Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[MKALE1]

i am not tank maker expert but i think BMC engineers are not fools. If they claim 10 tons reduction, there might be some supportting arguments for their theisis. Here somebody's problem not technical but only political bs.
Anyway, there is Turkish proverb, it ürür kervan yürür, haters gonna hate. Erdogan in vatanseverligi bazi tiplerin tartismasiyla gozardi edilmeyecek kadar güçlü.

 

[Test7]

i am not tank maker expert but i think BMC engineers are not fools. If they claim 10 tons reduction, there might be some supportting arguments for their theisis. Here somebody's problem not technical but only political bs.
Anyway, there is Turkish proverb, it ürür kervan yürür, haters gonna hate. Erdogan in vatanseverligi bazi tiplerin tartismasiyla gozardi edilmeyecek kadar güçlü.

i wonder, how old are you?

 

[KediKesenFare3]

How many in numbers.

I lost track but last time I checked ~20 engineers and staff members left so far.

 

[Exxxe]

Honestly looks like everyone on this thread have claimed to be experts :
-Masters in tanks engineering and production
- negotiators who know every bit of the deals and agreements happening
- always correct and what they say is what is true

This thread became a Sh*t show full of complaints
Look they announced 10 ton reduction great so what ??
is it possible ??is it stupid ?? No one knows but I do know it's none of our business they are the ones working on it not us

And the BMC , Otokar complaints are old whether they spread a 100 or a 1000 pages nothing will change so drop it already besides everyone knows One of The major success the current government has is the defense sector so why would they start screwing up now after 17 years of success in this sector

 

[GlobalMillitary96]

Honestly looks like everyone on this thread have claimed to be experts :
-Masters in tanks engineering and production
- negotiators who know every bit of the deals and agreements happening
- always correct and what they say is what is true

This thread became a Sh*t show full of complaints
Look they announced 10 ton reduction great so what ??
is it possible ??is it stupid ?? No one knows but I do know it's none of our business they are the ones working on it not us

And the BMC , Otokar complaints are old whether they spread a 100 or a 1000 pages nothing will change so drop it already besides everyone knows One of The major success the current government has is the defense sector so why would they start screwing up now after 17 years of success in this sector

If you're getting annoyed then unwatch the thread.

It is our right to discuss the state of the Altay program. It has been in the pipeline for a long time. SSM had started the preplanning in the mid 90s. Otokar started designing the tank around 2008. They revealed it in 2011. They worked so hard and eventually perfected the tank by 2016. It passed all tests and the military loved the prototypes.

Otokar gave an offer to the government for a 1000 tanks and the government rejected it. We could have started production in 2016 and even prior. So the government started the tender and gave the contract to a company with zero tracked vehicle experience.

Do you wanna know why? Because half of BMC was sold to Qatar in 2014 after Ethem Sancak took over. This all has to do with Erdogan's love affair with Qatar. This political nonsense is derailing our nation's defense capabilities. We need new tanks to replace our cold war era inventory. I don't know why we are wasting our time like this.

Some people will say "Qatar is our ally and they will help fund the project!". You do realize that they are already kissing and making up with Saudi Arabia? They will likely sell secrets about the project to our enemies. They have the largest US base in the middle east, yet you all think that they're "against the new world order". Might as well sell half of Aselsan's shares to Israel.

Back to the topic of the tank itself. Why on earth would you give the contract to BMC? There is literally no reason to do that apart from picking favorites. Otokar perfected the Altay, they know everything about it and they have the capability to mass produce it. Are you trying to doubt their abilities? I don't think you realize that the government is picking BMC beacause the guy who runs it is an Erdogan ally. There is literally no other reason.

F*ck our military capabilities!
F*ck the safety of our tank crew!
F*ck the years of hard work that Otokar put in!
I'm going to make a company that has no clue about tanks or tracked vehicles build the Altay because guess what? My best friend works there and he promised to give me some of the profits!

I'd love to see the excuses some of you guys will come up with. If you defend the government's moves regarding the Altay, you well and truly are brainwashed.

 

[eagleeye]

Tank experts popping up like mushrooms nowadays.

Thread in icine ettiniz yine.

 

[u.MP]

Funny, instead of talking about the horrible proces of Altay's production you reply with some weak sh*t like this. Why dont you actually try to reply to the points that are being made instead of "lol you dont know anything" .

 

[Adıvar]

Funny, instead of talking about the horrible proces of Altay's production you reply with some weak sh*t like this. Why dont you actually try to reply to the points that are being made instead of "lol you dont know anything" .

