Almost 5,000 Bangladeshi garment workers sacked over strikes

[VikingRaider]

We all want better pay and conditions for these workers but it is not possible to do it immediately. It has to be a gradual process that will take many decades to complete.

Okay as long as AL goons will not create anarchy , I have no problem . Sometimes I really feel that we need a long term stable govt. But I will comment on development after 4 years as I said few days ago . If they can control BCL terrorism , then I am not against them, they can rule for decades , at least as long as Hasina alive I hope she can control BCL and can do better rule than others . But I want to suggest them to speak less and work more !

 

[Nilgiri]

I said tax anything more than 12000 Taka a month at 10%.
Hardly any garment workers would be affected at all.
This would bring in a few billion dollars a year to improve health and education that would directly benefit these workers and their families.
We all want better pay and conditions for these workers but it is not possible to do it immediately. It has to be a gradual process that will take many decades to complete.

Can you explain this to me?:

“When our government came to power in 2008, the average wage of a garment worker was 1,600 taka ($19).

19 bucks a month is less than a dollar a day. The math seems waaay off.

 

[UKBengali]

Can you explain this to me?:

Which bit do you want explained?

 

[Nilgiri]

Which bit do you want explained?

19 bucks a month?

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=BD

GDP per capita (forget about worker output which would be lot higher) was 616 USD in 2008.

That works out to 50 or so per month.

How does a frontline exporting industry pay out 19 (on average too as BAL says, rather than starting) which is like 40% of the average GDP per capita? (and probably less than 20% of per capita worker output)?

Doesn't something seem way off here?

@GeraltofRivia

Okay as long as AL goons will not create anarchy , I have no problem . Sometimes I really feel that we need a long term stable govt. But I will comment on development after 4 years as I said few days ago . If they can control BCL terrorism , then I am not against them, they can rule for decades , at least as long as Hasina alive I hope she can control BCL and can do better rule than others . But I want to suggest them to speak less and work more !

Yes especially if they are saying 19 bucks a month was the average RMG wage in 2008. Like where is this number even coming from?

 

[VikingRaider]

19 bucks a month?

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=BD

GDP per capita (forget about worker output which would be lot higher) was 616 USD in 2008.

That works out to 50 or so per month.

How does a frontline exporting industry pay out 19 (on average too as BAL says, rather than starting) which is like 40% of the average GDP per capita? (and probably less than 20% of per capita worker output)?

Doesn't something seem way off here?

@GeraltofRivia



Yes especially if they are saying 19 bucks a month was the average RMG wage in 2008. Like where is this number even coming from?

It was 24 dollars actually , as in 2008 1 dollar was more or less 67 bdt.

However yes agree, this can't be any comparison.

Previous regime did worst thing and that's why AL is in power for such a long time. So such talkative nature of AL folks will not give them any good ground.
Rather they must focus on their work, so that they don't have to face another uprising like 1990.

 

[Nilgiri]

It was 24 dollars actually , as in 2008 1 dollar was more or less 67 bdt.

However yes agree, this can't be any comparison.

Previous regime did worst thing and that's why AL is in power for such a long time. So such talkative nature of AL folks will not give them any good ground.
Rather they must focus on their work, so that they don't have to face another uprising like 1990.

But I have studied wages in industries in developing countries compared to GDP per capita. The organised industry wage has to be higher than the (esp nominal) GDP per capita (its what pulls up the average, compared to basic agri/rural/unorganised wages which pull down the average due to that stuff not even being exported etc and figure more in PPP compared to nominal)...something is messed up in these numbers so thats why I want to know where they come from originally.

 

[GeraltofRivia]

19 bucks a month?

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=BD

GDP per capita (forget about worker output which would be lot higher) was 616 USD in 2008.

That works out to 50 or so per month.

How does a frontline exporting industry pay out 19 (on average too as BAL says, rather than starting) which is like 40% of the average GDP per capita? (and probably less than 20% of per capita worker output)?

Doesn't something seem way off here?

