Alienating India

[su-47]

Its a good report, but I do resent the style with which its written. They are talking as if India should be a US lackey.

We are an sovereign nation. We will choose to ally with OUR national interest in mind. While I whole-heartedly support India-US relations, it will only take place if its beneficial to India and India is treated as a friend and an equal, not as a tool to be used and discarded when necessary.

As for India-China relations, they are improving, but we do have a few differences to sort out. Once we get that fixed, I don't see a reason we can't form an economic block. We can be friends with both USA and China in the future.

As for the share of the growth pie, we should remember that market forces drive the growth of either nation. The better competitor will win. So we should work to make ourselves more competitive.

 

[prototype]

the best option just avoid china

we can still grow without even an association with them

 

[niaz]

Add our brothers [Pakistan] to the mix if they can move beyond the K word.

I have many Indian friends in UK (my neighbor is a Sikh) as well as Indian colleagues. I am proud that I have very little prejudices regarding religion, ethnicity or language and I have never let any of these differences affect my dealings with other nationalities.

I was of the impression that majority of middle class Indians also thought like me and that religious/ national bias was the limited to RSS & Shiv Sena stalwarts.

However, comments of the ordinary Indians that I heard regarding the marriage of Sania Mirza and Shoab Malik astounded me. I hear spice radio a lot because I like listening to songs while driving. Yesterday, as I was driving back from Dubai (about two hours) Radio spice had a phone in about this event.

Oh boy was I taken aback. Majority of Indians living in Dubai (80% of them are Keralites) were spitting poison. Comments like “are there no Indian boys left that Sania had to chose a Pakistani?” and “Sania is not really an Indian, she was always partial to Pakistan” were what many callers said. The RJ (an Indian Muslim) always asked who was on the phone and what they did. A lot them were educated middle class people such as sales mangers, bankers, real estate agents etc.

These comments were about a girl who has received highest awards from GOI for services to India and has created a very good image of India thru her tennis. All this was forgotten and even her patriotism questioned just because she is marrying a Pakistani. Also look at Indian media; they are trying their level best to stop this marriage.

It matters very little to me whether this marriage takes place or not, but don’t the media and Pakistan haters realize that in youth, there is such thing as love? Would they have done the same thing if Sania were to marry a European or an Arab? IMO certainly not.

One never stops learning, and at the ripe old age of 65 I have come to realize that I was wrong. It is not the “K’ word. A very large section of Indian Joe Public harbors a deep hatred toward Pakistan and Pakistanis. I don’t mean BJP supporters or Hinduvta followers only. This hatred, with few exceptions runs right across the society. SAARC or not, don’t think India & Pakistan are likely to be chums for a very long time.

 

[harish]

Middle class common people. Joe public. Sure. Both our countries have them. But aside from common ground like the US or the UK or Dubai or Australia or Canada or some other neutral country, where do these two huge sections of society meet or get to know each other? Where is the common ground? Where is the human contact? In the absence of such, the individual ceases to exist and the collective whole assumes an interchangeable identity interposed on the individual. So for an Indian Joe, it is Pakistan which represents Niaz, and not Niaz himself. Hope that clears your confusion sir. As for religious prejudice, that is what you choose to read into the Sania-Shoaib episode and lump the Indian Joe with the same subjective perception. Indians do not see Shoaib as a Muslim sir. They see him as Pakistani. And for us, there is a world of difference between the two.

 

[rubyjackass]

I have many Indian friends in UK (my neighbor is a Sikh) as well as Indian colleagues. I am proud that I have very little prejudices regarding religion, ethnicity or language and I have never let any of these differences affect my dealings with other nationalities.

I was of the impression that majority of middle class Indians also thought like me and that religious/ national bias was the limited to RSS & Shiv Sena stalwarts.

However, comments of the ordinary Indians that I heard regarding the marriage of Sania Mirza and Shoab Malik astounded me. I hear spice radio a lot because I like listening to songs while driving. Yesterday, as I was driving back from Dubai (about two hours) Radio spice had a phone in about this event.

