Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[Nefer]

View attachment 154369 We have told Why Altay is not an XK-2 many times but I think It is needed to mention same things...

Regarding Altay chassis, Suspension system of Altay has nothing to do with XK-2. Contrary to XK-2, Altay has 7 wheels which makes it bigger and heavier than equivalent. Contrary to XK-2, Driver section of chassis is stationed in the center of design. Altay doesn't have an autoloader. I think it is no need to talk about Turret design differences. All of us have eyes, more or less brain and basic comprehension abilities which seperate h@mo sapiens from others.

Did I claim that on the technical level the Altay is the same as XK2, because reading all of the above posters it clearly looks that way, let me use simple plain English, so maybe all of you are able to understand

When I look at the Altay tank and look at the Korean XK2 tank and look at the American Abrams tank and look and the Israeli merkava tank and look the British challenger and look at the French Leclerc and look at the Russian t90 and look at the japanese Type 90. I Cannot help but notice that out of all those tanks XK2 and Altay especially the lower part of the tank look similar, kuh kuh kuh have a similar shape and when I looked into it I at the time found information which was 2 years ago that we Licensed XK2 design and got help from the rotem engineers to build our own tank.

For Example

Altay will have the stronger chassis characteristics of the K2 Black Panther MBT. It will have a re-designed Turkish turret and heavier armour than the K2. It will also have seven tracked wheels and a longer hull. A decision on the suspension system and other systems has yet to be finalised.

Altay Main Battle Tank - Army Technology

With that its fair to asume that Altay tank started with XK2 design as a starting point to its own version. So basicly modifying the entire tank, they can change the length, they can change drivers position, they can change the turret they can improve all sorts of stuff, put in aselsan latest tech, but that doesn't take away that its not a Modified design from the original thing which its based on to meet our own needs.

 

[era_shield]

Did I claim that on the technical level the Altay is the same as XK2, because reading all of the above posters it clearly looks that way, let me use simple plain English, so maybe all of you are able to understand

When I look at the Altay tank and look at the Korean XK2 tank and look at the American Abrams tank and look and the Israeli merkava tank and look the British challenger and look at the French Leclerc and look at the Russian t90 and look at the japanese Type 90. I Cannot help but notice that out of all those tanks XK2 and Altay especially the lower part of the tank look similar, kuh kuh kuh have a similar shape and when I looked into it I at the time found information which was 2 years ago that we Licensed XK2 design and got help from the rotem engineers to build our own tank.

For Example

Altay Main Battle Tank - Army Technology

With that its fair to asume that Altay tank started with XK2 design as a starting point to its own version. So basicly modifying the entire tank, they can change the length, they can change drivers position, they can change the turret they can improve all sorts of stuff, put in aselsan latest tech, but that doesn't take away that its not a Modified design from the original thing which its based on to meet our own needs.

I suggest you read this thread instead of guessing based on outward appearance, as this topic has been covered already. The link you used earlier is inaccurate, by the way, as there was no armor tech transfer, and the main gun isn't even designed by Hyundai-Rotem but by Rheinmetall. To save you some time: Altay isn't a modified K2 - there are some shared subsystems and Hyundai-Rotem provided support with the design, but they are different designs from the ground up.

 

[-SINAN-]

let me use simple plain English, so maybe all of you are able to understand

Look pal, talking without knowledge and making meaningless assumptions are not the feat of Turkish users. If you wanna swing that way you should go to Iranian section... they are much like you.

 

[Nefer]

Look pal, talking without knowledge and making meaningless assumptions are not the feat of Turkish users. If you wanna swing that way you should go to Iranian section... they are much like you.

So I asume that this link is telling lies too

The Altay Program

Turkey’s new tank is named after Gen. Fahrettin Altay, a cavalry commander in Turkey’s War of Independence. The tank will use a 120mm smoothbore gun, with the usual 7.62mm coaxial machine gun and a pintle-mounted 12.7mm machin gun up top. Compared to the ROK’s K2 Black Panther, the Altay is reportedly longer, with an added road wheel and a slightly modified turret. It may also carry heavier armor.

The 2008 System Development deal includes the production of 4 prototypes worth $70 million dollars, and technology transfer worth $330 million dollars.

Once development is complete, a second set of production contracts will be signed. The Turks’ official goal was to design, test, and build the first Altay tank in 6.5 years, which would place the event in early 2015. So far, 2015 remains the target date for production to begin.

Turkey reportedly plans to produce 200-250 of the tanks locally.

