Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[kartal1]

Mashallah! To bad it didn't go so smooth with the production

 

[HannibalBarca]

Left: Altay Plate - Right: Oman Pars Plate

 

[kartal1]

Mashallah! To bad it didn't go so smooth with the production

Those are said to be "Oman police, ambulance or public affairs vehicle plates in use February of 2016
Oman military vehicle plates in use February of 2016" so most probably its Oman.

 

[cabatli_53]

Roketsan PTZ reactive armours have completed qualification trials. Explosive materials and side blocks of armours are totally domestic.

 

[Hexciter]

An article about armour of Altay is in the following link (It’s published only in Turkish!)
http://savunmasanayist.com/2018/08/25/altay-tankinin-zirhi/
@cabatli_53 @Combat-Master

 

[dBSPL]

@Hexciter , Its completely hypothetical .

The biggest problem of our day is the young people who see themselves as experts after a while in the circles like YouTube and facebook.

 

[Hexciter]

@Hexciter , Its completely hypothetical .

The biggest problem of our day is the young people who see themselves as experts after a while in the circles like YouTube and facebook.

Totally agree with you

The author does not know the difference btw NERA and composite armour!

 

[-------]

In the back you can see M60T with Aselsan PULAT Active Protection System in sand color mounted to the sides.

 

[Yatağanlı]

Guys i have a question. A lot of people are against BMC and rheimental getting the tender, because the tank would not be fully domestic. But aren't most sub components produced by MKEK Roketsan and Aselsan anyway? I mean, BMC is mostly going to do assembly, so it will still be in our own hands.

 

[Agha Sher]

Guys i have a question. A lot of people are against BMC and rheimental getting the tender, because the tank would not be fully domestic. But aren't most sub components produced by MKEK Roketsan and Aselsan anyway? I mean, BMC is mostly going to do assembly, so it will still be in our own hands.

Correct - However, I think the issue is that the Germans cannot be trusted. Rheinmetall might be allowed to work with the Turks at the moment, but the political climate might quickly change. If Germany becomes hostile towards Turkey (again!) they will most probably block Rheinmetall's participation in the project leading to a disruption (that may last several years) in the production/assembling of Altay.

 

[Jackal131]

In the back you can see M60T with Aselsan PULAT Active Protection System in sand color mounted to the sides.

I still have my worries about PULAT. First off we still dont have any certainty whether it is a licensed copy of the Zaslon or Zaslon-L - which makes a big difference in redundant back up capabilities - Do you know which one it is ?.

And also the munitions detonate incredibly close to the vehicle - our vehicles are fitted with sensitive optics and also remote weapon stations that are vulnerable to the charges as they send shrapnel in all directions including back towards the vehicle itself. Everybody understands that all APS are dangerous for infantry but some, like the PULAT / Zaslon are far worse. The system makes up for the lack of precision and engagement distance by completely going overkill on the amount of explosives and fragments in each charge.

I really do hope it is a short term solution until AKKOR is developed - I worry that the urgency and support for AKKOR development will be overshadowed by the PULAT.

AKKOR is completely superior on paper - but its development is clearly a struggle, I do trust Aselsan but I worry AKKOR developement will lose resources and manpower towards modifying PULAT if they choose to do so.

 

[Georg]

Correct - However, I think the issue is that the Germans cannot be trusted. Rheinmetall might be allowed to work with the Turks at the moment, but the political climate might quickly change. If Germany becomes hostile towards Turkey (again!) they will most probably block Rheinmetall's participation in the project leading to a disruption (that may last several years) in the production/assembling of Altay.

the one not to be trust worthy is Turkey... Germany has strict open rules ..everyone can read them befor choosing a german company for weapon delivery... if you use the weapons against the rules you have agreed on befor purchasing them from Germany it is YOU not Germany who is not trust worthy...
If you buy a german weapon like a tank or a tank gun and sign a agreement that you will never use them against civilians or in internal conflicts you have a problem if you use them ignoring your contract...

That behaivor is typical for turkey today...the reason why no one in the world currently see turkey as a trust worthy partner

 

[Jackal131]

Guys i have a question. A lot of people are against BMC and rheimental getting the tender, because the tank would not be fully domestic. But aren't most sub components produced by MKEK Roketsan and Aselsan anyway? I mean, BMC is mostly going to do assembly, so it will still be in our own hands.