Oh boy was I taken aback. Majority of Indians living in Dubai (80% of them are Keralites) were spitting poison. Comments like “are there no Indian boys left that Sania had to chose a Pakistani?” and “Sania is not really an Indian, she was always partial to Pakistan” were what many callers said. The RJ (an Indian Muslim) always asked who was on the phone and what they did. A lot them were educated middle class people such as sales mangers, bankers, real estate agents etc.

These comments were about a girl who has received highest awards from GOI for services to India and has created a very good image of India thru her tennis. All this was forgotten and even her patriotism questioned just because she is marrying a Pakistani. Also look at Indian media; they are trying their level best to stop this marriage.

It matters very little to me whether this marriage takes place or not, but don’t the media and Pakistan haters realize that in youth, there is such thing as love? Would they have done the same thing if Sania were to marry a European or an Arab? IMO certainly not.

One never stops learning, and at the ripe old age of 65 I have come to realize that I was wrong. It is not the “K’ word. A very large section of Indian Joe Public harbors a deep hatred toward Pakistan and Pakistanis. I don’t mean BJP supporters or Hinduvta followers only. This hatred, with few exceptions runs right across the society. SAARC or not, don’t think India & Pakistan are likely to be chums for a very long time.

If you want to be nice niaz bhai, think about it from their point of view. Would Pakistanis not have spewed the same poison if say Fatima Bhutto is marrying an Indian? First of all agree that it is sexism at play here not nationalism. Indians would have gladly welcomed a Pakistani bride.

Remember the way even Zardari had to face the music of being partial to India? Almost everyone in Pakistan can be blamed as an Indian agent if they messed up a little.

Remember the way your so-called-secular Quaid-e-Azam(RIP) treated his own daughter after marrying a Parsi? with whom he has no enemity what-so-ever? Now see what is happening here. Although Sania as an individual has a right to marry anyone , she is marrying a guy who belongs to the country which pained India for over 6decades(the latest Keralite martyr for Pak terrorists fell in Mumbai operation). How are they supposed to feel? That she belonged to sporting world where rivalry reflects enemity of the countries is another baggage. Regardless of the reasons and their validity that is a perfectly normal public response. You wont agree? Ask Meera to marry some Indian star. No Meera has already acted in Indian movies. Ask Sherry Rahman to marry an Indian next time she gets a divorce. Make a case study out of her life and let me read it. I will support her as an Indian just as I support Sania's decision, you support her as a Pakistani. Let us see what happens to her political career or for that matter her private life. What happens to her love?


The point is hatred does not come to people spontaneously. So please don't act like you are trying though you are trying to only show how much you are 'hurt' by Indian 'grossness' without realizing or may be even after fully realizing that this is all pervading.


What happened to Jinnah's daughter's love? The same will happen to Sania's love. People will see that she is playing for India just as normal and will come to terms with things. As simple as that. Indians won't act differently from Pakistanis here. All that happens here is simple mob mentality. No genetic or national markers are here to differentiate us.


And for your K word conclusion that deserves a grand sarcastic applause. Do you think people here are raised being taught that Pakistan has to be destroyed? If not then what they will realise is just that Pakistan is messing with Kashmir, regardless of the validiy of their claim on K. Then how come you cant believe that Indians will stop hating Pakistan once K is left alone? May be its just that you DONT want to believe so. Well for me, its just this much. Let go K. India wont bother you. You need not bother India.

 

[harish]

First of all agree that it is sexism at play here not nationalism.

Remember the way your so-called-secular Quaid-e-Azam(RIP) treated his own daughter after marrying a Parsi? with whom he has no enemity what-so-ever?

Wonderfully articulated sir. The positively delicious irony leading credence to your sexism theory is that the same great man earlier had absolutely no problem in marrying, and converting to Islam, a Parsi girl himself, if I recall my history correctly?

 

[Hutchroy]

Peeps,

Sania Mirza marrying a Pakistani is a “LOSS” to some Indian Muslim Male.

Sania would never have married an Indian Non-Muslim be he a Sikh or Hindu or Jain or Christian or Jew or Zoroastrian or Buddhist or any other form of “Non-Muslim”

Regarding the Karelites in Dubai – An overwhelming Majority of them are Muslims anyway!

As such it is not an Indian Joe but an Indian Muslim who is feeling the Pain.

