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Akbar and other Mughals

the moghuls are no different from any other rulers of the world
some were good, some were bad, but the only impact that i see from them is the spread of islam and the unity of the subcontinent, other than that they are no different
 
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The projected villainy of Aurangzeb is not totally baseless. He also pained the Qutub Shahis of Hyderabad. There are suggestions like ' WHy did he have to attack and annex a friendly(at least a country he can pressure into doing whatever he wanted) territory?'

SO I am going to let the Hindu nationalists go on this one. THe Golconda siege is one of the black marks on the 'saintly' Aurangzeb.

History of Hyderabad, India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want to justify with the rebellion suppression cause, I would remind you that even Akbar was faced with many of them and allegedly slaughtered Hindus. But still people regard him differently because he spent less time expanding and more time making relations.
I have read in a History that the fight against and annexation of two small but strong kingdoms, Bijapur and Golkunda, of the south was the biggest political and military blunders made by Aurangzeb. With the downfall of these kingdoms, there remained no local force that could challenge the Marathas. As a result, Aurangzeb had to spend all his life in the South to resist the Marathas from expanding.
 
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the moghuls are no different from any other rulers of the world
some were good, some were bad, but the only impact that i see from them is the spread of islam and the unity of the subcontinent, other than that they are no different
Other than a few zealots, the Muslim sovereigns did not force anybody to accept Islam. Islam was spread by the Pirs, Darvesh, Mullahs and Faqirs. Had the Muslim emperors tried the way the Hindus today propagate, then either their empire would have crumbled immediately or all the Hindus of India would have accepted Islam.
 
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I have read in a History that the fight against and annexation of two small but strong kingdoms, Bijapur and Golkunda, of the south was the biggest political and military blunders made by Aurangzeb. With the downfall of these kingdoms, there remained no local force that could challenge the Marathas. As a result, Aurangzeb had to spend all his life in the South to resist the Marathas from expanding.
Which can mean only that his greed is the culprit. And then people tell me about his stitching caps for livelihood when I see that he lived most of his time in the south fighting over lands that are not his initially and then over those tiny tracts stolen by Marathas taking advantage of his wars. See why historians in general not just Hindus dont give him credit?

Deccan was not under Mughals when Aurangzeb came in. So what he was doing is not just quelling a rebellion.

My point is just that a man who did stupid things was rightfully denied a great place in history. It is not any conspiracy by Hindus.
 
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giving rights to non muslims is not allowed in ISLAM?

now don't try to distort my words!!!! i said HINDUS love AKBAR because he distorted islam!!! if we speak in strictly religious terms!!! and not only islamic but christianity 7 judism or even hinduism AKBAR was a damned soul because he left HIS religion...and i guess in every religion leaving your own religion is a SIN...or is HINDUISM cool about people converting to other religions?
 
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Which can mean only that his greed is the culprit. And then people tell me about his stitching caps for livelihood when I see that he lived most of his time in the south fighting over lands that are not his initially and then over those tiny tracts stolen by Marathas taking advantage of his wars. See why historians in general not just Hindus dont give him credit?

Deccan was not under Mughals when Aurangzeb came in. So what he was doing is not just quelling a rebellion.

My point is just that a man who did stupid things was rightfully denied a great place in history. It is not any conspiracy by Hindus.
An emperor does not move out of greed only, he has to think of annexation of nearby lands and expansion of his empire. I do not see a personal lust of Aurangzeb, because he was not after gold or beautiful women. But, he had to bring other parts of Hindustan under the fold of Delhi.

But, he made this fatal mistake of destroying two small, but robust independent kingdoms in the south, when he could have used them to fight the Marathas. Because of this mistake, he had to spend his entire life fighting the Maratha rebellion in the south.
 
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even the name of this thread shows the mentality of hindus AKBAR & Moghuls....as in why not discuss all the moghuls and it is because of the moghuls that the "CULTURE" of the sub continent is formed!!!

so as a DYNASTY or a family the moghuls overall generally had a positive influence
 
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Had he not bankrupted the State in figthing the Maratha guerrillas, the English would not have been able to come in thru the back door.
I agree with most of the points you have noted in your post. But, Aurangzeb's deeds were not responsible for the rise of english in Hindustan. Instead, it was Nawab Alivardy Khan of Bengal whose actions were directly responsible for weakening the political fabrics of Bengal. He was the Foujdar of Bihar appointed by Malik Suja-ud-Din Khan, the Subedar of Bengal. But, upon the death of his master and mentor, he conspired with Delhi Mughal PM to appoint and recognize him as the legal Subedar of Bengal instead of Malik Sarfaraz Khan, son of the deceased.

