your opinions, i.e. nothing serious has been signed yet, even if the price of contract is already foxed.. A street equivalent of this question would be “When will you stop eating sh*t?”

2. Unnecessary questions. These are questions that are not asked anywhere else about any other project and whose sole aim is to make the project seem very questionable. Example : “will they get the responsibility of not delivering on time...”. This is a redundant question as long as there is no evidence to the contrary, i.e. “why wouldnt they be?”

3. Repeated questions in different forms. Again the sole purpose of these questions is to falsely represent the project as being more questionable than it already is. Example: asking “why is altay delayed” 4-5 times in the same post because now that the turkish taxpayer has saved $3bn you are running out of things to complain about.

4. Questions no one here would know the answer to. These questions are aimed at making the project look surreptitious, since people here have no way of knowing the answer to them. Example: “will they eventually sign something...” like “b*h how would I know? How would anyone here know? What is the purpose of you asking this question? Have you asked this question about any other project in this forum?”

I hope this is salty and “ironic” enough for your taste

 

[Archsolo]

I can answer all of your questions with two sentences:

This project is not as urgent/high priority as most people here think. Even if it was why on earth would you award the contract for 2X the price just to get it 1-2 years early? (Even that is uncertain)

But no matter what happens, even if the project was awarded for half the price of Koc (after some people here bitched for months about how Koc should have received the project) the trend of asking shady questions continues. By shady I mean the following:

1. Loaded questions. (Like will they eventually sign something serious...) this shows you have no intention of finding answers but just want to impose your opinions, i.e. nothing serious has been signed yet, even if the price of contract is already foxed.. A street equivalent of this question would be “When will you stop eating sh*t?”

2. Unnecessary questions. These are questions that are not asked anywhere else about any other project and whose sole aim is to make the project seem very questionable. Example : “will they get the responsibility of not delivering on time...”. This is a redundant question as long as there is no evidence to the contrary, i.e. “why wouldnt they be?”

3. Repeated questions in different forms. Again the sole purpose of these questions is to falsely represent the project as being more questionable than it already is. Example: asking “why is altay delayed” 4-5 times in the same post because now that the turkish taxpayer has saved $3bn you are running out of things to complain about.

4. Questions no one here would know the answer to. These questions are aimed at making the project look surreptitious, since people here have no way of knowing the answer to them. Example: “will they eventually sign something...” like “b*h how would I know? How would anyone here know? What is the purpose of you asking this question? Have you asked this question about any other project in this forum?”

I hope this is salty and “ironic” enough for your taste

Unfortunately it‘s just a little salty and I actually didn‘t ask for any saltiness at all.


If I‘d sum it up, it‘s mainly: "dunno dunno, you‘re making us look bad, why do you even care? hey we got m60s and old leos to rock through Syria, don‘t we?"


What all of this boils down to, is the simple question of why we are going through all of these lengths and I‘m sure you know why as much as anyone.


Get German support and engineers -> ahh damn, aint working we suck at foreign politics -> set up a new factory -> ahh we‘re too incompetent -> give me that valuable state owned company to mess up even worse etc etc.


It‘s not even funny anymore.


All of this could have been avoided, that‘s what is bothering folks, but instead of finally seeing through our own bullshit, the show just continues. At least it feels like it.


But hey, maybe with more time, there might be an even better product coming out. So I‘m gonna stop complaining right here, just for the sake of the thread.

 

[ANMDT]

I can answer all of your questions with two sentences:

This project is not as urgent/high priority as most people here think. Even if it was why on earth would you award the contract for 2X the price just to get it 1-2 years early? (Even that is uncertain)

But no matter what happens, even if the project was awarded for half the price of Koc (after some people here bitched for months about how Koc should have received the project) the trend of asking shady questions continues. By shady I mean the following:

1. Loaded questions. (Like will they eventually sign something serious...) this shows you have no intention of finding answers but just want to impose your opinions, i.e. nothing serious has been signed yet, even if the price of contract is already foxed.. A street equivalent of this question would be “When will you stop eating sh*t?”

2. Unnecessary questions. These are questions that are not asked anywhere else about any other project and whose sole aim is to make the project seem very questionable. Example : “will they get the responsibility of not delivering on time...”. This is a redundant question as long as there is no evidence to the contrary, i.e. “why wouldnt they be?”

3. Repeated questions in different forms. Again the sole purpose of these questions is to falsely represent the project as being more questionable than it already is. Example: asking “why is altay delayed” 4-5 times in the same post because now that the turkish taxpayer has saved $3bn you are running out of things to complain about.

4. Questions no one here would know the answer to. These questions are aimed at making the project look surreptitious, since people here have no way of knowing the answer to them. Example: “will they eventually sign something...” like “b*h how would I know? How would anyone here know? What is the purpose of you asking this question? Have you asked this question about any other project in this forum?”

