AlhamduliLLAH, KF21 first flight, landed safely

[Indos]

Congrats
However I question the usefulness. The jet uses US engine. The jet probably uses most parts from US, EU, Japan. That makes the jet highly dependent and expensive.
So why not buy the original F35, now prized $85 million something?

Thanks

USA refuses Indonesia to get F 35. Our Defense Minister has asked it, but rejected and USA offer F16 V as replacement in which our defense minister rejected.

US part is something not a problem for Indonesia. Indonesia only has US and European arm embargo when Western power become the sole leader of the world. Now we have China as another power that is supported by Russia who has been gaining power due to raising oil and gas price for the late 2 decades.

USA needs Indonesia as balancing power in SEA against mighty Dragon from the East. At least as Indonesia become important player in ASEAN block, it is important to be close to Indonesia. Not only USA, but other Western powers also see Indonesia as important in this balance of power games in SCS. Of course Vietnam is also important in this game and we have basically in the same side while Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar are in China side already.

There is mutual interest between Indonesia and Western powers that is lead by USA in this current geopolitical situation. This is why I believe it will be OK for Indonesia to have cooperation with South Korea in the fighter program where US engine and other US technologies are used. We are under different situation compared to 1990-2005 where we got US embargo due to Santa Cruz event in East Timor. Indonesia also has let go East Timor in 1999 which is IMO a correct decision by Habibie since it will become a political burden for Indonesia when we have to deal with Christian Western powers. As we get East Timor through invasion, then it is also not good for our position if we talk about respecting international rule of law in SCS while we keep colonizing East Timor.

--------------------------------

The development cost of KF21 is not as much as F35 or other Western countries fighter program like Rafale. That is of course based on current calculation, hopefully there will be no major hurdle that we will face during this development that could increase the cost of the plane significantly. The price I believe will be quite similar with F 35 while we can control the fighters 100%, I mean it will be easier to do the upgrade by ourselves which is something that is stated directly by our KFX/IFX program manager in Indonesian media some years ago.

And dont forget that the fighter is planned to have wingman drone, this is another opportunity for Indonesian Aerospace to develop its own Stealth wingman drone for the fighter that could also be used as independent drone. This could possibly grow our aerospace company into the next level.

Currently we are developing MALE UCAV which is a good stepping stone for us before we develop Stealth wingman drone (hopefully).

 

[Song Hong]

Congrats
However I question the usefulness. The jet uses US engine. The jet probably uses most parts including weapons from US, EU, Japan. That makes the jet highly dependent and expensive.
So why not buy the original F35, now prized $85 million something?

Its like Viettel uses Ericsson 5g. Indonesia and Korea elites want to develop R&D capabilities.

Putting components together and designing a new airframe is no simple task also.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Thanks

Yup, all Indian YT channel that I saw talking about KF21 first flight made many lies. They also said Lockheed Martin joined the program since 2010 LOL

KAI and LM join the program in 2015 it is because LM is technical assistant for KAI. The selection is based on tender, there was European consortium partner with other Korean company who also wants to be partner, but Korea chose KAI and LM as its technical assistant.

Complete real story can be seen in KFX/IFX sticky thread in Far East section, I put respected Indonesian media, Kompas, who tell about the story since it has still in the form of plan but not yet executed.

Any way longer video of first flight is just released by South Korea Air Force

These Indians are jealous and peddling lies. They have been struggling to make a light aircraft for the last 40 years to replace their 3rd gen Mig-21s while Indonesia has successfully made a 5th gen fighter in a decade.

 

[Indos]

These Indians are jealous and peddling lies. They have been struggling to make a light aircraft for the last 40 years to replace their 3rd gen Mig-21s while Indonesia has successfully made a 5th gen fighter in a decade.

Yup, they are busy making excuse and now talking about how many Western components are inside the KF21 fighter. Well, anything must be done in step by step basis, all defense enthusiast will be agree that only USA, Russia, France, and China that can make 100 % localization of their modern fighters. Even F 35 gets so many components from outside USA.

 

[Viet]

Thanks

USA refuses Indonesia to get F 35. Our Defense Minister has asked it, but rejected and USA offer F16 V as replacement in which our defense minister rejected.

US part is something not a problem for Indonesia. Indonesia only has US and European arm embargo when Western power become the sole leader of the world. Now we have China as another power that is supported by Russia who has been gaining power due to raising oil and gas price for the late 2 decades.

USA needs Indonesia as balancing power in SEA against mighty Dragon from the East. At least as Indonesia become important player in ASEAN block, it is important to be close to Indonesia. Not only USA, but other Western powers also see Indonesia as important in this balance of power games in SCS. Of course Vietnam is also important in this game and we have basically in the same side while Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar are in China side already.

There is mutual interest between Indonesia and Western powers that is lead by USA in this current geopolitical situation. This is why I believe it will be OK for Indonesia to have cooperation with South Korea in the fighter program where US engine and other US technologies are used. We are under different situation compared to 1990-2005 where we got US embargo due to Santa Cruz event in East Timor. Indonesia also has let go East Timor in 1999 which is IMO a correct decision by Habibie since it will become a political burden for Indonesia when we have to deal with Christian Western powers. As we get East Timor through invasion, then it is also not good for our position if we talk about respecting international rule of law in SCS while we keep colonizing East Timor.