"unconditional positive regard"

 

[MKALE1]

i wonder, how old are you?

i also wonder your mental age. 32 i am. i am very bored of somebody's politic flood here.Always they try to throwing the sh.t to Erdoğan by irrelavent claims. Maybe they can use sözcü website for this purpose but not here.

 

[mete]

About that "10 tons reduction" issue...

There are 3 possibilities;

1) They will redesign the entire tank and downgrade it. Is it possible? I do not think so. I do not think they are capable of designing the downgraded version.

2) They will reduce the weight and they will not downgrade the tank while doing this. To accomplish this they need to have the most uber super unbelievable material technology so they can reduce the weight 10 tons with material change. So super that BMC is the most advanced company far from entire humanity and its accomplishments throughout history. Is is possible? C'mon!

3) They are lying. Only this makes sense.

 

[Exxxe]

Funny, instead of talking about the horrible proces of Altay's production you reply with some weak sh*t like this. Why dont you actually try to reply to the points that are being made instead of "lol you dont know anything" .

Sure I would be happy to

 

[Exxxe]

If you're getting annoyed then unwatch the thread.

It is our right to discuss the state of the Altay program. It has been in the pipeline for a long time. SSM had started the preplanning in the mid 90s. Otokar started designing the tank around 2008. They revealed it in 2011. They worked so hard and eventually perfected the tank by 2016. It passed all tests and the military loved the prototypes.

Otokar gave an offer to the government for a 1000 tanks and the government rejected it. We could have started production in 2016 and even prior. So the government started the tender and gave the contract to a company with zero tracked vehicle experience.

Do you wanna know why? Because half of BMC was sold to Qatar in 2014 after Ethem Sancak took over. This all has to do with Erdogan's love affair with Qatar. This political nonsense is derailing our nation's defense capabilities. We need new tanks to replace our cold war era inventory. I don't know why we are wasting our time like this.

Some people will say "Qatar is our ally and they will help fund the project!". You do realize that they are already kissing and making up with Saudi Arabia? They will likely sell secrets about the project to our enemies. They have the largest US base in the middle east, yet you all think that they're "against the new world order". Might as well sell half of Aselsan's shares to Israel.

Back to the topic of the tank itself. Why on earth would you give the contract to BMC? There is literally no reason to do that apart from picking favorites. Otokar perfected the Altay, they know everything about it and they have the capability to mass produce it. Are you trying to doubt their abilities? I don't think you realize that the government is picking BMC beacause the guy who runs it is an Erdogan ally. There is literally no other reason.

F*ck our military capabilities!
F*ck the safety of our tank crew!
F*ck the years of hard work that Otokar put in!
I'm going to make a company that has no clue about tanks or tracked vehicles build the Altay because guess what? My best friend works there and he promised to give me some of the profits!

I'd love to see the excuses some of you guys will come up with. If you defend the government's moves regarding the Altay, you well and truly are brainwashed.

Yes you have the right to discuss the status of the project but honestly all you are doing is whine and complain about it not discussing anything while also knowing nothing ( show proof of all the slander you are saying )

Do you know the state of the engine for the tank ??
What makes you say " in 2016 we were ready "
Do you know whether issues occurred while planning for mass production??
Do you know if foreign holders in the project decided to be a pain in the butt or not ?
Maybe a delay for something ?


Otokar gave a 1000 offer / tender do you know the price / details of the tender ?
Do you know why the government made the changes ?
Look maybe work on the project continues to
A) improve it
b) have a domestic engine
c) reduce price
d) reduce foreign involvement in the tank and other reasons we dont know about
Or
The project is struggling with issues we also dont know about

either way you gotta wait and see what happens but again you continue blame the government not even knowing for what A government that has so far delivered nothing but success to the defense sector

One thing we all can agree on NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON

But considering all the excellent projects so far the government successfully completed it earned my trust for this one

 

[Quasar]

Anyway just incase if some people want to read the whole interview with Yasin Özturk on MSI most is already known and already discussed here in PDF but still few new things are available.

http://www.milscint.com/tr/soylesi-bmc-yonetim-kurulu-uyesi-t-yasin-ozturk-6/

''Sanayileşme konusu, bu projenin belki de en kritik noktası ve sözleşme görüşmelerinin bu kadar uzun sürmesinin de bir noktada sebebi. Evet, biz bu projenin ana yüklenicisiyiz; ama işin büyük bölümünü, aslında alt yüklenicilerimizle birlikte yapacağız. BMC’nin toplamdaki iş payı, BMC POWER sorumluluğundaki güç grubunu da dâhil ettiğimizde, %20’leri geçmez. Hatta güç grubunu çıkarttığımızda, bu oran %10’u bile zor bulur. Dolayısıyla alt yüklenicilerimize, bu noktada önemli görevler düşüyor. Bunlar arasında; ASELSAN, HAVELSAN, Makina ve Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu ve ROKETSAN gibi büyük firmalar da var. ''

