ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.

[Itachi]

I can imagine you wearing a tin hat and playing with your toy soldiers on the table. The real world is much different and ugly. Pakistan must consolidate its own power as the rest of the Muslim world is fragmented. Each Muslim nation will pursue their own self-interests. This naturally occurs in statecraft so you need to get with the picture. There is no unity between Muslims' so allying with neighboring states is a pipedream in the current era.
Salahuddin like Zengi had to use force to crush opposition in their land and elsewhere to consolidate their power in the Muslim world. That can't be applied in the current period without consequences. Only then when the Muslims were strong financially, military and stability did they fight the Crusaders. Tell me is the Muslim world financially stable in particular Pakistan? Do we have stability across the Muslim world? What about our military power? Do most Muslim import weapons from other countries. I don't live in a dream world because pragmatism trumps emotions.

Just like the Muslims before the coming of Salahuddin, you guys are the only ones at fault. If you had elected better leaders since 1947, you wouldn't be in this mess.

Your financial woes are of your own making. And when did finance stop anyone from siding with the truth or speaking up about it??

Where do you see me as calling for Jihad against China?? I'm not the one living in dreamland if you think that I want Pakistan to attack China.

You sound just like Zaid Hamid and guess what nobody takes him seriously.

Many do, if you don't then that doesn't mean "nobody" does.

I have already answered this question above. You can call me whatever you want. I told you before these snide remarks show just how childish you are. Grow a pair of balls and join ETIM.

Going back to the above topic, why would I join ETIM?? You seem to have me sorted as a Jihadist or something already lol

Make sure your own biases don't obscure your judgement.

Spreading awareness in PDF means diddlysquat in the grand scheme of things or is this another one of your delusions.

Then why did China ban PDF citing "anti-China" posts???

What're they afraid of?

If you feel so strongly about this issue then take a trip to China and then show everyone in this forum what the true reality.

I don't have to....this is 2019, soon to be 2020....the world comes to the people while there is the option to travel also but why do that when you can view the world by just looking through the internet?

Sitting in America and making war plans is rather funny and useless.

lolol whose making war plans?? All I'm doing is spreading awareness and bashing pro-Chinese like you....do you see any Chinese here getting so worked up about Xinjiang/Uyghurs??

Many (Chinese) already know what's happening.....their half baked truths and lies have been dismantled by me and others for the couple of past months. They can't come up with new propaganda to show China as being oppressed on this issue so they're quiet.

The Truth will spread until there will be no deniers, just like Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnians & Rohingya before them. Deny all you want, similar people like you denied the Rohingya crisis before accepting it.

I'll be sitting in my corner here on PDF when/if you see the Truth.

 

[Rasengan]

Just like the Muslims before the coming of Salahuddin, you guys are the only ones at fault. If you had elected better leaders since 1947, you wouldn't be in this mess

​

This confirms it typical Zaid Hamid mentality pointing fingers at others while electing yourself as a saint among the crowd. Only an arrogant fool would blame society without including himself within that community. Last time I checked you are a Pakistani which means you are also at fault for not electing better leaders since 1947. You are neglecting the truth about how Salahuddin came to power. The Muslims did not attack the Crusaders for more than 88 years until Zengi and Salahuddin had complete control of the Muslim world. This took decades to achieve with meticulous care in order to not get the Crusaders to turn their attention toward the Muslims. When the Crusaders began fighting among themselves Salahuddin with a well-equipped army took the fight to them (battle of Hattin). Apply the same scenario in the current period and any sane person should be able to see the contrast. Pakistan and in fact any other Muslim country doesn't have the support of the Muslim world under one banner. Everyone has their own self-interest and until every strong Muslim Govt is on the same page then its only a pipe dream to move above your pay grade as a lone wolf.

Your financial woes are of your own making. And when did finance stop anyone from siding with the truth or speaking up about it??

Where do you see me as calling for Jihad against China?? I'm not the one living in dreamland if you think that I want Pakistan to attack China.

Do you also include yourself in this category? The level of arrogance displayed by you is astounding. What truth are you speaking up about? Sitting in America and reading a few articles on a situation thousands of kilometers away doesn't make you an authority on what's happening on the ground. I never said you want Pakistan to attack China this was imagined by you. Instead, I said rather clearly if you feel so strongly about this issue then join ETIM.

Many do, if you don't then that doesn't mean "nobody" does.

Okay, many do, but most don't.

Going back to the above topic, why would I join ETIM?? You seem to have me sorted as a Jihadist or something already lol

Make sure your own biases don't obscure your judgement.

You are repeating the same sentence. Calm down and drink a glass of water maybe then things will become more clear. It was a suggestion rather than a bias but this seems to have rattled you. I thought the character Itachi was supposed to be in control of his emotions

J
Then why did China ban PDF citing "anti-China" posts???

What're they afraid of?

I don't have to....this is 2019, soon to be 2020....the world comes to the people while there is the option to travel also but why do that when you can view the world by just looking through the internet?

China shouldn't have banned PDF. But reading some of the posts on this forum I could see why they thought PDF was anti-China. The Chinese Govt must reform in how they govern people but it's not my place to lecture them when Pakistan has its own problems to deal with. China since Chairman Mao has evolved and I suspect in the next 20 years the leadership will think differently. The future leadership won't be tied down to the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guard in which the present generation has a link. You must be naive to think looking through the internet can give you a view of the world. Most tourists are reluctant to travel to Pakistan but those who eventually take the risk find a much different experience of hospitality and safety. The statement above proves you aren't interested to find out the truth.

lolol whose making war plans?? All I'm doing is spreading awareness and bashing pro-Chinese like you....do you see any Chinese here getting so worked up about Xinjiang/Uyghurs??

.

Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? The only person who is worked up is you. Please continue to bash China it makes no difference because you are irrelevant including me.​

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Traitors to Islam were always dealt with a heavy hand...

I'm sure you have read about it??

So anyone who does not support British Empire created nations like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, etc is a traitor to Islam?

Not really, a lot of Muslims have spoken up against all atrocities and for all Muslims...Turkey for example has spoken for Kashmiris, Palestinians & Uyghurs.....how many have Pakistanis supported and how many haven't??

You can not compare pakistan with turkey. They are light years ahead of Pakistan in every aspect.
They can afford to question China but Pakistan can not. If pak does then your faimly in Pakistan will be eating grass.

Do they need to retreat to Mars before they can act??

No dude, their is a reason behind every historical events in Islam.
The reason why he did not conquer Mecca right away is because he did not have a strong community which would not have stand a chance against a bigger opponent.

One of you has a nuke, another is busy in Syria, another is also busy in Syria (and also supporting the Uyghurs)....multiple others have raised the Uyghur issue....some of us are poodles to West (hint: they have oil)...so what else do you need to act???

Without Chinese support, Pakistan nuclear program would be in dust bin.

Does the Mahdi need to come out and verbally tell everyone that all Muslims are brothers & sisters??

Yes

Right...I bet that's what the Quraysh told Hazrat Muhammad SAW too....you can't do this, you can't do that...and look where we are...

And you cant compare Today's Muslims with Prophet Mohammed PBUH.
Most of today's muslims are of worst kind.

If you had actually read my post, you would have noticed that I only ask for diplomatice pressure on China, not an invasion.

You cant bite the hands that feed you.
Go and protest you want shariah law in US in front of white house.... what what happens to you in 2 minutes.

But of course...how can we do that since we can't bite the hand that's investing in us right??

yep

Little do you know that China needs us more than we need it...