 

[Omar1984]

If you want to be nice niaz bhai, think about it from their point of view. Would Pakistanis not have spewed the same poison if say Fatima Bhutto is marrying an Indian? First of all agree that it is sexism at play here not nationalism. Indians would have gladly welcomed a Pakistani bride.

Remember the way even Zardari had to face the music of being partial to India? Almost everyone in Pakistan can be blamed as an Indian agent if they messed up a little.

Remember the way your so-called-secular Quaid-e-Azam(RIP) treated his own daughter after marrying a Parsi? with whom he has no enemity what-so-ever? Now see what is happening here. Although Sania as an individual has a right to marry anyone , she is marrying a guy who belongs to the country which pained India for over 6decades(the latest Keralite martyr for Pak terrorists fell in Mumbai operation). How are they supposed to feel? That she belonged to sporting world where rivalry reflects enemity of the countries is another baggage. Regardless of the reasons and their validity that is a perfectly normal public response. You wont agree? Ask Meera to marry some Indian star. No Meera has already acted in Indian movies. Ask Sherry Rahman to marry an Indian next time she gets a divorce. Make a case study out of her life and let me read it. I will support her as an Indian just as I support Sania's decision, you support her as a Pakistani. Let us see what happens to her political career or for that matter her private life. What happens to her love?


The point is hatred does not come to people spontaneously. So please don't act like you are trying though you are trying to only show how much you are 'hurt' by Indian 'grossness' without realizing or may be even after fully realizing that this is all pervading.


What happened to Jinnah's daughter's love? The same will happen to Sania's love. People will see that she is playing for India just as normal and will come to terms with things. As simple as that. Indians won't act differently from Pakistanis here. All that happens here is simple mob mentality. No genetic or national markers are here to differentiate us.


And for your K word conclusion that deserves a grand sarcastic applause. Do you think people here are raised being taught that Pakistan has to be destroyed? If not then what they will realise is just that Pakistan is messing with Kashmir, regardless of the validiy of their claim on K. Then how come you cant believe that Indians will stop hating Pakistan once K is left alone? May be its just that you DONT want to believe so. Well for me, its just this much. Let go K. India wont bother you. You need not bother India.

See the necklace Sania Mirza is wearing? It says Allah in Arabic.

Pakistanis see nothing wrong with two Muslims getting married.

If Fatima Bhutto married an Indian Muslim, Pakistanis wouldn't cry about it.

Both Shoaib Malik and Sania Mirza are Muslims.

 

[Icarus]

I would like to see Pakistan, India, China, Russia and Bangladesh in a EU style organization, that way we can benefit from free trade and border-less access, even within these countries we can manage profitable trade, not to mention the respect that comes from working together.
Just imagine jute from Bangladesh, Cotton from Pakistan can be processed in India and Pakistan and shipped via Russia.
If things get really good, joint defence developments between China, Russia, India and Pakistan can become marvels of technology.........
I have spent time with Indians in U.K, they are very close to the Pakistani community there because necessity has driven the two closer.
I would really like necessity to strike once or twice here as well !!!!!!

 

[Hutchroy]

One never stops learning, and at the ripe old age of 65 I have come to realize that I was wrong. It is not the “K’ word. A very large section of Indian Joe Public harbors a deep hatred toward Pakistan and Pakistanis. I don’t mean BJP supporters or Hinduvta followers only. This hatred, with few exceptions runs right across the society. SAARC or not, don’t think India & Pakistan are likely to be chums for a very long time.

I trust that in the last - at least - Forty Years on this "God's Earth" you will have realized that the Pakistani School Curricula perpetrates "Hatred" in the Pakistani School Children for Non-Muslims in General and Indians (of course the Non-Muslims) in Particular.

As such if you read the latest Opinions of Pakistani Columnists it is a fact that not only Jinnaj Ordered-was cognizant of the Pakistani Army along with the Tribal Terrorists and now these Columnists opine that it was wrong of Jinnah to do so.

India has not time for Pakistan (do you think the USA spends any time on Mexico except for the problem of Mexican Illegal Immigrants).

India's "REACTIONS" are a direct outcome of Pakistan's "ACTIONS" against India.

I fully agree that it is not the Pakistani People but the Pakistani Leaderships' ability to make the Good Pakistani Abdul and Bilqis to hate India.