@GeraltofRivia



Yes especially if they are saying 19 bucks a month was the average RMG wage in 2008. Like where is this number even coming from?

19 USD per month avg salary sounds too off relative to GDP per capital in 2008. The current average salary ($90 per month I saw somewhere? if I am not wrong) would be about right with an average GDP per capital of $1500 in Bangladesh. The average salary and GDP per capital are two different things but generally their values are sort of close for most of countries.

I guess there are certain dynamics in the Bangladeshi local labor market that caused the temporary suppression of wage in the early days. It appears average salary has slowly become more in line within average GDP.

One last thing is that the 7% of annual inflation is simply brutal and can easily wipe out any real wage growth. What are the driver of such high inflation?

 

[VikingRaider]

19 USD per month avg salary sounds too off relative to GDP per capital in 2008. The current average salary ($90 per month I saw somewhere? if I am not wrong) would be about right with an average GDP per capital of $1500 in Bangladesh. The average salary and GDP per capital are two different things but generally their values are sort of close for most of countries.

I guess there are certain dynamics in the Bangladeshi local labor market that caused the temporary suppression of wage in the early days. It appears average salary has slowly become more in line within average GDP.

One last thing is that the 7% of annual inflation is simply brutal and can easily wipe out any real wage growth. What are the driver of such high inflation?

The workers deserve the right for asking better wage and should not be sacked for this.

It is not average salary , but it's minimum for a garments worker. And probably there is no minimum wage in Bangladesh.

House maids and others work even in lower salary in various houses and hostels.

But one good thing is their salary was too low before this AL govt came. But now they have some options to work in other various govt places ( out side dhaka) other than garments too, so demand of house maids are increasing. Like before 2008 even in most of areas housemaid used to work for stale foods and around 5/7 dollars monthly from 2/3 houses ( no minimum wage ,as much as house they can get, for flood cleaning, dish washing, cloth washing aka odd jobs) , total earn would lower than garments workers.


But as I said now for various projects they are working as day labours so getting more money.
And that's the reason house owners ( specially middle class) are paying them considerably more money, still totally around 50/60 dollars in a month from 2 houses, with 1/2 time foods from either or both Houses .

However here is a gray area, if govt impose minimum wage here, they all will lost those odd jobs, because middle class peoples are not capable of paying more than that, and not all maids can work as labour as it's hard work .

Same goes for many salesman of various shops, if minimum wage impose, shop owner will do the works by themselves so the salesman will lost job.

Those salesman are mostly doing job for short times, and some do for long times .

So that's the reason it's too early to impose any minimum wages for every sectors because those jobs aren't considered as fixed jobs at all , but wiling to do services by negotiation.

 

[UKBengali]

19 USD per month avg salary sounds too off relative to GDP per capital in 2008. The current average salary ($90 per month I saw somewhere? if I am not wrong) would be about right with an average GDP per capital of $1500 in Bangladesh. The average salary and GDP per capital are two different things but generally their values are sort of close for most of countries.

I guess there are certain dynamics in the Bangladeshi local labor market that caused the temporary suppression of wage in the early days. It appears average salary has slowly become more in line within average GDP.

One last thing is that the 7% of annual inflation is simply brutal and can easily wipe out any real wage growth. What are the driver of such high inflation?

BD average salary is much higher than 90 US dollars a month.
95 US dollars is the minimum for a newly trained garment workers. Those more experienced earn more.
A rickshaw driver pulls in somewhere in the region of 150 dollars a month on average.
Agricultural workers earn 7 dollars a day in the SE of BD.
My guess is that the average wage in BD is around the 150 US dollar mark.

PS - GDP per capita is now around 1800 US dollars.

 

[Nilgiri]

It is not average salary

The 2008 figure BAL is quoting is average salary in RMG though...(they say). Still not known where they got this number from.

But one good thing is their salary was too low before this AL govt came.

That's what BAL is saying....but where is the source data on it (for the 2008 number)?

 

[VikingRaider]

That's what BAL is saying....but where is the source data on it (for the 2008 number)?

