Aircraft carrier Liaoning vs Vikramaditya

[neytirilover]

LOLL. Apart from aviation, you don't know anything about farming!!
The tractor by itself does not farm anything; it merely provides the motive power for the farming implements (plough etc) attached to the tractor which do the farming .

I was right; the CCP has not yet written it into the syllabus for its school-children.

Also guessing ur teacher never taught you not to insult other people with nation's politics or ethnic issue?

Moreover, the main function of tractors in China are to provide motive power for farming tools and mechanics, sometimes rural area material transports, Chinese law prohibits many other tractor uses, such as carrying passengers or entering most of the cities, because it may be not safe and too noisy. This doesn't mean we don't know what tractors can do, just mean we know to the best how well can a tractor do it. Indeed, a tractor is good at towing a plow or a trans-planter in crop fields, but apparently not an optimized solution for towing an aircraft.

 

[Shinigami]

Good analysis, but there are a few points that you have missed in the estimation of tractor operation in rough sea condition, the first is resonance, random sea consists of waves with a range of different frequencies, each component of wave frequency will have an impact on the motion of any floating body one it, in this case, the heave, sway, surge, pitch, yaw and roll motion forms a very complicated 6-DOF motion pattern of the carrier, if any of the motion frequency gets close to the intrinsic frequency of the tractor, the tractor would experience much larger angular motion magnitude than the carrier itself (considering the suspension response, this will even deteriorate), untill it falls. Remember, before the tractor is tipped sideways, it is already unusable, or very inefficient. Aircraft is generally more stable than tractors due to its larger ground support triangular. Think about that it is not the aircraft that slows you down, but your tractor, this is it.

One more thing is: deck wind is a good matter, don't underestimate it, even tho it alone cannot tip the tractor, but in dynamic situation anything happens.

i am not an expert in the area but let me try to understand you.
so basically, you are saying that if the deck frequency coincides with the suspension frequency resulting in resonance, causes unstability in the tractor. true, but then the deck frequency of an AIRCRAFT CARRIER will always be much lower than the suspension frequency, am i right? so the two can coincide only at long intervals making this no problem at all. isnt it?
also like i said earlier flight ops cannot be done during such conditions rendering the ability to counter such a problem moot.

 

[Azazel]

that explains how far india advanced

Advanced enough for your country to buy our decommissioned naval vessels.

 

[neytirilover]

i am not an expert in the area but let me try to understand you.
so basically, you are saying that if the deck frequency coincides with the suspension frequency resulting in resonance, causes unstability in the tractor. true, but then the deck frequency of an AIRCRAFT CARRIER will always be much lower than the suspension frequency, am i right? so the two can coincide only at long intervals making this no problem at all. isnt it?
also like i said earlier flight ops cannot be done during such conditions rendering the ability to counter such a problem moot.

I assume that you are unaware about the concept of "N-th order harmonics", the base intrinsic frequency (first order harmonic) of a carrier is definitely lower than that of a tractor, but the 2nd or higher harmonics or subharmonics can approach the frequency of the tractor, this causes superharmonic or subharmonic resonance. Anyway, no point resolving more about the resonance details, just imagine that the tractor is less efficient just because its too shaky for the driver on top of it~lol~

 

[djsjs]

no doubt that Vikramaditya is far better.compared to heavily armed Vikramaditya ,our Liaoning is just a training ship.
so don't worry.

 

[neytirilover]

i am not an expert in the area but let me try to understand you.
so basically, you are saying that if the deck frequency coincides with the suspension frequency resulting in resonance, causes unstability in the tractor. true, but then the deck frequency of an AIRCRAFT CARRIER will always be much lower than the suspension frequency, am i right? so the two can coincide only at long intervals making this no problem at all. isnt it?
also like i said earlier flight ops cannot be done during such conditions rendering the ability to counter such a problem moot.