--------------------------------

The development cost of KF21 is not as much as F35 or other Western countries fighter program like Rafale. That is of course based on current calculation, hopefully there will be no major hurdle that we will face during this development that could increase the cost of the plane significantly. The price I believe will be quite similar with F 35 while we can control the fighters 100%, I mean it will be easier to do the upgrade by ourselves which is something that is stated directly by our KFX/IFX program manager in Indonesian media some years ago.

And dont forget that the fighter is planned to have wingman drone, this is another opportunity for Indonesian Aerospace to develop its own Stealth wingman drone for the fighter that could also be used as independent drone. This could possibly grow our aerospace company into the next level.

Currently we are developing MALE UCAV which is a good stepping stone for us before we develop Stealth wingman drone (hopefully).

View attachment 863806

I think the US will eventually sell F35s to more countries down the road. You have F16. Indonesia is naturally very anti communist, very suspicious of China. The more aggressive chinese posture the faster Indonesia will get F35. Like the possibility of selling F35 to Vietnam. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

[Kaleem.61]

It's tremendous development. Not just the machine but the eco system for advanced aircraft development which really matters the most in the long run.
There are many folds and many layers of learning curves to this from metallurgy to software development.
Praise worthy.
There is a lot to learn from this project. India should focus on innovation and creativity side by side should accept the humility and improve upon the cumbersome bureaucratic as well as administrative management to speed up skill based quick model of implementation and production.

Sadly people here are distracted from the real developmental path ways

They want to reinvent the wheel. They want it to be made in India. LOL a reverse engineered or collaborated jet will not mind protecting your airspace.

Yup, all Indian YT channel that I saw talking about KF21 first flight made many lies. They also said Lockheed Martin joined the program since 2010 LOL

U 9 one said su30 can detect J20 lolol!

 

[murugan]

They want to reinvent the wheel. They want it to be made in India. LOL a reverse engineered or collaborated jet will not mind protecting your airspace.

U 9 one said su30 can detect J20 lolol!

See the made in India concept is to fulfill different set of goals like industry ecosystem build up, Job generation and skill development of local people and most importantly economic growth by symbiotic relationship with public as well as private sectors to achieve innovation as well as to be at par with western modern technological prowess.
When it comes to war, if it does the job then it doesn't matter whether it is a collaboration project or reverse engineered one. You can take the examples of F35 lightening
and Babur Cruise missile.
Made in India is a good initiative at least with reference to ecosystem build up and economy.
But making it successful is a different agenda all together.
My point is India must hasten it's creative as well as developmental processes to achieve critical technology miles stones like single crystal turbine blades And drone technology, AI warfare as well as laser defensive weapons. Without proper work and planned visionary execution there will be no future to look to.
For this The internal political as well as educational ecosystem of a country must be clear and developed. Sadly there seems a lot of work to be done in India.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Yup, they are busy making excuse and now talking about how many Western components are inside the KF21 fighter. Well, anything must be done in step by step basis, all defense enthusiast will be agree that only USA, Russia, France, and China that can make 100 % localization of their modern fighters. Even F 35 gets so many components from outside USA.

Indians should first check how many imported parts they have in their LCA.

I think the US will eventually sell F35s to more countries down the road. You have F16. Indonesia is naturally very anti communist, very suspicious of China. The more aggressive chinese posture the faster Indonesia will get F35. Like the possibility of selling F35 to Vietnam. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

US will sell F-35s to only countries that are closely allied to the US. US is refusing to sell F-35 to Turkiye, India, Indonesia, Malaysia etc.

 

[Kaleem.61]

See the made in India concept is to fulfill different set of goals like industry ecosystem build up, Job generation and skill development of local people and most importantly economic growth by symbiotic relationship with public as well as private sectors to achieve innovation as well as to be at par with western modern technological prowess.
When it comes to war, if it does the job then it doesn't matter whether it is a collaboration project or reverse engineered one. You can take the examples of F35 lightening
and Babur Cruise missile.
Made in India is a good initiative at least with reference to ecosystem build up and economy.
But making it successful is a different agenda all together.
My point is India must hasten it's creative as well as developmental processes to achieve critical technology miles stones like single crystal turbine blades And drone technology, AI warfare as well as laser defensive weapons. Without proper work and planned visionary execution there will be no future to look to.
For this The internal political as well as educational ecosystem of a country must be clear and developed. Sadly there seems a lot of work to be done in India.

What i mean is before diving measure the depth.


Step by step... Way to the moon!

First step is colab with USA/ Russia/ China and then try to study *** much as you can.
I guess Russia is better choice!

 

[murugan]

What i mean is before diving measure the depth.


Step by step... Way to the moon!

First step is colab with USA/ Russia/ China and then try to study *** much as you can.
I guess Russia is better choice!

All the nations who want to prosper in the long run need to develop their own capabilities.
No one will share critical technology.
Rather more developed nations will try to play risky and learn different new phenomenon at the cost of your own beloved project.
So thinking that collaboration is the only way and soul number 1 step is a myth. Developing your own program is the key. A side by side collaboration project may progress also but in my opinion one country should spend it's valuable resources on self innovation and progress.
There is no other way. The hard way is the way. Due to sanctions India has lost a good chunk of time already. But lately some progress is being seen especially in the private sector companies in India.