Subsequently, Malik Sarfaraz was kiilled in a battle. This event made Mir Habib, the Foujdar of Orissa to conspire with the Marathas and call them to regain Orissa for him. War between Bengal and Maratha continued for long ten years before a compromise was reached.

During wartime, a ruler becomes very weak and starts to appease his generals and the feudal Lords. This is how the political fabrics of Bengal were destroyed and the Bengal govt became weak. Alivardy had all the qualities of a great ruler and a great general, but he should not have usurped the throne of Bengal. He was never defeated in any battle against the Marathas. The problem was that the Marathas never gave him a frontal battle, but were always skirmishing from behind. Well, it was typical of Maratha heroes all the time.

If Alivardy had supported Malik Sarfaraz, the subsequent history would have been quite different. When Alivardy died, the throne went to his eldest but ignorant grandson Siraj-ud-Dowlah. I checked many history books to know why the throne did not go to the father of Siraj.

Nawab Alivardy had no sons, but had three daughters named Ghoseti Begun, Amina Begum and ****** Begum. These three sisters were married to the three sons of Haji Ahmed, the elder brother of Alivardy. They were Nawazish Muhammad, Haji Jainuddin and *****.

All these three died before Alivardy himself died. The second son-in-law Jainuddin, who was the Foujdar of Bihar, and father of Siraj was killed by a group of Pathans of Bengal in his own palace when the Foujdar invited them there for a Party. In reality, Jainuddin was trying to woo this group led by Mustafa Khan to work for him. This group was previously expelled from the army of Nawab.

If Jainuddin was alive when Alivardy died, naturally the throne would have gone to him. Siraj was only 22 yrs old, but his father was probably 45 yrs old. Even if other things remain same, the seniority makes a real difference.

The generals who had betrayed Siraj would not have dared to do so with his father. He, a middle aged man, certainly knew more about politics and he had many acquintances and well wishers. He certainly also had his spy networks. Simply speaking, the history would have been different in such a case, because a Plassey conspiracy was not possible in such a situation.

So, it was not Aurangzeb's deeds in the 17th Century, but the deeds of Alivardy Khan in the mid 18th century that acted as a catalyst to bring the bloody British to rule over Hindustan. It was our bad luck, but we cannot change all those events now. However, we should see the historical events in their proper perspectives.
 
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Deccan was not under Mughals when Aurangzeb came in. So what he was doing is not just quelling a rebellion.
As far as I know Aurangzeb was a Subedar in Deccan before becoming the Emperor, but I am not sure which part of Deccan it was. When the four sons of Shahjahan started fighting, Shah Shuja (2nd son) adavanced from his Subeh in Bengal, Aurangzeb (3rd son) advanced from Deccan and Murad (4th son) moved from the present day Pakistan's western part and Afghanistan. The eldest son Darah Sekoh was in Delhi/Agra with the Emperor.

It may be that some part of Deccan remained independent of Delhi for many centuries. But, once a region, by any chance, came under the Delhi rule, the central govt there would always try to regain control of that land. Perhaps, because of this reason, Aurangzeb moved against the two small kingdoms. But, it was only a small part of the total picture. The most pressing job was to contend the Marathas in the Deccan.
 
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who the f**k r u to tell somebody has done a sin by leaving a religion or not following any religion...
THis is the cause of todays unrest.... u belive sth and want to push the same notion on others too...

As long as somebody follows sth on his own and not under some false propaganda... nothing is wrong.... What sin crap r we talking abt ?
Frankly this religion is a bullshit..... - by the way I strongly believe there is power (energy) around us.... thats my personal opinion....

Religion was born after Humans advanced not other way round dick heads...:hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:


First of all MIND YOUR LANGUAGE.

I believe I have to remind you that this is a forum and it has its own ethics. Try following them.