Nope, China maybe needs us 10% while we need china 90%

And that's another topic but I would look towards the SCS and the USN and how CPEC fits in...if you already don't know...

Tell me how much Pakistani ports have benefited China's trillion dollars economy? not even 5 %!

I'm not gonna explain history to you dude...go look it up...it's widely known that Pakistan mended ties between China and the US...US later on invested a lot in China....but oh well, continue living in ignorance...

Since you know alot more about history then tell us who were those bunch of Pakistanis who "mended ties" between china and US.
Thats not history, more like bunch of Pakistanis who highly think of Pakistan came up with stories to satisfy each others egos.

Either way, didn't Hazrat Ibrahim R.A. get thrown in the fire for believing in Allah??

you can not compare Islamic figures with muslims of today.

So what if we get thrown in a worldly fire for what we, as Muslims, believe in??
If your Iman is weak, you don't have to speak up for other Muslims but at least don't belittle our struggle. Whether it be on the internet or physically because the first step to righting any wrongs is spreading awareness.

You are in America and talking about ummah chumma. well thats not going to go well.
listen dude, the situation Muslims are in today WONT be fixed by dudes like you living in US.
And neither can muslims collectively come up together and fix problem on their own.
my personal believe is, what ever is happening today is are prophecy. At the end of times muslims will be divided (british empire created all muslim countries including pakistan).

​

This confirms it typical Zaid Hamid mentality pointing fingers at others while electing yourself as a saint among the crowd. Only an arrogant fool would blame society without including himself within that community. Last time I checked you are a Pakistani which means you are also at fault for not electing better leaders since 1947. You are neglecting the truth about how Salahuddin came to power. The Muslims did not attack the Crusaders for more than 88 years until Zengi and Salahuddin had complete control of the Muslim world. This took decades to achieve with meticulous care in order to not get the Crusaders to turn their attention toward the Muslims. When the Crusaders began fighting among themselves Salahuddin with a well-equipped army took the fight to them (battle of Hattin). Apply the same scenario in the current period and any sane person should be able to see the contrast. Pakistan and in fact any other Muslim country doesn't have the support of the Muslim world under one banner. Everyone has their own self-interest and until every strong Muslim Govt is on the same page then its only a pipe dream to move above your pay grade as a lone wolf.

Do you also include yourself in this category? The level of arrogance displayed by you is astounding. What truth are you speaking up about? Sitting in America and reading a few articles on a situation thousands of kilometers away doesn't make you an authority on what's happening on the ground. I never said you want Pakistan to attack China this was imagined by you. Instead, I said rather clearly if you feel so strongly about this issue then join ETIM.




Okay, many do, but most don't.




You are repeating the same sentence. Calm down and drink a glass of water maybe then things will become more clear. It was a suggestion rather than a bias but this seems to have rattled you. I thought the character Itachi was supposed to be in control of his emotions



China shouldn't have banned PDF. But reading some of the posts on this forum I could see why they thought PDF was anti-China. The Chinese Govt must reform in how they govern people but it's not my place to lecture them when Pakistan has its own problems to deal with. China since Chairman Mao has evolved and I suspect in the next 20 years the leadership will think differently. The future leadership won't be tied down to the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guard in which the present generation has a link. You must be naive to think looking through the internet can give you a view of the world. Most tourists are reluctant to travel to Pakistan but those who eventually take the risk find a much different experience of hospitality and safety. The statement above proves you aren't interested to find out the truth.



Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? The only person who is worked up is you. Please continue to bash China it makes no difference because you are irrelevant including me.​

When i look at his DP only one word comes to my mind. Chutiya. sorry but thats the truth about this ABCD.

 

[Ryan]

Adrian Zenz, a far-right evangelical Christian fundamentalist, helped popularize the claim that China has detained millions of Uyghur Muslims. He also says he’s ‘led by God’ on a ‘mission’ against Beijing

CHINA December 21, 2019
China detaining millions of Uyghurs? Serious problems with claims by US-backed NGO and far-right researcher ‘led by God’ against Beijing
Claims that China has detained millions of Uyghur Muslims are based largely on two studies. A closer look at these papers reveals US government backing, absurdly shoddy methodologies, and a rapture-ready evangelical researcher named Adrian Zenz.
By Ajit Singh and Max Blumenthal

The US House of Representatives passed the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act on December 3, legislation which calls for the Donald Trump administration to impose sanctions against China over allegations that Beijing has detained millions of Muslim-majority Uyghurs in the western region of Xinjiang.

To drum up support for the sanctions bill, Western governments and media outlets have portrayed the People’s Republic as a human rights violator on par with Nazi Germany. Republican Rep. Chris Smith, for instance, denounced the Chinese government for what he called the “mass internment of millions on a scale not seen since the Holocaust,” in “modern-day concentration camps.”

The claim that China has detained millions of ethnic Uyghurs in its Xinjiang region is repeated with increasing frequency, but little scrutiny is ever applied. Yet a closer look at the figure and how it was obtained reveals a serious deficiency in data.

While this extraordinary claim is treated as unassailable in the West, it is, in fact, based on two highly dubious “studies.”

The first, by the US government-backed Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders, formed its estimate by interviewing a grand total of eight people.

The second study relied on flimsy media reports and speculation. It was authored by Adrian Zenz, a far-right fundamentalist Christian who opposes homosexuality and gender equality, supports “scriptural spanking” of children, and believes he is “led by God” on a “mission” against China.

As Washington ratchets up pressure on China, Zenz has been lifted out of obscurity and transformed almost overnight into a go-to pundit on Xinjiang. He has testified before Congress, providing commentary in outlets from the Wall Street Journal to Democracy Now!, and delivering expert quotes in the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists’ recent “China Cables” report. His Twitter bio notes that he is “moving across the Atlantic” from his native Germany.

Before Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal questioned Zenz about his religious “mission,” at a recent event about Xinjiang inside the US Capitol, he had received almost entirely uncritical promotion from Western media.

The Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders, which first popularized the “millions detained” figure, has also been able to operate without a hint of media scrutiny.

Washington-backed NGO claims millions detained after interviewing eight people
The “millions detained” figure was first popularized by a Washington, DC-based NGO that is backed by the US government, the Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders (CHRD).

In a 2018 report submitted to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination – often misrepresented in Western media as a UN-authored report – CHRD “estimate[d] that roughly one million members of ethnic Uyghurs have been sent to ‘re-education’ detention camps and roughly two million have been forced to attend ‘re-education’ programs in Xinjiang.” According to CHRD, this figure was “ased on interviews and limited data.”

While CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals.

Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.”

Applying these estimated rates to the entirety of Xinjiang, CHRD arrived at the figures submitted to the UN claiming that one million ethnic Uyghurs have been detained in “re-education detention camps” and two million more have been “forced to attend day/evening re-education sessions”.

Thanks to questionable sources like the CHRD, the United States government has accused China of “arbitrarily detain[ing] 800,000 to possibly more than two million Uighurs, ethnic Kazakhs, and other Muslims in internment camps designed to erase religious and ethnic identities.”

Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 2018, State Department official Scott Busby stated this this “is the U.S. government assessment, backed by our intelligence community and open source reporting.”

The Chinese government has rejected US allegations, and claims that it has in fact established “vocational education and training centers […] to prevent the breeding and spread of terrorism and religious extremism.” The Chinese Foreign Ministry has stated that “there [are] no so-called ‘re-education camps’ in Xinjiang at all. The vocational education and training centers legally operated in Xinjiang aim to help a small number of people affected by terrorist and extremist ideologies and equip them with skills, so that they can be self-reliant and re-integrate into society.”