Industrial

Under this $400 million development deal, The Republic of Turkey will own all design and intellectual property rights to the final vehicle. Turkey’s Otokar will build the tanks in cooperation with various sub-contractors, including:

• South Korea’s Hyundai Rotem (XK2 Black Panther base design, expertise and parts as required, technical support system, C3I, help with modernization of Otokar’s factory in the northwestern province of Sakarya).
• Aselsan (fire control and C3I systems, other sub-systems)
• MTU Friedrichshafen (1,500 hp diesel engine. May be replaced by 1,800 hp Turkish engine if they can develop it)
• SSM’s STM group (C3I co-development with Aselsan)
• Turkish Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corporation, i.e. state-owned MKEK, (120mm/55 caliber main gun)
• Roketsan (Modular Armor Package)

Foreign companies are reportedly under consideration for key items beyond the engine, including armor and complex systems integration.

Nov 18/14: XK-2. South Korea’s WON 2+ trillion (about $1.84 billion) XK-2 tank project, which served as the basis for Altay, has experienced delays due to technical difficulties. Acceleration performance has been a particular issue, and the ROK plans to field it with a locally-made engine and transmission by 2017. So far, about 100 K-2 Black Panther tanks have been deployed in Korea. Sources: Yonhap, “S. Korea to put K-2 combat tank into full service by 2017″.

Source : defenseindustrydaily.com
Written by : Defense Industry Daily staff

Turkey & South Korea’s Altay Tank Project

 

[-SINAN-]

So I asume that this link is telling lies too
Turkey & South Korea’s Altay Tank Project

It would be nice if you had just copied the part that you are referring to.. and gave link.. I didn't read the link.

But if you want sources, i can find you anything you want.
For example: German deputy speaker: NATO must stop Turkey support for ISIS

What is important is the credibility of the source and author... I suggest you to believe our own companies' and officials' statements instead of 3rd party observers.

 

[xenon54 out]

For example: German deputy speaker: NATO must stop Turkey support for ISIS

This ugly b*tch claudia, she was even in Gezi protests, shes meddling too much in our domestic issues, she can go to Kandil and play the comfort woman for pkk if she likes them so much, would probably even enjoy it.

 

[era_shield]

So I asume that this link is telling lies too





Source : defenseindustrydaily.com
Written by : Defense Industry Daily staff

Turkey & South Korea’s Altay Tank Project

That article has an error in it - the turret isn't a "slightly modified" XK2 turret, it's a completely different turret.

That's the 2nd erroneous article you've posted.

As to the article "telling lies": nobody mentioned "lies" other than you. They are simply errors and oversimplifications. Stop putting words in people's mouths, and take a lesson in critical reading.

 

[Nefer]

The link you used earlier is inaccurate

Is basicly a very nice way to say they are lying.

And I never said that ALTAY is a Copy of XK2(if thats the reason of all the flame), I only said that it has only started as a reference model on which our engineers MODIFIED to suit it to our needs, by changing the alloys it use, technical details and technical layout of tank and etcetere. When I said DESIGN I assumed everyone should have understood THE SHAPE OF TANK !!!!!, specially the hull. Because @madmusti said that the xk2 tank looked more like the altay tank than vice versa, and I just said that it is because we used their design(shape of tank) for our own tank since well we licensed it from them after all didn't we. thats the only thing I said and was referening too.

Turret, cannon, sub-systems, suspension, engine, defense mechanisms, armor, DRIVER POSITION, number of wheels the tank has. I consider those as Technical details and technical layout and not design which for me means the shape, contour of something

I mean yes the Turret shape is different but when you look at the distance from the front of the tank, I see xk2's front body shape in our ALTAY.

edit : And when it comes to what is my accepted stance on our technical detail and layout of the tank, which I would reply, The information pdf what rocketsan provided some time ago

 

[madmusti]

@Nefer

Please stop it , already someone has give any answer´s that you need on 1-2 sides of this Thread.

We had enough "Person´s" here with your Opinion who are now................

 

[revojam]

Is basicly a very nice way to say they are lying.

And I never said that ALTAY is a Copy of XK2(if thats the reason of all the flame), I only said that it has only started as a reference model on which our engineers MODIFIED to suit it to our needs, by changing the alloys it use, technical details and technical layout of tank and etcetere. When I said DESIGN I assumed everyone should have understood THE SHAPE OF TANK !!!!!, specially the hull. Because @madmusti said that the xk2 tank looked more like the altay tank than vice versa, and I just said that it is because we used their design(shape of tank) for our own tank since well we licensed it from them after all didn't we. thats the only thing I said and was referening too.

Turret, cannon, sub-systems, suspension, engine, defense mechanisms, armor, DRIVER POSITION, number of wheels the tank has. I consider those as Technical details and technical layout and not design which for me means the shape, contour of something

I mean yes the Turret shape is different but when you look at the distance from the front of the tank, I see xk2's front body shape in our ALTAY.

edit : And when it comes to what is my accepted stance on our technical detail and layout of the tank, which I would reply, The information pdf what rocketsan provided some time ago

Turret shaped comletly different style
Cannon itself belongs to Germans not Koreans
Sub-Systems made by Asesal(check what Volkan FCS is)
Suspension type is different from K2
By defence mechanics if you mean APS it will be different
For driver positions i dont know

You really don't know anything about this project.

