Airbus A380 a Magnificient plane ideal for PIA

[Jf Thunder]

What do you want assembled? Pakistan Airlines can order Airbus whenever they want. It is upt to them to place the order.

i was talking bout concord

 

[Established_1965]

I had worked with SIA(Singapore Airlines) believe me, it's not an easy job to maintain an Airbus 380. We need various expertise and an extended runway.

Moreover, Pakistan is not a tourist destination or a Travellers hub to have A380. It's just irrelevant for Pakistan to have a A380.

If you see the list of countries with A380 mostly the Top 20, they are big time tourist hub and travellers stop.

Not but not the least, Pakistan doesn't have good infrastructures to host an A380

 

[liall]

New Mumbai Airport will have A380 finally I think it will be the best looking Airport terminal in South Asia at the least will post pictures on Friday when it is thrown open

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well flights are not just "Umra" flights

People go vacation all time, people say that passengers travel only 1 way and return flights are empty , well I asked you do passengers disappear no , who visits Pakistan from UK, US, Canada, Australia they have to return , they but 2 way ticket most of time

And if the prices are low due to availability of seats chances are more people will travel

 

[imiakhtar]

Comfort , Luxury and Elegance the plane is ideal for Pakistan International Airlines

full of Luxury and elegance what every Pakistani passenger deserves traveling on long flights

PIA caters to a leisure VFR (visiting family relations) market which is typically price sensitive. PIA pax are not going to pay a premium for the luxury.

And best of all it has a range of 16,000 km

The range you quoted is the max pax load. As soon as you add cargo, the range drops quickly. Realistically, an A380 can only carry max payload to 6000nm or 11000km.

has a better Passenger:Fuel ratio

I've never heard airlines use this metric before.

Does PIA have this much cash? Or the passengers to keep these flights going?

PIA definitely does not have the cash. They struggled to pay the lease costs of the A320 they've just agreed to lease.

Pakistan - Egypt / Libya / Algeria/ Nigeria

Non of these markets justify a 777.

FYI only the upcoming Islamabad airport's runway would be able to handle the A380.

Runway length is not an issue for the A380. She needs less runway than the 777 and 747.

Cost of the plane is $400,000,000 Million

Make that $414 million list price.

With some haggling you could get it down to $240 million.

If PIA does negotiate with Airbus to reduce the range

That wouldn't be necessary.

Airbus already offers a reduced TOW A380 with a max range of 4000nm for medium haul routes.

increase its payload to some where 1000 passenger

The A380 is limited to 850 pax. This is due to pax emergency exit limitations, not payload constraints.

build wider and stronger runways

The A380 can operate without issue off the standard 45m wide runways present at many Pak airports. Why does the A380 needs stronger runways when the 77W has a higher PCN and can operate from most Pakistani runways without issue?

we would have to consider other stuff such as handling charges, landing charges

For which the current formulas are working. Remember, Emirates, Singapore, Thai, Lufthansa, Malaysian A380s cross the Lahore and Karachi FIR on a daily basis.

insurance

Handled as per usual by international brokers. No issue.

Pakistan does not offer alcohol on its flights so we can not have many foreigners travelling on the flights.

Most non muslims I know aren't alcoholics. They can handle hours without drinks.

A long haul flight typically is considered to be profitable after 16hrs of flight so if this aircraft has to land at half the distance it is not economical.

This is incorrect. Long haul flying is extremely expensive. There are no rules of thumb flight durations after which a flight becomes profitable.

PIA replaced the order of B777-200LR to B777-200ER.

No they didn't.

PIA would be better off procuring 2 more B777-200LR and fly to Australia or increase the flights to other cities of Canada

No they wouldn't.

PIA requires to replace the Boeing 747-300s which can be be done with B777-300 or B777-300ER to fly the umrah and hajj flights.

For which they have rightly ordered 5 77Ws.

The Airport modification is a no issue

This is Pakistan, not Sparta.

At this moment, PIA needs more long haul planes and B777 suits them very well.

Short haul (A310 and 737) replacements should be a priority.

we need a-321 in numbers right now. nothing else

Yes.

A380 HGW can be really profitable in an all economy configuration for PIA on Hajj and Umrah flights.

As I said, PIA wouldn't need an A380HGW for hajj/umrah. A 490t MTOW would suffice. See below for simple numbers:

Operating empty weight: 277t
Max Zero Fuel Weight: 373t
Max landing Weight: 395t

According to PIA pax balance numbers, they use 100kg/pax. Therefore, 850 pax at max pax load would be 85t of payload. 277+85= 362t giving 11t cargo. The A380 could flying anywhere from pak-jed with a take off weight around 440-450t.

extended runway.

Wrong again.

Why would the A380 need longer runways at Changi when SQ B744s could take off at MTOW for Europe and still use flex/derate thrust on 30C days. The a380 has better field length performance than the 747 too.

Hell, British Airways managed to fly MTOW with the weakest RB211-524G and still use reduced thrust takeoffs from Changi.

Get it into your head folks, Big aeroplane does not = big runway.

A380 runway performance at MTOW. Rolls Royce T970 engines. ISA + 15C day.