In its mounting pressure campaign against China, the US is not only relying on CHRD for data; it is directly funding its operations. As Ben Norton and Ajit Singh previously reported for The Grayzone, CHRD receives significant financial support from Washington’s regime-change arm, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

The NGO has spent years campaigning on behalf of extreme right-wing opposition figures who celebrate colonialism and call for the “Westernization” of China.

‘Leading expert’ on Xinjiang relies on speculation and one questionable media report
The second key source for claims that China has detained millions of Uyghur Muslims is Adrian Zenz. He is a senior fellow in China studies at the far-right Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the US government in 1983.

The Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation is an outgrowth of the National Captive Nations Committee, a group founded by Ukrainian nationalist Lev Dobriansky to lobby against any effort for detente with the Soviet Union. Its co-chairman, Yaroslav Stetsko, was a top leader of the fascist OUN-B militia that fought alongside Nazi Germany during its occupation of Ukraine in World War Two. Together, the two helped found the World Anti-Communist League that was described by journalist Joe Conason as “the organizational haven for neo-Nazis, fascists, and anti-Semitic extremists from two dozen countries.”


Moss Robeson@mossrobeson__
· Jul 18, 2019

Today in 1983, Vice President George Bush and UN Ambassador Jeanne Kirkpatrick keynoted an observance of the 25th annual Captive Nations Week in Washington DC attended by Yaroslav Stetsko, a war criminal and Nazi collaborator who became leader of the OUN-B in 1968.



Moss Robeson@mossrobeson__

Lev Dobriansky, pictured below with Eisenhower & Reagan, invented Captive Nations Week in 1959, and got Yaroslav Stetsko his first visa to the United States in 1958 against the wishes of the CIA & the State Department. Reagan appointed Dobriansky to be Ambassador to the Bahamas.



14
7:10 PM - Jul 18, 2019
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Today, Dobriansky’s daughter, Paula, sits on the board of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. A former Reagan and George HW Bush official and signatory of the original Project for a New American Century document, Paula Dobriansky has become a fixture in neoconservative circles on Capitol Hill.

From its office in Washington, the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation agitates for regime change from Venezuela to the periphery of China, advancing the “double genocide” theory that rewrites the history of the Holocaust and posits communism as a deadly evil on par with Hitlerian fascism.

Zenz’s politicized research on Xinjiang and Tibet has proven one of this right-wing group’s most effective weapons.

In September of 2018, Zenz wrote an article published in the Central Asian Survey journal concluding that “Xinjiang’s total re-education internment figure may be estimated at just over one million.” (A condensed version of the article was initially published by the Jamestown Foundation, a neoconservative think tank founded during the height of the Cold War by Reagan administration personnel with the support of then-CIA Director William J. Casey).

Like the CHRD, Zenz arrived at his estimate “over 1 million” in a dubious manner. He based it on a single report by Istiqlal TV, a Uyghur exile media organization based in Turkey, which was republished by Newsweek Japan. Far from an impartial journalistic organization, Istiqlal TV advances the separatist cause while playing host to an assortment of extremist figures.

One such character who often appears on Istiqlal TV is Abdulkadir Yapuquan, a reported leader of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), a separatist group that aims to establish an independent homeland in Xinjiang called East Turkestan.

ETIM has been designated as a terrorist organization with ties to al-Qaeda by the US, European Union, and UN Security Council’s Al-Qaida Sanctions Committee. The Associated Press has reported that since “2013, thousands of Uighurs… have traveled to Syria to train with the Uighur militant group Turkistan Islamic Party and fight alongside al-Qaida,” with “several hundred join[ing] the Islamic State.”

The Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP) has been among the most recalcitrant forces operating in the Al Qaeda-controlled Idlib province, rejecting all ceasefire efforts while indoctrinating children into militancy. TIP leadership has called on foreign Muslims to wage jihad in Syria, publishing an online recruitment video in 2018 that celebrated the 9/11 attacks as holy retaliation against a decadent United States awash in homosexuality and sin.

Children of the Turkistan Islamic Party in Idlib, Syria
According to the Los Angeles Times, Yapuquan is “a regular guest on Istiqlal TV… where his interviews often extended into hours-long emotional tirades against China.”

Turkish journalist Abdullah Bozkurt reported that Istiqlal TV has also hosted fanatical anti-Semites like Nureddin Yıldız, who in an interview on the network, “called for armed jihad not only in China’s autonomous Xinjiang region but all over the world and described China as a nation of savages, worse than the Jews.”


Abdullah Bozkurt@abdbozkurt
https://twitter.com/abdbozkurt/status/879444488313294849

#Turkey pres. #Erdogan's family cleric Nureddin Yıldız talks to Uyghur Istiqlal TV, describes #China as nation of savages, worse than Jews.




49
4:01 PM - Jun 26, 2017
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Abdullah Bozkurt@abdbozkurt
· Jun 26, 2017

Replying to @abdbozkurt
Nureddin Yıldız is linked to Jihadist groups in #Syria, inspired the assassin of #Russia ambassador in Turkey, protected by #Erdogan.


Abdullah Bozkurt@abdbozkurt

Nureddin Yıldız, #Erdogan's family Imam, talks to #Uyghur TV, urges Uyghurs to do Jihad not only against #China but also Jews & others.




28
4:12 PM - Jun 26, 2017
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The Istiqlal TV report relied on by Zenz published an unverified table of “re-education detainee figures” allegedly “leaked” by Chinese authorities, totaling 892,000 individuals in 68 Xinjiang counties as of Spring 2018.

Zenz pads this data by citing reports from Radio Free Asia, a US-funded news agency created by the CIA during the Cold War to propagandize against China. (The Uyghur Human Rights Act recently passed by Congress mandates the US Agency for Global Media – the governmental parent of Radio Free Asia – to report on Xinjiang, including “assessments of Chinese propaganda strategies.”)

With his cobbling of questionable sources, Zenz extrapolates an extremely broad estimate “at anywhere between several hundred thousand and just over one million.”

While admitting that “there is no certainty” to his estimate, he has concluded that it is nevertheless “reasonable to speculate.” He attempted to evade personal responsibility for the figure’s questionable reliability, however, by stating “[t]he accuracy of this estimate is of course predicated on the supposed validity of the stated sources.”

As time goes on, Zenz continues to inflate his speculative estimate of Uyghur detainees. Speaking at an event organized by the US mission in Geneva in March 2019, Zenz stated, “Although it is speculative it seems appropriate to estimate that up to 1.5 million ethnic minorities [have been detained by China in Xinjiang].” Zenz bumped up his estimate again in a November 2019 interview with Radio Free Asia, claiming China was detaining 1.8 million people.

In an interview with Der Spiegel, Zenz claimed that China has effectively outlawed the practice of Islam in Xinjiang. “Anyone in Xinjiang who engages in any type of religious practice, anyone who even has a single Koran verse saved on their mobile phone, will be subjected to a brutal process of reeducation without trial,” he maintained.

These incendiary claims have vaulted Zenz to the status of international “expert” on Xinjiang, earned him invites to testify before US Congress and Canadian Parliament, and to deliver commentary in major US media outlets including The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, and Democracy Now!

Zenz has also been featured by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) as the leading authority legitimizing their recent “China Cables” investigation. The ICIJ report asserts that “[l]inguists, document and Xinjiang experts, including Zenz, who reviewed the documents have expressed confidence in their authenticity.”