I dont know what is certain at the moment - we all are privy to the same information. But out of all our projects, this one has broken my heart the most in terms of political interference. Completely derailing what was going to be one of the deadliest tanks in modern times. If our decision making bodies should have taken anything away form the past few years its that the a 50 year old tank with add on armor saved more lives that the Leopard 2 did.

There is nothing wrong with looking for foreign assistance. Every country has done it at some stage - Like the US when it was developing the Abrams regarding armor and gun, or the Russians with the T90 regarding optics. There is no shame in trying to create a machine to be as effective as possible. But when I heard it was Germany being invited I honestly felt sick. There isn't a single country in Europe that wants to see this project and our nation fail as much as they do. And the very next phase of anti tank weapons and shells they make will be specifically set the defeat Altays armor - and that's exactly what they will advertise its capable of - before they sell it to our potential adversaries.

the one not to be trust worthy is Turkey... Germany has strict open rules ..everyone can read them befor choosing a german company for weapon delivery... if you use the weapons against the rules you have agreed on befor purchasing them from Germany it is YOU not Germany who is not trust worthy...
If you buy a german weapon like a tank or a tank gun and sign a agreement that you will never use them against civilians or in internal conflicts you have a problem if you use them ignoring your contract...

That behaivor is typical for turkey today...the reason why no one in the world currently see turkey as a trust worthy partner

So when French police or SF use a G36 or a HK416 to shoot and kill a terrorist in Paris they should no longer be allowed to purchase German systems correct, since by technical terms they are shooting civilians ? Please get out of here with your hypocrisy. Turkey has been using German weapons, artillery munitions and tanks both internally and externally for over 40 years - it is only with recent political fallout that you started acting like the agreements on use mattered.

Get real - agreements on the use of military equipment dont matter / they never have - those agreements are just on paper to protect the seller (ie Germany) from any accountability that is all .

You need to stop hugging trees bud.

 

[Timur]

I dont know what is certain at the moment - we all are privy to the same information. But out of all our projects, this one has broken my heart the most in terms of political interference. Completely derailing what was going to be one of the deadliest tanks in modern times. If our decision making bodies should have taken anything away form the past few years its that the a 50 year old tank with add on armor saved more lives that the Leopard 2 did.

There is nothing wrong with looking for foreign assistance. Every country has done it at some stage - Like the US when it was developing the Abrams regarding armor and gun, or the Russians with the T90 regarding optics. There is no shame in trying to create a machine to be as effective as possible. But when I heard it was Germany being invited I honestly felt sick. There isn't a single country in Europe that wants to see this project and our nation fail as much as they do. And the very next phase of anti tank weapons and shells they make will be specifically set the defeat Altays armor - and that's exactly what they will advertise its capable of - before they sell it to our potential adversaries.



So when French police or SF use a G36 or a HK416 to shoot and kill a terrorist in Paris they should no longer be allowed to purchase German systems correct, since by technical terms they are shooting civilians ? Please get out of here with your hypocrisy. Turkey has been using German weapons, artillery munitions and tanks both internally and externally for over 40 years - it is only with recent political fallout that you started acting like the agreements on use mattered.

Get real - agreements on the use of military equipment dont matter / they never have - those agreements are just on paper to protect the seller (ie Germany) from any accountability that is all .

You need to stop hugging trees bud.

no need for talks with ppl wo wont understand.. they do things because of other reasons they hide the real issue.. actually germany goes backwards just look at chemnitz and the past years

 

[Bismarck]

the one not to be trust worthy is Turkey... Germany has strict open rules ..everyone can read them befor choosing a german company for weapon delivery... if you use the weapons against the rules you have agreed on befor purchasing them from Germany it is YOU not Germany who is not trust worthy...
If you buy a german weapon like a tank or a tank gun and sign a agreement that you will never use them against civilians or in internal conflicts you have a problem if you use them ignoring your contract...

That behaivor is typical for turkey today...the reason why no one in the world currently see turkey as a trust worthy partner

This is not correct. As you know many defense decisions about weapons sales are depend on political decisions and has less to do with open strict rules. We sell weapons to Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and many other countries wich are in military conflict with others and which is forbidden by German laws.

We as a Nato member does not fulfill our responsibility towards our partner Turkey. We expect from Turkey to protect our east flank, but not willing to arm them, due to policutal differences. One of the decision was to canceling the sell of Leopard 2 A6 tanks. As you know, it was the Green Party which were part of past coalition, which threatened the government with a retreat from the coalition. Turkey is, was and will be a spot for our political games in Germany.