''Hâlihazırda zırh sacını Türkiye’de üretebilen kimse yok. O yüzden bu konuda da yoğun bir mesai harcayarak Ereğli Demir Çelik Fabrikaları (Erdemir) ile zırh sacını nasıl yerlileştirebiliriz diye değerlendiriyoruz. ''

''Askı palet donanımı ile ilgili de yerlileştirme konusunda benzer bir mesaimiz var; çünkü tank üzerindeki mevcut süspansiyon sistemi, Kore Cumhuriyeti menşeli. Palet baklalarının, Arifiye’deki 1’inci Ana Bakım Fabrika Müdürlüğü’nde üretimi konusunda görüşmelerimiz sürüyor. ''

and just a note: ALTAY's Korean cousin is around 60 tons!

 

[MKALE1]

Anyway just incase if some people want to read the whole interview with Yasin Özturk on MSI most is already known and already discussed here in PDF but still few new things are available.

http://www.milscint.com/tr/soylesi-bmc-yonetim-kurulu-uyesi-t-yasin-ozturk-6/

''Sanayileşme konusu, bu projenin belki de en kritik noktası ve sözleşme görüşmelerinin bu kadar uzun sürmesinin de bir noktada sebebi. Evet, biz bu projenin ana yüklenicisiyiz; ama işin büyük bölümünü, aslında alt yüklenicilerimizle birlikte yapacağız. BMC’nin toplamdaki iş payı, BMC POWER sorumluluğundaki güç grubunu da dâhil ettiğimizde, %20’leri geçmez. Hatta güç grubunu çıkarttığımızda, bu oran %10’u bile zor bulur. Dolayısıyla alt yüklenicilerimize, bu noktada önemli görevler düşüyor. Bunlar arasında; ASELSAN, HAVELSAN, Makina ve Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu ve ROKETSAN gibi büyük firmalar da var. ''

''Hâlihazırda zırh sacını Türkiye’de üretebilen kimse yok. O yüzden bu konuda da yoğun bir mesai harcayarak Ereğli Demir Çelik Fabrikaları (Erdemir) ile zırh sacını nasıl yerlileştirebiliriz diye değerlendiriyoruz. ''

''Askı palet donanımı ile ilgili de yerlileştirme konusunda benzer bir mesaimiz var; çünkü tank üzerindeki mevcut süspansiyon sistemi, Kore Cumhuriyeti menşeli. Palet baklalarının, Arifiye’deki 1’inci Ana Bakım Fabrika Müdürlüğü’nde üretimi konusunda görüşmelerimiz sürüyor. ''

and just a note: ALTAY's Korean cousin is around 60 tons!

Hey friend you completely screwed up everybody obbessed with BMC, QATAR and ERDOGAN with that comment.
Argoda bir söz var, simdi s.. atmissin. Hadi (sözde) "tank eksperleri" bunu da açıklasın..

 

[Buğra]

To see something shady is going on with BMC, you do not need to be an expert. All the things related to BMC is extremely unpleasant. First of all, let's look at its owner, Ethem Sancak. He was a member of the Maoist terrorist organization in the '70s. In the '90s, when the secularist had the power in Turkey, he was calling Aydın Dogan as his father.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/ahmet-hakan/ethem-sancaki-nerede-tanidim-40076590

When AKP took the government, he became Islamist and Erdogan literally gave him BMC because he is a cousin of the first lady, Emine Erdogan. He tells this, not me.

https://odatv.com/eski-sosyalist-ye...-sancaktan-itiraf-gibi-aciklama-17011908.html

Every one of us in this forum knew that he was going to get the tender. Isn't this corruption, how can you guys defend such kind of act and say 'let's wait, maybe something good will show up'? No, it won't. This is the mentality which creates the difference between developed and undeveloped countries. Please read 'Why Nations Fail' by Daron Acemoglu.

Now, they are trying to include BMC in nearly all defense projects. We all accept that the defense industry is one of the few sectors which really go well. We should raise our voice so they do not ruin this sector as well.

Most of the people who criticize all this BMC thing are non-partisan people and they want best for their country. Do not try to silence them as you do at FETO and 'Peace process' cases. A lot of people tried to warn you about the real aims of FETO and PKK, but you did not listen to them because what Erdogan tell is more important for you guys than the reality. I do not support any political party in Turkey right now so this topic is not a political issue for me. I just want my country to be successful and when I see something is going wrong, I want to share with others. I believe most of the people who criticize BMC case in here feel the same with me.