Given Zenz’s habit of speculation and the questionable reliability of the lone Istiqlal TV media report he relies on for his estimates, it is troubling that Western governments and media have accepted and promoted his claims without a trace of skepticism.

A closer look at Zenz’s own biases should magnify these concerns, as he is a full-blown evangelical End Timer who appears to be believe that God has sent him on a holy crusade against the People’s Republic of China.

Fundamentalist Christian ‘led by God’ in mission against China, homosexuality, and gender equality
A born-again Christian who claims to preach at his local church, Adrian Zenz is a lecturer at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible [to be] the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”

Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”

Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.

Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.

Zenz predicted that the future fall of capitalism will bring to power the Antichrist within a “few decades.” He identified the force that “will usher the Antichrist into power” as “the economic and financial fall of ‘Babylon,’ with ‘Babylon’ symbolically representing the world’s global economic system (capitalism).”

“Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation,” by Adrian Zenz and Marlon L. Sias

" data-medium-file="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...rian-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?fit=300,219&ssl=1" data-large-file="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...rian-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?fit=845,618&ssl=1" class="size-full wp-image-18189" src="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...n-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=845,618&ssl=1" alt="Worthy to Escape Adrian Zenz Uyghurs China" width="550" height="402" srcset="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...pe-Adrian-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?w=1860&ssl=1 1860w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...n-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=300,219&ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=1024,749&ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...n-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=768,562&ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=1536,1123&ssl=1 1536w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...n-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=150,110&ssl=1 150w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=1200,877&ssl=1 1200w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...pe-Adrian-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?w=1690&ssl=1 1690w" sizes="(max-width: 845px) 100vw, 845px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
“Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation,” by Adrian Zenz and Marlon L. Sias
Along with the fall of capitalism, Zenz also views “postmodern relativism and tolerance thinking” and their apparent promotion of homosexuality, gender equality, and non-violent parenting to be threats to Christianity and “[t]he deceptive, leopard-like power behind the Antichrist.”

“It is very likely that the global persecution of true believers will center on the charge that they promote ‘intolerant views,’” Zenz wrote, “especially related to preaching against homosexuality.”

Zenz argued that “[h]ate crime and anti-discrimination laws will likely play a major role in the suppression of biblical Christianity” and formed part of an “anti-Christian ‘tolerance’ campaign” because they “forbid employers to discriminate based on gender or sexual orientations.”

“The outcome of this process is open rebellion against both God and God-given human authority structures”, Zenz stated, decrying that “[r]ising numbers of countries are banning all forms of physical punishment of children, the primary scriptural method for instilling respect for authority in the young generation and protecting them from rebellious tendencies.” Zenz assures readers that “true scriptural spanking is loving discipline and not violence.”

“Another important God-given authority structure that Satan is attacking through the postmodern spirit is that of gender authority structures”, Zenz continued. “Through notions of gender equality […] the enemy is undermining God’s unique but different role assignments for men and women.”

Given these obscurantist right-wing views, it is not surprising that Zenz’s proclaimed concern for the condition of Muslims in China does not seem to extend to Muslims elsewhere.

A search of Zenz’s Twitter profile returns no tweets concerning the rise of Islamophobia in the West, nor US wars and drone strikes against Muslim-majority countries. The only Tweet by Zenz concerning Muslims that is unrelated to China is a denial that there is a double standard in how violence is judged when committed by white people compared to Muslims.

‘The End Times is a very fascinating topic’
In his December 10, 2019 testimony to the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Adrian Zenz took a victory lap of sorts for Congress’ passage of the Uyghur Human Rights Act the week before, which placed new sanctions on the Chinese government. Citing the bill’s success, he called for opening a new front against China with a US investigation into “involuntary labor in relation to Xinjiang.”

Adrian Zenz Congress Uyghurs China

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Adrian Zenz testifying before Congress on December 10, 2019
That same day, Zenz also appeared on a panel dedicated to Xinjiang that was hosted by the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation in the US Capitol Visitor Center.

On hand were Republican heavyweights like Sam Brownback, the ferociously anti-LGBT, anti-abortion former governor of Kansas and current US ambassador-at-large for religious freedom, as well as top staffers of Sen. Marco Rubio, the sponsor of virtually every China sanctions bill to be rubber-stamped by Congress in recent weeks.

Sam Brownback, a right-wing fundamentalist former senator, at the Victims of Communism panel on Xinjiang. (Zenz is second to his right).
During a question-and-answer session, The Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal asked Zenz about his fundamentalist religious views and far-right politics.

Zenz did not distance himself from his past statements denouncing gender equality and “tolerance thinking,” or his advocacy for the “scriptural spanking” of children. Instead, he asserted that there was no inconsistency between those views and the quality of his research on China’s Xinjiang region.

“I do have a diverse background and I have personal connections which I do not believe are inconsistent with my research,” Zenz responded to Blumenthal. “I do not support China’s authoritarian methods in any way, and I do believe there’s a God who is bringing judgment in different forms. The End Times is a very fascinating topic, a very complex topic, and I think, very relevant. And I think it’s good to live aware of that.”


Max Blumenthal

✔@MaxBlumenthal
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1208837915687706624

Adrian Zenz is considered an expert in DC. His research influenced the Uyghur Human Rights Act that sanctioned China.

But he’s also a Rapture-ready evangelical who says he’s “led by God” against Beijing.

I challenged him on Capitol Hill.

More here: https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/ …




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Moments later, a visibly upset young man rose from his seat to “condemn the tankie Max Blumenthal.” Unleashing a torrent of insults at Blumenthal, he made no attempt to refute the journalist’s line of questioning.

The rigorously enforced conviction on display in the politically hermetic chambers of the US Capitol also encompasses the whole of Western media, where even purportedly progressive outlets have provided Zenz with an uncritical platform.

From Washington’s halls of power to major newsrooms, few are willing to let inconvenient facts get in the way of a new, undeniably faith-based Cold War crusade.

Ajit Singh
Ajit Singh is a Canada-based writer and lawyer. He tweets at @ajitxsingh.


https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/...ns-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

 

[Rasengan]

When i look at his DP only one word comes to my mind. Chutiya. sorry but thats the truth about this ABCD.

"You can't build a great building on a weak foundation. You must have a solid foundation if you're going to have a strong superstructure." Unfortunately, the Muslim world is divided and Pakistan as a lone wolf with a weak foundation would be ripped apart if we followed his logic. Pakistan is changing we must have consistent growth without treading on the toes of other superpowers. I have previously tried to explain this to him but he pulls out the secular liberal card.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

"You can't build a great building on a weak foundation. You must have a solid foundation if you're going to have a strong superstructure." Unfortunately, the Muslim world is divided and Pakistan as a lone wolf with a weak foundation would be ripped apart if we followed his logic. Pakistan is changing we must have consistent growth without treading on the toes of other superpowers. I have previously tried to explain this to him but he pulls out the secular liberal card.

i just know why i bother replying to him. he just goes around in circle with his nonsense.

 

[Itachi]

This confirms it typical Zaid Hamid mentality pointing fingers at others while electing yourself as a saint among the crowd. Only an arrogant fool would blame society without including himself within that community. Last time I checked you are a Pakistani which means you are also at fault for not electing better leaders since 1947. You are neglecting the truth about how Salahuddin came to power. The Muslims did not attack the Crusaders for more than 88 years until Zengi and Salahuddin had complete control of the Muslim world. This took decades to achieve with meticulous care in order to not get the Crusaders to turn their attention toward the Muslims. When the Crusaders began fighting among themselves Salahuddin with a well-equipped army took the fight to them (battle of Hattin). Apply the same scenario in the current period and any sane person should be able to see the contrast. Pakistan and in fact any other Muslim country doesn't have the support of the Muslim world under one banner. Everyone has their own self-interest and until every strong Muslim Govt is on the same page then its only a pipe dream to move above your pay grade as a lone wolf.