 

[cabatli_53]

Is basicly a very nice way to say they are lying.

And I never said that ALTAY is a Copy of XK2(if thats the reason of all the flame), I only said that it has only started as a reference model on which our engineers MODIFIED to suit it to our needs, by changing the alloys it use, technical details and technical layout of tank and etcetere. When I said DESIGN I assumed everyone should have understood THE SHAPE OF TANK !!!!!, specially the hull. Because @madmusti said that the xk2 tank looked more like the altay tank than vice versa, and I just said that it is because we used their design(shape of tank) for our own tank since well we licensed it from them after all didn't we. thats the only thing I said and was referening too.

Neither Otokar copied, nor modified any f@cking foreign tank. Noone took any design rights or licence from Korea. Put those informations in your mind. It is being told by many Otokar, SSM and TLF officials but You prefer using wrong statements of some sources. TLF requirements are completely different than What S. Korea developed under the name of XK-2. While signiture ceremony was held, All criterias were shaped at our engineers minds who is going to work with Land Forces staff. What Turkey requested from Korea is to receive engineering support on areas needed. It means Some Korean engineers who worked on K-2 project, came to Otokar R&D center and worked together with Otokar engineers. We just paied money as a value of their technical support but Otokar didn't satisfied expertize of Korean engineers who was bring to Turkey because Their key engineers were struggling to solve the problems XK-2 have and so It was told to SSM and Almost all work loads are being handled by Otokar's design/development engineers. Same Otokar engineers who designed Altay, are designed a state of art Tulpar like IFV in a short time. They didn't modify any existing IFV to develop it as well dude. When Altay passed into serial production phase, The all intellectual and property rights of Altay design will be delivered to SSM, Undersecretariat of Turkish Defence Industry. I mean, Licence owner of Altay is not Korea like you claimed, but SSM. You should better close your mouth and learn meaning of Modifying an existing tank like statements instead of trying to find some excuses to your desperate attempts with some false statements taken from sources.

 

[T-123456]

Have you ever asked members How many person care What Madmusti like members are being cared in such serious forums ? He has an itching When It is mentoned the name of Altay since the beggining of the program and He has some itching with every project Koc group develops so Don't bring idiots to support your pathetic claims regarding a serious project.

Neither Otokar copied, nor modified any f@cking foreign tank. Noone took any licence from Korea. Put those informations in your mind. It is being told by many Otokar, SSM and TLF officials but You prefer using wrong statements of some sources. TLF requirements are completely different than What S. Korea developed under the name of XK-2. While signiture ceremony was held, All criterias were shaped at our engineers minds who is going to work with Land Forces staff. What Turkey requested from Korea is to provide engineering support on areas needed. It means Some Korean engineers who worked on K-2 project, came to Otokar R&D center and worked together with Otokar engineers. We just paied money as a value of their technical support but Otokar didn't satisfied expertize of Korean engineers who was bring to Turkey because Their key engineers were struggling to solve the problems XK-2 have and so It was told to SSM and Almost all work loads are being handled by Otokar's design/development engineers. Same Otokar engineers who designed Altay, are designed a state of art Tulpar like IFV in a short time. They didn't modify any existing IFV to develop it as well dude. When Altay passed into serial production phase, The all intellectual and property rights of Altay design will be delivered to SSM, Undersecretariat of Turkish Defence Industry. I mean, Licence owner of Altay is not Korea like you claimed, but SSM. You should better close your mouth and learn meaning of Modifying an existing tank like statements instead of trying to find some excuses to your desperate attempts with some false statements taken from sources.

Bro relax,you are taking it way to serious again.

 

[atatwolf]

This ugly b*tch claudia, she was even in Gezi protests, shes meddling too much in our domestic issues, she can go to Kandil and play the comfort woman for pkk if she likes them so much, would probably even enjoy it.

Just imagine Turks coming to Germany to stir shit. How much drama that would cause in Germany. They would say Erdogan is doing this/giving orders. But apparently if you are white you are allowed more things.

 

[cabatli_53]

Bro relax,you are taking it way to serious again.

Bro, It was being talked 74 pages. It can be watched almost all steps of program thanks to this thread but Already, Some smart Turk members can claim such things. What make me angry is the nationality of those members. If They were Greeks or Armenians or any others, I wouldn't care but At least, Read some pages of your own countries' one of the most important defence project and quote statements of some members to tell your disagreements.

 

[T-123456]

Bro, It was being talked 74 pages. It can be watched almost all steps of program thanks to this thread but Already, Some smart Turk members can claim such things. What make me angry is the nationality of those members. If They were Greeks or Armenians or any others, I wouldn't care but At least, Read some pages of your own countries' one of the most important defence project and quote statements of some members to tell your disagreements.

Many of us told him the same but when you are a Hothead,no advise will help.
He will learn it the hard way.
Dont worry about it.