Oh ok I see . SO you want the evidence of the claim by AL? The problem is perhaps either such data is not preserved well or its hard to find.

Still I have searched and find something , but not as data table . It's a news and a chart from 2010 . https://www.textiletoday.com.bd/impact-of-wage-hike-on-rmg-industry/

http://blogs.worldbank.org/endpovertyinsouthasia/financing-living-wage-bangladesh’s-garment-industry

Also open this link , it will ask you to download a pdf file .
http://dspace.bracu.ac.bd/bitstream/handle/10361/2087/Labor Unrest in Bangladesh RMG Sector.pdf?sequence=1

read it thoroughly , specially chapter two , 2.3 containing riots in RMG sector , you will see . and it was actually news from 2010 , and I could not find exactly the link before it . Better read the full pdf article . That's all I can provide now , since it was from 2010 so yhou can get comparative idea . But yes it's right that really wages were such low .

RIGHT.

The Riksha fare which was 5 taka in 2008 is now 20 taka. That is 4x increase.
Similarly, the wage was $19 in 2008, and now $96. That is 5x increase.

So the govt is claiming of increasing it five-fold is basically 2x increase considering the inflation.

Minimum wage should be 12000 taka.

Be consistent when you write something . How many poor peoples ride rikshaw ? rather let's compare the food price . lets start with rice .https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/200...h-during-full-harvesting-season-of-boro-paddy .

and from 2008 https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2008/01/18/rice-prices-on-the-rise-again .


What is the rice price now ? Try to be very honest when trying to convince our foreign fellows by 4x faster . use the statistics of daily goods , not rikshaw ride. If you do sop , I will start with the increasing price of cigarette, will people accept this ? You have no food problem so you are mixing rikshaw riding with salary , others will equate it with smoking , and actually it will be very much misleading .
@Skies

 

[Nilgiri]

Oh ok I see . SO you want the evidence of the claim by AL? The problem is perhaps either such data is not preserved well or its hard to find.

Still I have searched and find something , but not as data table . It's a news and a chart from 2010 . https://www.textiletoday.com.bd/impact-of-wage-hike-on-rmg-industry/

http://blogs.worldbank.org/endpovertyinsouthasia/financing-living-wage-bangladesh’s-garment-industry

Also open this link , it will ask you to download a pdf file .
http://dspace.bracu.ac.bd/bitstream/handle/10361/2087/Labor Unrest in Bangladesh RMG Sector.pdf?sequence=1

read it thoroughly , specially chapter two , 2.3 containing riots in RMG sector , you will see . and it was actually news from 2010 , and I could not find exactly the link before it . Better read the full pdf article . That's all I can provide now , since it was from 2010 so yhou can get comparative idea . But yes it's right that really wages were such low .


Be consistent when you write something . How many poor peoples ride rikshaw ? rather let's compare the food price . lets stgart with rice .https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/200...h-during-full-harvesting-season-of-boro-paddy .

and from 2008 https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2008/01/18/rice-prices-on-the-rise-again .


What is the rice price now ? Try to be very honest when trying to convince our foreign fellows by 4x faster . use the statistics of daily goods , not rikshaw ride. If you do sop , I will start with the increasing price of cigarette, will you accept this ?
@Skies

Great this is exactly what I asked for, thanks.

It seems the BAL guy today misquoted "average" wage...it was an entry wage (grade VII) back then too:

The minimum wage at the entry level will be raised to Tk 3,000 a month (or about $43) from Tk 1,662.50 ($24) to be effective from November 2010.

I am sure if we do an integral analysis of the total spread (if BBS ever did a sample + analysis like that), we will determine the actual average RMG wage back then and also now...and it will make much more sense with the GDP per capita (and worker output) numbers.

BAL guy quote:

“When our government came to power in 2008, the average wage of a garment worker was 1,600 taka ($19).