Why would I include myself in a society of which I'm not a part of?? I wasn't even born when Pakistanis elected & supported buffon's as leaders. If I was in Pakistan during the recent election, I would have voted for IK.

And I am not electing myself as a saint, your own biases against me are showing....where did I say that??

I'll repeat again, as I have, Pakistan's predicaments are of its own makings. It elected & supported wrong leaders which then either looted the country or stopped it from developing. Now that China has come to help you get up, you guys consider China as a god, forgetting that's a mutual economic relationship with a mix of military help.

If Pakistan shows the same backbone as Turkey, many Muslim countries will start siding with it.

Do you also include yourself in this category? The level of arrogance displayed by you is astounding. What truth are you speaking up about? Sitting in America and reading a few articles on a situation thousands of kilometers away doesn't make you an authority on what's happening on the ground. I never said you want Pakistan to attack China this was imagined by you. Instead, I said rather clearly if you feel so strongly about this issue then join ETIM.

I do, I'm not a hypocrite. I stand with my words, spoken or written.

I have read more than just "a few articles" lol....and whether I sit on a different continent or a couple of galaxies away shouldn't matter. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere" (Martin Luther King Jr).

Again, why would I join ETIM??? Why're you hellbent on me becoming a Jihadist??

All I'm doing is spreading awareness on PDF whereas people like you & Myth come here and start arguing and making excuses for China whereas Chinese don't even do that!!

Even the Chinese acknowledge the Oppression being done to the Uyghurs!

Okay, many do, but most don't.

You'll see more supporters of his work than otherwise. If you find a couple of voices bashing him doesn't mean the majority don't side with him.

You are repeating the same sentence. Calm down and drink a glass of water maybe then things will become more clear. It was a suggestion rather than a bias but this seems to have rattled you. I thought the character Itachi was supposed to be in control of his emotions

Whereas I can control my emotion, whether you believe me to be in control or not.....Where does "Rasengan" come from??

Isn't it a Jutsu from Naruto used to hurt others?

At least my character put the country (village in case of Itachi) before his own priorities.

China shouldn't have banned PDF. But reading some of the posts on this forum I could see why they thought PDF was anti-China. The Chinese Govt must reform in how they govern people but it's not my place to lecture them when Pakistan has its own problems to deal with. China since Chairman Mao has evolved and I suspect in the next 20 years the leadership will think differently. The future leadership won't be tied down to the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guard in which the present generation has a link. You must be naive to think looking through the internet can give you a view of the world. Most tourists are reluctant to travel to Pakistan but those who eventually take the risk find a much different experience of hospitality and safety. The statement above proves you aren't interested to find out the truth.

The day China moves itself from it's horrific past and moves on a different scale is when it'll set itself right. Until then, it'll continue subjugating it's minorities & others.

Mao himself killed millions, tens of millions to be exact. No one will forget that. The rise of China has never been peaceful, it has been built on the blood of many innocents.

Similarly, current Chinese policies are no different from its past....news has come out that China is moving onto making Islam more "socialist"....the thread has been closed but the below is what a Chinese had to say in response to a well known Pakistani member who parrots the same pro-China lines as yours.

Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? The only person who is worked up is you. Please continue to bash China it makes no difference because you are irrelevant including me.

If it's irrelevant to you then why do you pop up in all the threads concerning Uyghurs?? What's your agenda?? since you clearly know what my agenda is.

So anyone who does not support British Empire created nations like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, etc is a traitor to Islam?

The British didn't create any nations. Read an actual history book.

Nations win their independence! Who in their right mind would let go of their sovereign claims??

You can not compare pakistan with turkey. They are light years ahead of Pakistan in every aspect.
They can afford to question China but Pakistan can not. If pak does then your faimly in Pakistan will be eating grass.

Do you know what "light years" stand for?? If they're "light years" ahead of Pakistan...why're they still living on planet Earth??

They can afford to question China but Pakistan can not. If pak does then your faimly in Pakistan will be eating grass.

Your misgivings are quite astounding....same thing was said when Pakistan wanted to build nukes....did anyone eat grass then or/& now??

Without Chinese support, Pakistan nuclear program would be in dust bin.

Then let me show you another mirror...

Without Pakistani support, China would be isolated like it was in the global economy. It would not be able to have OBOR or CPEC which will be the juglar veins to its economy from now on.

Without CPEC/OBOR, the USN (US Navy) can easily blockade Chinese imports in the SCS (South China Sea)....which is why China is investing so heavily into Pakistan because guess what.....China needs Pakistan as much, if not more, as Pakistan needs China!

But if you want to act like a good slave like Pakistan has done to the British Empire & the US....continue on!

When i look at his DP only one word comes to my mind. Chutiya. sorry but thats the truth about this ABCD.

I have answered most of your counter arguments...I would have continued on but this clearly shows that in the end, you're showing your upbringing.

Insults, slurs & slandering...what else can be expected from certain Pakistanis huh?

 

[Rasengan]

Why would I include myself in a society of which I'm not a part of?? I wasn't even born when Pakistanis elected & supported buffon's as leaders. If I was in Pakistan during the recent election, I would have voted for IK.

And I am not electing myself as a saint, your own biases against me are showing....where did I say that??

I'll repeat again, as I have, Pakistan's predicaments are of its own makings. It elected & supported wrong leaders which then either looted the country or stopped it from developing. Now that China has come to help you get up, you guys consider China as a god, forgetting that's a mutual economic relationship with a mix of military help.

If Pakistan shows the same backbone as Turkey, many Muslim countries will start siding with it.

Arrogance is the camouflage for insecurity and you have this in abundance when you have no answer. Both Zaid Hamid and you are two peas in the same pod. Read your previous post carefully below.

Just like the Muslims before the coming of Salahuddin, you guys are the only ones at fault. If you had elected better leaders since 1947, you wouldn't be in this mess.

Unless you are a mind reader what evidence do you have I was born at a time when Pakistanis elected and supported corrupt leaders? Furthermore, what proof do you have I was even born in Pakistan? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but nothing is more dangerous than ignorance. Before writing nonsense at least have the facts in front of you. Otherwise, you'll be firing blanks in a debate making you look like a fool.

Who are you to judge other Pakistanis? Only a retard would point fingers at others while portraying himself as a saint. If you have a problem with the past then take this issue to your own forefathers instead of preaching to others. When did I advocate China was God? @waz I don't normally report a post but it's outrageous what he accuses other members of.

What backbone does Turkey have? The Turkish economy is falling apart, unemployment is rising and the image of Erdogan has deteriorated domestically and internationally. The last time Erdogan had a meeting with Xi he struck a positive note on the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. The recent conference in Kuala Lumpur showed he didn't even mention the Uyghurs once even though the event was focused on the national security of the Muslim world. One member from the audience asked the question on the treatment of Uyghurs in China. What do you think was the response of Mahathir, Erdogan, and Rouhani? All three of them ignored the question.

I do, I'm not a hypocrite. I stand with my words, spoken or written.