Remember present day Pakistan's Population at the time of Partition was about 30 Million - it is now about 180 Million i.e. SIX TIMES.

India's Population at the time of Partition was about 330 Million and now it is about 1.2 Billion - a bit more that Three and a Half Times.

It is the inability of the Pakistani Leaderships to stop the "Downward" slide of the conditions of the Ordinary Pakistani that is the root cause of the Pakistani Leaderships of all hues to divert the attention of their population by playing up the "Indian Threat". In this respect I would request you to get the India-Pakistan comparison of per capita GDP for the period 1990 to 2009. Please do post the Table in this "Sub-Forums'" Topic.

I assure you that under normal circumstances the Indian and Pakistani People have no hatred for each other.

 

[Icarus]

I trust that in the last - at least - Forty Years on this "God's Earth" you will have realized that the Pakistani School Curricula perpetrates "Hatred" in the Pakistani School Children for Non-Muslims in General and Indians (of course the Non-Muslims) in Particular.

Incorrect, who told you this, might I ask, have you ever even SEEN a Pakistani school text book ? Then of course you read it so you must be incredibly fluent in Urdu ??????

As such if you read the latest Opinions of Pakistani Columnists it is a fact that not only Jinnaj Ordered-was cognizant of the Pakistani Army along with the Tribal Terrorists and now these Columnists opine that it was wrong of Jinnah to do so.

Tribals invading Kashmir were terrorists, Pakistan army was wrong to support them, what about Maharaja Hari Singh who forcefully expelled Kashmiris from their land to put down the rebellion ? And what about the Indians who have yet to hold a plebiscite in Kashmir ? You give the meaning to "Turning a blind eye".

India has not time for Pakistan (do you think the USA spends any time on Mexico except for the problem of Mexican Illegal Immigrants).

Oh yes and i suppose the Tanks, Warships, Airplanes and the world's Third largest military is to amuse children ??????

India's "REACTIONS" are a direct outcome of Pakistan's "ACTIONS" against India.

What, you mean like calling us terrorists for fighting terrorists in the West ?

I fully agree that it is not the Pakistani People but the Pakistani Leaderships' ability to make the Good Pakistani Abdul and Bilqis to hate India.

It is also a quality of Indian leaders to spew poison about Pakistan.....

I assure you that under normal circumstances the Indian and Pakistani People have no hatred for each other.

I beg to differ, there is hatred between the people of the two nations, though I hope it can be healed.

 

[Icarus]

Wonderfully articulated sir. The positively delicious irony leading credence to your sexism theory is that the same great man earlier had absolutely no problem in marrying, and converting to Islam, a Parsi girl himself, if I recall my history correctly?

You yourself have answered your question Harish, Rattanbai converted to Islam so there was no problem, however, Dina Wadia, the Quaid's daughter converted to Zoroastrianism, that is pretty much unacceptable to a Muslim that their child should forsake their religion as it would be for a christian, Hindu or anyone else, he said he had forsaken her however he could not break all ties with her, after all she was his daughter, he continued to stay in touch with Dina until his death....................

 

[graphican]

Add our brothers [Pakistan] to the mix if they can move beyond the K word.

And why do you think its only Pakistan that has to change something?

 

[harish]

You yourself have answered your question Harish, Rattanbai converted to Islam so there was no problem, however, Dina Wadia, the Quaid's daughter converted to Zoroastrianism, that is pretty much unacceptable to a Muslim that their child should forsake their religion as it would be for a christian, Hindu or anyone else, he said he had forsaken her however he could not break all ties with her, after all she was his daughter, he continued to stay in touch with Dina until his death....................

Kakgeta I invite you to read what I have written again. It is unacceptable to every religion for a member to leave. Even more unacceptable if the member is made to leave. If you expect your bride to accept your religion by forsaking her own, why the double standards in disowning your own daughter from accepting that of her husband's? Is the playing field suddenly different? Also please remember that like us Hindus, and unlike Muslims and Christians, you are born a Parsi. You cannot become one. Just a small correction. I hope you see my point now my friend.

 

[prototype]

to all pakistani and indian members dont ruin this thread by discussing abt sania,shoaib.

their is an another thread dedicated to them which is breaking all records of this forum

a lot of other things r happening in the world but members here r still struk on sania-shoaib affair