I hope this is salty and “ironic” enough for your taste

If you think altay project is not urgent, i guess we dont have anything to further to speak about. We can keep modernizing M60s , Leaning of Germany (such a good reasonable way right? ) for spare parts of leopards. Have we somehow got abrahams or challengers in storage or else that i am not aware of,to be such cool about the project?

1-2 years? It is really too naive to think, it already has been 2 years since delivery or prototypes (time passes mate, check it out). Koç has proposed to start serial production in 2 years (would be by now), BMC here doesnt have a factory, employee or experience say 4 (with tank palet factory) years until it starts .

Everything aside,you know the " thing " between Erdogan and Koc family since years, if you believe the reason for awarding BMC wasnt political at all.

I asked the questions to receive some exact answers but the way you answer clarifies everything

 

[revojam]

If you think altay project is not urgent, i guess we dont have anything to further to speak about. We can keep modernizing M60s , Leaning of Germany (such a good reasonable way right? ) for spare parts of leopards. Have we somehow got abrahams or challengers in storage or else that i am not aware of,to be such cool about the project?

1-2 years? It is really too naive to think, it already has been 2 years since delivery or prototypes (time passes mate, check it out). Koç has proposed to start serial production in 2 years (would be by now), BMC here doesnt have a factory, employee or experience say 4 (with tank palet factory) years until it starts .

Everything aside,you know the " thing " between Erdogan and Koc family since years, if you believe the reason for awarding BMC wasnt political at all.

I asked the questions to receive some exact answers but the way you answer clarifies everything

Indeed in fact i was gonna write an answer like you first then decided not same waste time for an idiot thinks its okay send nation's young men to battlefield in cold war era junks in current age.

 

[TheMightyBender]

If you think altay project is not urgent, i guess we dont have anything to further to speak about. We can keep modernizing M60s , Leaning of Germany (such a good reasonable way right? ) for spare parts of leopards. Have we somehow got abrahams or challengers in storage or else that i am not aware of,to be such cool about the project?

1-2 years? It is really too naive to think, it already has been 2 years since delivery or prototypes (time passes mate, check it out). Koç has proposed to start serial production in 2 years (would be by now), BMC here doesnt have a factory, employee or experience say 4 (with tank palet factory) years until it starts .

Everything aside,you know the " thing " between Erdogan and Koc family since years, if you believe the reason for awarding BMC wasnt political at all.

I asked the questions to receive some exact answers but the way you answer clarifies everything

I agree that we should agree to disagree on things like the reason for preference of BMC and priority of the altay project in face of other projects going on then, but I must point out that if the opinion of one random guy on the internet “clarifies everything” for you, you probably have a very narrow outlook in life. Just something to think about. Personally for me your opinion holds very little weight (nothing personal, this is just how I form an opinion), I would have to take hundreds of opinions before things become things become clear for me.

 

[Timur]

for spare parts of leopard

germany? what a good argument when we have many many parts from germany.. lets just mention one

THE ENGINE

you said it good

Leaning of Germany (such a good reasonable way right? )

so you think altay will put you in a place where you are not leaning of germany?

what a joke! our own engine will take time and I think we are not gonna see altay until its ready..

 

[Bismarck]

Why not sharing the project? Okay, Erdogan don't want involved Koc because of some reasons. Yes, he risks the project because of vanity and nepotism, but that's another story. But why not involving FNSS. FNSS could start to produce some parts already until BMC factory is finished.

 

[Deliorman]

So now people shouldn’t even care when Altay will be in service cuz Turkey doesn’t even need it urgently anyway.

Then why did they even started the projects 10 YEARS ago? Was it all for the fun or just cuz someone wanted to spend billions of liras on building a tank nobody needs.

 

[TheMightyBender]

Why are people so intent on flagrantly displaying their stupidity? Which part of “high priority” dont you guys understand? Nobody said “nobody needs” this tank or that it is “ok to send nations youth in cold war era junk”. Aren’t you guys capable of coming up with any arguments without the use of reductio ad absurdum? Of course we need it and of course it is not ok. But we live in real life, not on your game servers. We have a finite amount of resources and money and lots of projects with higher priority. For example while we have some tanks, we have no air defence systems.

But what do you guys care? All you want is for your master Koc to get the contract with exorbitant prices. Until of course the economy crashes at which point “Erdogan f*cked up the economy”.

Peace

 

[Faith_of_the_Fallen]

People who talk about BMC's tender offer being cheaper absolutely dont know what they are talking about. Lets see if you can win the Nuclear Reactor construction tender, by giving half the price with respect to all your competitors with your shitty regular construction firm; you will definitely not. Everybody knows this BMC stuff is all about political and everyone in their right mind knows that BMC never had the preparation or credentials to earn the right to produce Altay tanks given their expertise, experience and production abilities about manufacturing tanks. You dont get to earn this kind of huge tender without showing your ability, expertise or readiness for this kind of huge responsibility and workload. That is why i doubt the intelligence or sincerity of anyone claiming that BMC was the right company to give the responsibility of producing Altay tanks. Just accept it, Altay project is doomed unless a major intervention is applied.