Akbar was liked by HINDUS for the reason that he changed his religion and tried to merge the religions into something new. It wasn't any thing new to do.
 
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now don't try to distort my words!!!! i said HINDUS love AKBAR because he distorted islam!!! if we speak in strictly religious terms!!! and not only islamic but christianity 7 judism or even hinduism AKBAR was a damned soul because he left HIS religion...and i guess in every religion leaving your own religion is a SIN...or is HINDUISM cool about people converting to other religions?

i understood ur words perfectly again let me rephrase:

u dont like akbat because he left islam or u dont like him because he treated hindus at par with muslims.
 
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An emperor does not move out of greed only, he has to think of annexation of nearby lands and expansion of his empire. I do not see a personal lust of Aurangzeb, because he was not after gold or beautiful women. But, he had to bring other parts of Hindustan under the fold of Delhi.

But, he made this fatal mistake of destroying two small, but robust independent kingdoms in the south, when he could have used them to fight the Marathas. Because of this mistake, he had to spend his entire life fighting the Maratha rebellion in the south.
By the same line of reasoning and standards an emperor should be judged by his actions as a whole what he achieved and what he did to his posterity. What did Aurangzeb achieve? The wrath of many kings of India, irrespective of their religion and the downfall of Delhi. I suspect his popularity in Pakistan is because of his being a 'good Muslim' according to the standards of all people from a common man to the mullahs(who might say that with a glee considering facts like that he executed the Sikh Guru).

Are you really saying that the largest empire of India could not have saved us from the British if it were strong enough? The secret of the success behind the political division the British achieved in India is the lack of consolidation of the empire. In the end everyone acted as he liked in his own interest. The country as a whole was the victim. If the Mughals had grand treasures, they would have got modern arms from some European country. There were numerous enemies of British who were ready to help. Like when the West helped Japan industrialize after Meiji restoration. Don't you think?
 
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Are you really saying that the largest empire of India could not have saved us from the British if it were strong enough? The secret of the success behind the political division the British achieved in India is the lack of consolidation of the empire. In the end everyone acted as he liked in his own interest. The country as a whole was the victim. If the Mughals had grand treasures, they would have got modern arms from some European country. There were numerous enemies of British who were ready to help. Like when the West helped Japan industrialize after Meiji restoration. Don't you think?
You are correct, the Mughals were not for entrepreneurship, nor were any of their vessels. Arabs, Spanish, Portugese, French and Englishmen applied for sea-voyage and trading license to their respective Sovereigns to do business with Hindustan. But, it was not reciprocated by the Emperors of Hindustan.

I have read somewhere that Badshah Shahjahan waited eagerly to receive the western traders in his court only to get beatifully designed gifts produced in europe. Pocket watch was one such item. But, this emperor or anyone else did not want that the similar goods be produced in Hindustan. Probably, he did not want the ordinary Hindustanis to wear such fancy goods.

Same thing happened to the production of armaments as well as the training of the army in the european way. Yes, all these acted simultaneously to eat up the strength here so that only a few number of small battles here and there brought the British on our heads.
 
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By the same line of reasoning and standards an emperor should be judged by his actions as a whole what he achieved and what he did to his posterity. What did Aurangzeb achieve? The wrath of many kings of India, irrespective of their religion and the downfall of Delhi. I suspect his popularity in Pakistan is because of his being a 'good Muslim' according to the standards of all people from a common man to the mullahs(who might say that with a glee considering facts like that he executed the Sikh Guru).

Are you really saying that the largest empire of India could not have saved us from the British if it were strong enough? The secret of the success behind the political division the British achieved in India is the lack of consolidation of the empire. In the end everyone acted as he liked in his own interest. The country as a whole was the victim. If the Mughals had grand treasures, they would have got modern arms from some European country. There were numerous enemies of British who were ready to help. Like when the West helped Japan industrialize after Meiji restoration. Don't you think?

The essence of ruling or leadership ( as we now know in modern times ) is to carry the team, make everyone work / deliver to their max potential.

Az failed in this one vital point by alienating all his non muslim subjects who obviously then worked towards the detriment of the dynasty his forefathers so painstakingly created.

Not to mention the impact this & other actions had on communal harmony in the sub continent.
 
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