I have read more than just "a few articles" lol....and whether I sit on a different continent or a couple of galaxies away shouldn't matter. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere" (Martin Luther King Jr).

Again, why would I join ETIM??? Why're you hellbent on me becoming a Jihadist??

All I'm doing is spreading awareness on PDF whereas people like you & Myth come here and start arguing and making excuses for China whereas Chinese don't even do that!!

Even the Chinese acknowledge the Oppression being done to the Uyghurs!

You have read articles while I have been inside the country multiple times and spoken to hundreds of Uyghurs. But who am I to stop you in your pursuit of becoming an internet scholar. You remind me of a puppy who seeks constant attention. The last time I spoke on this subject was 6 months ago so spare me your bullshit. Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? If you want to spread awareness then take your sermons to someone else.

You'll see more supporters of his work than otherwise. If you find a couple of voices bashing him doesn't mean the majority don't side with him.

Keep believing such nonsense

Whereas I can control my emotion, whether you believe me to be in control or not.....Where does "Rasengan" come from??

Isn't it a Jutsu from Naruto used to hurt others?

At least my character put the country (village in case of Itachi) before his own priorities.

Rasengan means a spiral sphere. When plotted on a chart in a fractal way it looks like a Fibonacci Arc a principle that I apply in my work. I also won't deny I was a fan of the show but the first reason was more important than the second.

Remind me again what Itachi did in the show? He killed the entire Uchiha clan because it threatened the national interests of the village. The Uchiha coup would have led to the 4th ninja war and Konoha couldn't afford to fight against the other big nations. The same principle applies to Pakistan.

The Chinese member from Hong Kong is against the mainland Govt. I have debated the issue of the protest movement a dozen times with him.

 

[Itachi]

Arrogance is the camouflage for insecurity and you have this in abundance when you have no answer. Both Zaid Hamid and you are two peas in the same pod. Read your previous post carefully below.

And going back to personal insults isn't a bad habit?

Unless you are a mind reader what evidence do you have I was born at a time when Pakistanis elected and supported corrupt leaders? Furthermore, what proof do you have I was even born in Pakistan? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but nothing is more dangerous than ignorance. Before writing nonsense at least have the facts in front of you. Otherwise, you'll be firing blanks in a debate making you look like a fool.

Who are you to judge other Pakistanis? Only a retard would point fingers at others while portraying himself as a saint. If you have a problem with the past then take this issue to your own forefathers instead of preaching to others. When did I advocate China was God? @waz I don't normally report a post but it's outrageous what he accuses other members of.

Again, all you have to show is personal insults...

Your English comprehension skills are showing....by "you" I don't mean you personally....I clearly said "You guys" meaning the whole nation....I even said "You guys since 1947..."....that in itself is clear that I'm calling out the whole nation, all Pakistanis until the election of IK....

We all know the history of Pakistan, how dictatorships started, how "democracy" was given a chance...etc etc...all in all, the people of Pakistan failed Pakistan, whether there was outside help in obstructing the rise of Pakistan or not...

Remember, Allah doesn't change a peoples condition until they want to change themselves....when change happened and IK got elected, things have finally started getting set on the right track.

But this is going beyond the topic of discussion at hand, all I'm doing is explaining my points to you whereas you and Myth keep throwing personal insults.

Who are you to judge other Pakistanis? Only a retard would point fingers at others while portraying himself as a saint.

Again, where did I say I was on the right or I am a saint concerning the matter of the situation of the past??

I just said simply said that I wasn't part of the equation.

And you in your highly biased mind took it as me "portraying [my]self as a saint"....

What backbone does Turkey have? The Turkish economy is falling apart, unemployment is rising and the image of Erdogan has deteriorated domestically and internationally. The last time Erdogan had a meeting with Xi he struck a positive note on the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. The recent conference in Kuala Lumpur showed he didn't even mention the Uyghurs once even though the event was focused on the national security of the Muslim world. One member from the audience asked the question on the treatment of Uyghurs in China. What do you think was the response of Mahathir, Erdogan, and Rouhani? All three of them ignored the question.

Turkey's economy isn't "falling apart"....it just went through a Recession.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nment-eyes-acceleration-in-2020-idUSKBN1Y60IJ

I'm sure you can read the headline through the URL....it's a recent article, from a good news source & the article is from this month.

The image....whatever of it....if everyone was concerned with "making an image"...the US wouldn't be invading 10 different countries (made up number to imply many) in the span of 20 years and upending the whole country.....similarly, the West wouldn't be hypocritic, Muslims would be observant of their religion and so on...

In real life, as I'm sure you know, whoever has the bigger stick gets to do what they want to do.......Turkey started their offense into Syria because they had to do it (another topic; this is just an example).....they didn't care about "image making" & stopped the invasion...

Going to being quiet about the Uyghurs...we all accept, even the pro-Uyghurs, that China is very powerful and Muslim nations in their current situation aren't....not as much as we would like them (the Muslim nations) to be...so things have been quiet but no one is being silent...there's still uproar in the general public!

For example:

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/poli...sia-chinas-pr-blitz-uygurs-sparks-anger-among

One day, leaders will have to speak up again. And that is the day when the pro-Uyghur movement will take its next step...

You have read articles while I have been inside the country multiple times and spoken to hundreds of Uyghurs. But who am I to stop you in your pursuit of becoming an internet scholar. You remind me of a puppy who seeks constant attention. The last time I spoke on this subject was 6 months ago so spare me your bullshit. Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? If you want to spread awareness then take your sermons to someone else.

Oh wow!!

After 3 pages of going back and forth, plus adding the months you have come every time to post pro-China posts.....you think now is the time to make such a statement!?

What proof do you have that spoke to "hundreds of Uyghurs"?

Please do share the stories with us.....and video footage, interviews and such...

Were you allowed to make a video in public in Xinjiang, ask Uyghurs questions?

I'll be eagerly awaiting such proof.

Keep believing such nonsense

Okie dokie!

Rasengan means a spiral sphere. When plotted on a chart in a fractal way it looks like a Fibonacci Arc a principle that I apply in my work. I also won't deny I was a fan of the show but the first reason was more important than the second.

Copy.....for sec I thought you were another Naruto fanboi...but in a sense, anything that's a semi circle can look like a Fibonacci Arc

Remind me again what Itachi did in the show? He killed the entire Uchiha clan because it threatened the national interests of the village. The Uchiha coup would have led to the 4th ninja war and Konoha couldn't afford to fight against the other big nations. The same principle applies to Pakistan.

As as such, a Pakistani Itachi cleanses Pakistan of all it's filth thus saving it from impending doom or at least preparing it for it.....you see Itachi from your point of view, putting him into a nice picture where Pakistan frees itself from the US camp but happily puts itself under the tutelage of China...

A Pakistani Itachi would do no such thing. You need to look into the broader character of Itachi...how after seemingly betraying the village, he infiltrated the Akatsuki.

And as we all know, even tho Itachi got tricked by Obito in the end, Itachi was still talented enough scare the shit out of Orochimaru while spying on the Akatsuki, a world renown & feared terrorist organization up for hire....trying to destabilize nation states. I think I have given you enough hints already.

The Chinese member from Hong Kong is against the mainland Govt. I have debated the issue of the protest movement a dozen times with him.

Still, he's a Chinese.....just from the opposite side of the Coin.

His perspective on Chinese issue is, in my opinion, more important than uber nationalistic Chinese's that don't lose any sleep over any type of inhumanity or immorality.

An example:

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The British didn't create any nations. Read an actual history book.