Actually, just saw the article already has it:

Turning now to the second question, the key information is the increase in average wage for the industry as a whole taking into account the distribution of the garment work force by grades. Here the grades 1-5 each account for 10 percent, grade 6 accounts for 15 percent, grade 7 accounts for 30 percent and the remaining 5 percent are apprentices. This gives a weighted average wage of about Tk 2409 per month before the increase and Tk 4290 per month after the increase, representing 78.1 percent growth in average nominal wage and 33 percent growth in average real wage.

Doing the calculations, in 2008 the average wage would have been around 35 bucks a month. Thats around 420 a year. Its a better portion of the GDP per capita than the earlier figure obv....but something is still going on structurally like @GeraltofRivia discussed compared to what I have seen of exporting industry wage/GDP per capita. I will have to read some of the other stuff you have posted when I have some time. Thanks again @Atlas

 

[Skies]

What is the rice price now ? Try to be very honest when trying to convince our foreign fellows by 4x faster . use the statistics of daily goods , not rikshaw ride. If you do sop , I will start with the increasing price of cigarette, will people accept this ? You have no food problem so you are mixing rikshaw riding with salary , others will equate it with smoking , and actually it will be very much misleading .
@Skies

It was just an example.

The price of rice alone is not the base to calculate either. If the price of oil or fertilizer or electricity or the ratio of profit of the middlemen increase, the price of rice alone will not reflect the inflation situation either. Also, the riksha pullers are poor, so their demand of fare also formed based on their daily expense adjusted to inflation. It is a chain of impacts.

The better way to relate the monthly expense of the garment workers would be using the inflation rate calculated by using the Consumer Price Index (CPI).

 

[VikingRaider]

The better way to relate the monthly expense of the garment workers would be using the inflation rate calculated by using the Consumer Price Index (CPI).

Exactly , that's why I am saying that it is unwise to compare their salary increase to compare with rikshaw pullers fare, as if the fare of rikshaw pullers increase that does not create burden on those garments workers , as they do not ride in rikshaws.

So rice , dal , vegetables , and other foods specially and then cloths and shelter and treatment are their main needs , not rikshaw riding !

So if you want to compare the prices , you will find that even peoples who are earning good amount of money they also can buy more goods now ( other than beef though as beef is the extreme case , but I wish soon this problem will be solved when we will be producing beef and dependency on India will be reduced ) .

But indeed minimum wage should be 12000 tk at least , no disagreement here . As with 12000 taka it's also hard to live a human life even for a single person in Bangladesh , specially it's almost impossible in Dhaka .

But let's give few years to @UKBengali , if they can increase the minimum wage to 12000 tk ( 2019 ; taka and dollar value ) after few years . They really should get a fair chance and they already got it ( as political field is empty now for them to score ). Now let's wait and see what development they can do for those poor folks !

@Skies

 

[UKBengali]

Exactly , that's why I am saying that it is unwise to compare their salary increase to compare with rikshaw pullers fare, as if the fare of rikshaw pullers increase that does not create burden on those garments workers , as they do not ride in rikshaws.

So rice , dal , vegetables , and other foods specially and then cloths and shelter and treatment are their main needs , not rikshaw riding !

So if you want to compare the prices , you will find that even peoples who are earning good amount of money they also can buy more goods now ( other than beef though as beef is the extreme case , but I wish soon this problem will be solved when we will be producing beef and dependency on India will be reduced ) .

But indeed minimum wage should be 12000 tk at least , no disagreement here . As with 12000 taka it's also hard to live a human life even for a single person in Bangladesh , specially it's almost impossible in Dhaka .

But let's give few years to @UKBengali , if they can increase the minimum wage to 12000 tk ( 2019 ; taka and dollar value ) after few years . They really should get a fair chance and they already got it ( as political field is empty now for them to score ). Now let's wait and see what development they can do for those poor folks !

@Skies

A major challenge of AL government over this term will be to keep inflation in check. Major forecasters predict 5-6% a year average over the next 5 years which is not good enough. BD should aim for under 5% a year average.
As for salaries of garment workers, I would like to see a formula where the 5 yearly increase is scrapped and we move to a system where every year the minimum wage increases by inflation +3%. This should both allow the employers to stay competitive while also giving the workers real increase in living standards every year.