ahh, one more bullshit to add, the frequency of the carrier is not just its intrinsic frequency, but also the frequency of the excitement, including non-linear infra-gravity wave and its diffraction; the higher-frequency structural flexible deformation (less significant of course), etc. Factors are countless, things are going to happen~I know that making a very stiff suspension helps relieve this problem, but since you have specially designed the suspension, why not just make it a little bot lower?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I assume that you are unaware about the concept of "N-th order harmonics", the base intrinsic frequency (first order harmonic) of a carrier is definitely lower than that of a tractor, but the 2nd or higher harmonics or subharmonics can approach the frequency of the tractor, this causes superharmonic or subharmonic resonance. Anyway, no point resolving more about the resonance details, just imagine that the tractor is less efficient just because its too shaky for the driver on top of it~lol~

Because the 9th order harmonics raised to the 6th degree gets neutralised by the dyanamic range under the curve of statical stability it negates your contentention above.
The resetting moments created by the remaining water-plane area after allowing for parametric rolling still creates a sustantial righting lever. It is apparent that you have not understood that phenomenon. Lol.

 

[Indrajith]

Dear Please note that Viraat was completed and commissioned in 1959 as the Royal Navy's HMS Hermes and was transferred to India in 1987

Do you know some thing about Clarck Tractors -The US Navy started to use Clark tractors on its aircraft carriers since mid 1942. The Clarktor 6 -model tractors, already in service on USAAF airfields at the time, helped to tow and position aircraft on the carriers' busy flight decks and saw success in this role. These vehicles were in use on Lexington, Essex and Midway class carriers

 

[djsjs]

I assume that you are unaware about the concept of "N-th order harmonics", the base intrinsic frequency (first order harmonic) of a carrier is definitely lower than that of a tractor, but the 2nd or higher harmonics or subharmonics can approach the frequency of the tractor, this causes superharmonic or subharmonic resonance. Anyway, no point resolving more about the resonance details, just imagine that the tractor is less efficient just because its too shaky for the driver on top of it~lol~

wow....are you major in mechanics?

 

[isro2222]

@SEAL @Maleesh the indian AC will have western world technology from israel, usa, russia, france and uk.... Its idiotic when people compares semi-stealth omni role dassault rafale vs vintage F-16 which america gifts to poor countries and will replace with F-35.... Its idiotic when people compares su-30MKI vs cheap JF-17.... its idiotic when people compares indian AC which has western tech with cheap chinese junk AC.... just because you cant have superior western technology doesnt mean you compare it with cheap junk....

 

[neytirilover]

Because the 9th order harmonics raised to the 6th degree gets neutralised by the dyanamic range under the curve of statical stability it negates your contentention above.
The resetting moments created by the remaining water-plane area after allowing for parametric rolling still creates a sustantial righting lever. It is apparent that you have not understood that phenomenon. Lol.

It doesn't matter whether the harmonics excitement is below the statical stability curve or not, we don't need the ship to lose static stability to make some noise, and about the parametric rolling deformation, I already marked:insignificant. In large container ships, the parametric rolling may provide some restoring force for the hull, due to its sheer size that Viraat seems not to bear. Old way, restoring force cannot neutralize vibration.

 

[Maleesh]

@SEAL @Maleesh the indian AC will have western world technology from israel, usa, russia, france and uk.... Its idiotic when people compares semi-stealth omni role dassault rafale vs vintage F-16 which america gifts to poor countries and will replace with F-35.... Its idiotic when people compares su-30MKI vs cheap JF-17.... its idiotic when people compares indian AC which has western tech with cheap chinese junk AC.... just because you cant have superior western technology doesnt mean you compare it with cheap junk....

first tell me what technology you have brought from israel
is it technology or just some sams

 

[neytirilover]

wow....are you major in mechanics?

Not exactly,lol, for hydromechanics I'm just amateur level, my area is computational fluid dynamics, kinda dealing with the sea, lol~

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Not exactly,lol, for hydromechanics I'm just amateur level, my area is computational fluid dynamics, kinda dealing with the sea, lol~

And some other esoteric things too........

 

[neytirilover]

And some other esoteric things too........

Oh what? I'm trying to express my idea and fill this place with reasoning not bullshitting, what you can do? Elaborate that the tractor you used is some best solution?