Nations win their independence! Who in their right mind would let go of their sovereign claims??

Last time when sub continent Muslims tried to "win their independence" from british empire they were slaughtered! 1800s rebellion is the prime example.
British empire was not going to stay for ever. It came up with new exit strategy, it started nurturing future leaders of many countries. Its funny how bunch of Britishers got together and drew maps of nations that are suppose to win "independence" and installed their puppets who ensure Muslim nations remain confused as fuc as to which ruling system to fallow. Tell me in which Islamic history did they ever get independence like that? Did salahuddin first go to the crusaders land (europe) get nurtured and then asked them to draw maps for muslim's land or did he fight them until they were kicked out? Now Muslims specially pakistanis will come up with many excuses like oh jinnah was a great lawyer who fought his cases in britian well tell me would that have been possible during peak of british empire when they were busy slaughtering muslims and looting? The reason why pakistan is in a mess today leads back to its formation. listen kid, i have already discussed this couple of years ago and if u r interested u r more then welcome to go through my posts.

Do you know what "light years" stand for?? If they're "light years" ahead of Pakistan...why're they still living on planet Earth??
Your misgivings are quite astounding....same thing was said when Pakistan wanted to build nukes....did anyone eat grass then or/& now??

Without Pakistani support, China would be isolated like it was in the global economy. It would not be able to have OBOR or CPEC which will be the juglar veins to its economy from now on.

You have yet to provide any evidence of Pakistan's contribution in Chinese trillion dollars economy instead of some senescence.

Without CPEC/OBOR, the USN (US Navy) can easily blockade Chinese imports in the SCS (South China Sea)....which is why China is investing so heavily into Pakistan because guess what.....China needs Pakistan as much, if not more, as Pakistan needs China!

CPEC is among many of Chinese investments. If one fails they are already on another plan...
Btw Pakistani Sea ports have only contributed less then 1% of Chinese economy.

But if you want to act like a good slave like Pakistan has done to the British Empire & the US....continue on!

I have answered most of your counter arguments...I would have continued on but this clearly shows that in the end, you're showing your upbringing.

Insults, slurs & slandering...what else can be expected from certain Pakistanis huh?

im sorry bru, im just allergic to bullsh1t.
btw dont expect a reply back from me... im done wasting my time with you.

 

[Itachi]

Last time when sub continent Muslims tried to "win their independence" from british empire they were slaughtered! 1800s rebellion is the prime example.
British empire was not going to stay for ever. It came up with new exit strategy, it started nurturing future leaders of many countries. Its funny how bunch of Britishers got together and drew maps of nations that are suppose to win "independence" and installed their puppets who ensure Muslim nations remain confused as fuc as to which ruling system to fallow. Tell me in which Islamic history did they ever get independence like that? Did salahuddin first go to the crusaders land (europe) get nurtured and then asked them to draw maps for muslim's land or did he fight them until they were kicked out? Now Muslims specially pakistanis will come up with many excuses like oh jinnah was a great lawyer who fought his cases in britian well tell me would that have been possible during peak of british empire when they were busy slaughtering muslims and looting? The reason why pakistan is in a mess today leads back to its formation. listen kid, i have already discussed this couple of years ago and if u r interested u r more then welcome to go through my posts.

There's seriously something wrong with you lol...

1) You can't write in paragraphs.

2) You're saying that the hundreds of thousands of Muslims, if not millions, that pushed & fought for Independence was for nothing...

3) You're giving British too much credit...while they did drew lines on the map....Pakistan still got 1/3 of Kashmir and could have gotten more if not for bad leadership.

4) Your issues with Jinnah are very appalling. The man died to make Pakistan a reality and this is what you have to say about him??

Please do get your head checked up...

thats why i call you chotiya

You're only calling yourself that....all uttered by a human towards another human only come flying back....especially if a Muslim calls another Muslim that word.

You have yet to provide any evidence of Pakistan's contribution in Chinese trillion dollars economy instead of some senescence.

I did the google search for you

CPEC is among many of Chinese investments. If one fails they are already on another plan...
Btw Pakistani Sea ports have only contributed less then 1% of Chinese economy.

Right...

So you see....if CPEC fails....OBOR won't have much of a chance.

If you want to keep living in delusion then I can't help you. I can't help anyone see their worth if they don't want to see the reality.

Start practising!

im sorry bru, im just allergic to bullsh1t.
btw dont expect a reply back from me... im done wasting my time with you.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

There's seriously something wrong with you lol...

1) You can't write in paragraphs.

it. is. ok.

2) You're saying that the hundreds of thousands of Muslims, if not millions, that pushed & fought for Independence was for nothing...

That was the plan by Britishit empire so after they leave we just fight each other. Not saying muslim hindus were living in harmony before british empire but atleast during muslim's rule they were in much better relations then they are today.

3) You're giving British too much credit...while they did drew lines on the map....Pakistan still got 1/3 of Kashmir and could have gotten more if not for bad leadership.

Tell me how exactly was east and west pakistan gonna turn out with a giant opponent between the two parts? Its like Pakistan was already created to be separated from beginning to give india an upper hand.

4) Your issues with Jinnah are very appalling. The man died to make Pakistan a reality and this is what you have to say about him?

You do know spies and agents also die for a mission. that guy along with rest of other nation leadership including ghandi were all british empire asset who worked for one goal. how to implement british empire corrupt system after they are gone. What if i tell you he had deep links with freemasonry and many other dark secret societies?
would you not call afghan government american poodle if they are all brought up in US and implemented through deception?

Please do get your head checked up...

sure

You're only calling yourself that....all uttered by a human towards another human only come flying back....especially if a Muslim calls another Muslim that word.

actually you are a nice guy and im sorry for calling u name.

View attachment 595804

View attachment 595805

View attachment 595806


I did the google search for you




Right...

View attachment 595810

View attachment 595811

View attachment 595809

View attachment 595812

So you see....if CPEC fails....OBOR won't have much of a chance.

If you want to keep living in delusion then I can't help you. I can't help anyone see their worth if they don't want to see the reality.

Start practising!

Bro, China recently started using Pakistani sea port and even then it still does not contribute 1% of chinese $12 trillion economy where as pakistan is almost depending on CEPEC for its survival of its economy.
btw you were supposed to enlighten us how Pakistan played its role building Chinese $12 trillion dollar economy yet pakistan failed to sustain few hundred billion dollars in past 10-20 years.

 

[Itachi]

That was the plan by Britishit empire so after they leave we just fight each other. Not saying muslim hindus were living in harmony before british empire but atleast during muslim's rule they were in much better relations then they are today.

That plan only worked because of inept leadership on our part....too many depended on Jinnah alone. Just like today, too many are depending on IK alone.

We needed a whole system back then, we need it now. 1 man can only do so much...

Be glad we even got Pakistan since the original British plan was for Pakistan to collapse in mere months and for India to absorb it.

Either way, you give too much credit to the British.....you only see their plans that worked...not the bigger plans that failed because of Jinnah & the help of Allah SWT.

We got 1/3 of Kashmir which wasn't on the map for us and could have gotten the rest if not for.....wait for it!.....inept leadership!

Tell me how exactly was east and west pakistan gonna turn out with a giant opponent between the two parts? Its like Pakistan was already created to be separated from beginning to give india an upper hand.

If I give you sour grapes, it's up to your to take the seeds and grow a vineyard or complain about it....not my problem....I just gave you grapes!

Similarly, we had India cornered from 2 sides....if we had kept up brotherly relations with East Pakistan and didn't have.....wait for it!......inept leadership, East Pakistan would have still been with us today.

