All four provinces to buy eight helicopters from Russia

[Khafee]

I dont think we have that kind of facility for AW139 and that is what i was crying about when we bought the few AW-139 a few months back. It didn't made any sense back then to buy 8 10 choppers of a new type. However it was said that we will buy MANY more of the same kind and one main user was the provincial governments for VVIP transportation. Now with Mi17 selected for that i am not sure if we will buy more of those quite expensive AW139 and if we do not, i fail to see why we bought such a low number to begin with.

Look you or anyone else, don't take what I am about to say the wrong way. I say this with the best of intentions, BUT your helicopter procurement leaves a lot to be desired..

They buy Mi17's, then jump to AW139, then jump back to Mi17's. There is NO coherent long term strategy.

For a force, or country to move forward, helos are an integral part.

Pakistan does not have deep pockets, even if it did, given it's social and economical issues, spending on helos should be as cost effective as possible.

A better route would have been to issue a tender for 60, 100, or 150 helos. Delivery spread over 10~15 years, with TOT, however limited it might be.

The helos could then be split into Cargo, Combat, and VVIP versions. This would have also resulted in a domestic helicopter industry, albeit limited, but better than what exists today.

Lastly, long term financing could have been part of the package as well.

A transparent procurement process would also have insured kickbacks are kept at a min.

Best Regards

 

[Arsalan]

Look you or anyone else, don't take what I am about to say the wrong way. I say this with the best of intentions, BUT your helicopter procurement leaves a lot to be desired..

They buy Mi17's, then jump to AW139, then jump back to Mi17's. There is NO coherent long term strategy.

For a force, or country to move forward, helos are an integral part.

Pakistan does not have deep pockets, even if it did, given it's social and economical issues, spending on helos should be as cost effective as possible.

A better route would have been to issue a tender for 60, 100, or 150 helos. Delivery spread over 10~15 years, with TOT, however limited it might be.

The helos could then be split into Cargo, Combat, and VVIP versions. This would have also resulted in a domestic helicopter industry, albeit limited, but better than what exists today.

Lastly, long term financing could have been part of the package as well.

A transparent procurement process would also have insured kickbacks are kept at a min.

Best Regards

Take you wrongly for saying all this????

This is exactly what i have been saying when we were buying those AW139s. This do not makes sense at all. You are being polite, i will call this whole activity as quite ridiculous and stupid.

We have good maintenance facilities and logistics support for Mi17, China have got their assembly line for same going so no issues of parts whatsoever, all in all Mi17 is a VERY sensible move and i just wish we have stick to it. However it is quite obvious that those at the helm of affairs were not thinking straight or may be since they are not buying all this out of their own pocket so they do not even bother to THINK!!!

Totally agree with you, this jumping from one option to another do not makes sense.

 

[Hassan Guy]

For what purpose ?

civilian purpose

 

[Blue Marlin]

Take you wrongly for saying all this????

This is exactly what i have been saying when we were buying those AW139s. This do not makes sense at all. You are being polite, i will call this whole activity as quite ridiculous and stupid.

We have good maintenance facilities and logistics support for Mi17, China have got their assembly line for same going so no issues of parts whatsoever, all in all Mi17 is a VERY sensible move and i just wish we have stick to it. However it is quite obvious that those at the helm of affairs were not thinking straight or may be since they are not buying all this out of their own pocket so they do not even bother to THINK!!!

Totally agree with you, this jumping from one option to another do not makes sense.

i thought the 139's are for sar why else would it undergo testing in northern kashmir?
171's are purchased since they have a footing in pakistan already and are cheaper than the 139.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

They buy Mi17's, then jump to AW139, then jump back to Mi17's. There is NO coherent long term strategy.

One's more refined looks great in movies, then the other is a beast. Which do you think politicians want?

Pakistan's Mi-17s are old years of use and with changing doctrines of warfare they're not able to keep up with safety. The recent Mi-17 with the ambassadors, the one being shipped for repairs to Russia crashing in Afghanistan. MRO's can do only so much.

The Mi-35s was a good start to reestablish ties with Russia. Granted they were sold to the Pakistan Anti-Narcotics force. One would think that, if there is someone capable behind the acquisitions desk, these small buys are "trials by fire" for potentially bigger contracts.

 

[fatman17]

Sir this is quite strange however dont you think? With that deal of AW139 a few months back all of us were hoping that more AW139 will be bought for the VIP transportation role by provinces. Now they have selected Mi17 version, limiting the chances of anymore AW-139. So we will just be operating a few of those. Logistic nightmare.

true from a supply chain POV but we need to show to the Russians that we are keen for their equipment. we have a strong defence relationship with the Italians. further there is now a rebuild depot for Mi17 types at Qasim AB.

 

[shah1398]

Yes i know , but why didnt you trying Chinese chopper? are they inferior?

MI-17s have been extensively used in Pakistan by both Civilian set up and Military. People are already well trained in maintain/operating them plus they have served us damn well. So tell me should we be going for a total new transport Helo or should get something whom maintenance facilities are already available inside country?

No reason why Govt. civilian aircrafts, of the same type, cannot use this facility and save on foreign exchange.

Good point Sir. May be the main reasons are that due to extensive use in different operations, Army MRO set up is overloaded with its own helo and Govt aircraft might have to wait for sometime till it turn comes in but time is money for Govt and they cant wait for it. May be when flow of aircraft get smooth then civilian MI-17s can also be sent here.

 

[Arsalan]

i thought the 139's are for sar why else would it undergo testing in northern Kashmir?
171's are purchased since they have a footing in Pakistan already and are cheaper than the 139.

Actually what i am trying to say is that those could easily have been Mi17s as well. There was no real need for multiple platforms in such low numbers. At that time it was being said that the numbers will increase since we will go for more AW-139 in VIP transport duties and other such roles as well but now we are going for more Mi17 for that(sensibly).

Anyway, not an "end of the world" situation but i will still like some platform similarity and Mi17 seems a perfect choice with good support infra structure in place in Pakistan. Other different platforms should be only looked upon if they are totally different category or offer something extremely unique and extra.

Just a personal opinion and people may not agree with all this.

 

[Signalian]

Mi-17 has more carrying capacity than others like Z-9 or AW-139.