Remember, they only went for East Pakistan after our 1965 debacle....where we still didn't get Kashmir and never even thought of pushing for North-East Indian territory, which would have made a lot of sense after the war too.....we could have traded the NE territory for Kashmir or kept it and pushed further into India from the East, which would have kept the Indians more busy...

Look at that...it would have been so easy (in relative terms) to take that!

You do know spies and agents also die for a mission. that guy along with rest of other nation leadership including ghandi were all british empire asset who worked for one goal. how to implement british empire corrupt system after they are gone. What if i tell you he had deep links with freemasonry and many other dark secret societies?
would you not call afghan government american poodle if they are all brought up in US and implemented through deception?

I read up on Jinnah and all the conspiracies regarding him being a Freemason are just that...conspiracies.

If you have proof, please show it to me. I do believe in Freemasons (many of US presidents have been one) but I never believed that Jinnah was one due to his relationship with Iqbal, who himself called Jinnah back from London to speed up the pro-Pakistan movement.

Again, I would like to see proofs (links & sources) on the matter regarding you pov (point of view) of Jinnah.

actually you are a nice guy and im sorry for calling u name.

oh wow....what made your heart soften?

You still gotta sing this tho:

Or Xi Jinping might get mad at you and block CPEC.

Bro, China recently started using Pakistani sea port and even then it still does not contribute 1% of chinese $12 trillion economy where as pakistan is almost depending on CEPEC for its survival of its economy.
btw you were supposed to enlighten us how Pakistan played its role building Chinese $12 trillion dollar economy yet pakistan failed to sustain few hundred billion dollars in past 10-20 years.

So why would they make a $50B+ investment without seeking ROI (return on investment)??

Instead of making $$$ from CPEC/OBOR, they saving $$$, billions of it.....they're also bypassing the SCS & Straits of Malacca, where their ships would have been blockaded & destroyed by USN & allies. That in itself is a very big saving.

I have said it already and I'll say it once more......whatever the Pakistani govt. wants you to believe.....the reality being.....China needs Pakistan more than the other way around.

Heck, we can even make China do things because of our relationship, like not persecute Uyghurs but only if the Pakistani govt. had balls.....which were never present since 1947 for the most part.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

That plan only worked because of inept leadership on our part....too many depended on Jinnah alone. Just like today, too many are depending on IK alone.

We needed a whole system back then, we need it now. 1 man can only do so much...

We as Pakistanis look at only end result. We never question how the result was achieved or why even if it is in their own benefit. Think of it this way.. Everybody except for one student fails math class. That student is given all answers the day before by the teacher. I will further explain this analogy in the post.

Be glad we even got Pakistan since the original British plan was for Pakistan to collapse in mere months and for India to absorb it.

Either way, you give too much credit to the British.....you only see their plans that worked...not the bigger plans that failed because of Jinnah & the help of Allah SWT.

It was against British plan to have united India since it would have remained in constant struggle among hindus and muslims. Imagine India with current situation 10 times worst! And I'm not suggesting we should have remained with Endia.

We got 1/3 of Kashmir which wasn't on the map for us and could have gotten the rest if not for.....wait for it!.....inept leadership!

Kashmir was one of the conflict created by British empire just to make sure both India and Pakistan would never get along with each other.

If I give you sour grapes, it's up to your to take the seeds and grow a vineyard or complain about it....not my problem....I just gave you grapes!

Similarly, we had India cornered from 2 sides....if we had kept up brotherly relations with East Pakistan and didn't have.....wait for it!......inept leadership, East Pakistan would have still been with us today.

Pakistan was is and will never be in a position to have leverage over India with two geographically separated Pakistan. It's a logistical nightmare to have full control unless you are a super power with a weaker nation in between you who pose no threat. Now imagine Kashmir on western side of Pakistan's border. India would have failed long time ago to secure it from Pakistan's invasion because of..... wait for it!.... logistical nightmare

Remember, they only went for East Pakistan after our 1965 debacle....where we still didn't get Kashmir and never even thought of pushing for North-East Indian territory, which would have made a lot of sense after the war too.....we could have traded the NE territory for Kashmir or kept it and pushed further into India from the East, which would have kept the Indians more busy..

Look at that...it would have been so easy (in relative terms) to take that!

.

To be honest with you, Pak won 65 to some extent because of Air force! It was a tie between the land forces since Pakistan failed to achieve its objectives. And India was very smart because they did not wanted to exploit east pakistan situation and instead waited for right moment in the form of 71 war.
I wont consider Bangladesh "traitors" since they have more commonality with India then Pakistan we lets be honest we were not fair with them.
The point is, it just made NO sense to provide Pakistan with east! The saying goes "don't bite off more than you can chew." The Brits gifted Pakistan's weakness to India.

I read up on Jinnah and all the conspiracies regarding him being a Freemason are just that...conspiracies.

If you have proof, please show it to me. I do believe in Freemasons (many of US presidents have been one) but I never believed that Jinnah was one due to his relationship with Iqbal, who himself called Jinnah back from London to speed up the pro-Pakistan movement.

Again, I would like to see proofs (links & sources) on the matter regarding you pov (point of view) of Jinnah.

Okay,

So you want to know he had more connection with Freemasonry then Islam?

His political career was started by..... Naoroji who was a Zoroastrian and a freemason
He married a zoroastrian Ruttie who practiced witchcraft and later he had to separate from her because muslims started to question him. Later his daughter married a zoroastrian.
He was a follower of Annie Beasent and referred to her as "mother" who was a co-freemason who herself was a devoted follower of
Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and you can learn more about here in this video.

(PS, ignore his other BS or you can gather information about her on your own)

He joined fabian society which is an occult society and among its members was his mother annie beasent.
And then we hear that later during his career he was transformed into a muslim freedom fighter or what ever but all he did was jump from one occult society to another!
Muslim league was formed by Aga khan who himself was a fat fk Freemason!
And then pakistanis also claimed that he was transformed into a visionary muslim leader by iqbal, bro! He was knighted by the freakin QUEEN! all he did was wright poetry while he was high! I dont want to discuss this in much detail because it just boggles my mind that we all have been duped by Brit empire!
Now very few records exist about his attempt to join freemasonry. However when Pakistan was formed Freemasonry lodges existed all across pakistan which was refered by the locals as "bhoot bangla" and he NEVER utter a word against it!

oh wow....what made your heart soften?

You still gotta sing this tho:

Or Xi Jinping might get mad at you and block CPEC.

So why would they make a $50B+ investment without seeking ROI (return on investment)??

Instead of making $$$ from CPEC/OBOR, they saving $$$, billions of it.....they're also bypassing the SCS & Straits of Malacca, where their ships would have been blockaded & destroyed by USN & allies. That in itself is a very big saving.

I have said it already and I'll say it once more......whatever the Pakistani govt. wants you to believe.....the reality being.....China needs Pakistan more than the other way around.

Heck, we can even make China do things because of our relationship, like not persecute Uyghurs but only if the Pakistani govt. had balls.....which were never present since 1947 for the most part.

Bro, CPEC is a investment that has ZERO contribution in Chinese economy! why do you keep bringing CPEC into this? You have yet to provide me some evidence about Pakistan's role in building China's 12 trillion dollar economy!

 

[Beast]

Heck, we can even make China do things because of our relationship, like not persecute Uyghurs but only if the Pakistani govt. had balls.....which were never present since 1947 for the most part.

Really?