 

[FaujHistorian]

From the worlds 2nd best airline..(Asias best at no.1) now ... "0"...

We were number 1 when we had a HUGE American base in Pakistan.

We kicked out Americans from Pakistan

They went to UAE/Qatar

And now their airlines are number 1

It is not that difficult to find the correlation.

 

[Finer]

This is good move. Airbus A380 is desperately needed especially a flight from Toronto to Islamabad. That flight takes more than 15 hours to get there. A lack of space on PIA 777 doesn't help either. This is good, a lot of space and easier to breath freely and comfortably. Airbus A380 should be bought as soon as possible. There is no way i can handle 16 hours flight in crowded space.

 

[airmarshal]

PIA closing its offices everywhere.

PIA ticket price is the highest of the few options to fly to Pakistan from North America or anywhere else. It has the worst service and its planes fly half empty on highest revenue generating destinations of USA and Canada.

PIA has been eaten away from inside like termites by this rampant corruption and cronysim of PPP and now PMLN.

A miracle will bring a clean government to clean up the mess in PIA first, improving the structure of the airline to compete it well.

Even if PIA does buy A380, where will it fly when PIA is slowly becoming a regional airline. In fact Pakistan doesn't even have money to buy just one A380!

 

[SHAMK9]

Why would PIA need A380? Name any consistant route where PIA can carry in and out around 500-800 passengers in every flight? It will result only in more loss to PIA..

PIA uses 747's on domestic routes which can carry up to 500 passengers. These flights are always full.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

PIA needs to understand , people specially in western countries US, CANADA, UK and Europe or Japan love luxury too.
They have different needs & also having biggger plane with more seats means cheaper tickets so you could go twice to Pakistan as oppose to 1 trip per year

The demand is there if you go and try to book a flight you will see all the tickets are hard to find for flights

Specially in comfortable Business class , its not about "Awami express style service"

PIA need to understand the needs of customers

Some of us like to , travel with style and get properly serviced

We want that big plane !!

 

[crazyking]

When you take plane on lease the cost of purchase is reduced greatly however this plane pays for itself

Example Cost of the plane is $400,000,000 Million

Passenger Generated Revenue:
Capacity of plane is 800, and it makes 2 round trips per week

Lets take 1 Route Islamabad - New York @$1500 USD (Economy Class)
$2500 USD (Business Class)


Income Generated by First Class Business Class = 200 x $2500 = $500,000 USD
Income Generated By 1 Round Trip Economy Class = 600 x $1500 = $900,000 USD

Income Generated by 2 Round Trip = 2 x $1, 400,000 (1.4 Million) = 2,800,000 (2.8Million) USD
Income Generated in 1 Year by the plane/ Route (52 weeks) = $145 , 600, 000 Million

Baggage Generated Income:
Baggage Money , Pakistanis on average carry 5 Bags. If 3 bag are charged $20 each standard fee
Lets calculate extra fees generated

3 Extra Bags Fee $20 x 3 x 800 Passenger = $48,000 USD
2 Round Trips for plane = $96000 USD
52 Week schedule = $ 4992,000 (4.9 Million Dollars)

Net Income in 1 Year from Plane : $150 Million Dollars, in just three years the plane will almost pay for itself generating 396,000,000 Million USD dollars

+ Anything after that is pure profit


Note the Plane also has "Duty Free Shop Area" which can also generate Revenue. Encourage passengers to buy small gift in flight for passengers


Note these are Direct Flights (12 hours) , not like many others that stop over in unnecessary are making your trips last 24 hours long


Extra Revenue Generation, Using the surplus flying capacity to run 2 internal routes

Note the Capacity of the plane is 15,000 km
US - Islamabad route distance is 11 ,000 KM (Main Route)


>So its possible that the plane Could make a further drop / pick up inside Pakistan

Islamabad - Lahore (Extra Revenue Potential)
Lahore - Karachi (Extra Revenue Potential)
Karachi - Islamabad ( Islamabad to fly back to US)

Lets Assume , it loads 200 New passengers between Islamabad - Lahore

$500 USD x 200 = $100,000 USD (No return just one way)

Lets Assume , it loads 200 New passengers between Lahore - Karachi
$500 USD x 200 = $100,000 USD (No return just one way)

Karachi - Islamabad
$500 USD x 200 = $100,000 USD (Preparation for return trip from Islamabad- USA)
52 Weeks , 2 Times week x $300,000 USD =$31Million
3 Year = 93 Million USD

Big Picture:
3 Years US - Islamabad Route = $396 Million Dollars
3 Years Islamabad - Lahore - Karachi - Islamabad = $91 Million dollars

That is just return from 1 plane imagine 10 of these working for your PIA, After 3 years the 10 planes could generate 1.8 Billion USD revenue for PIA or Pakistan/ year. This would free up PIA from any debt past 4 years mark

Not only the plane has paid for itself but it is now generating revenue

10 , of these Magnificent planes could certainly return PIA to their rightful economy goals considering how much revenue they can generate for company on Long routes and combined with local trips in one Refuel


10 Year plane , with 10 A380 operational, 10 planes are purchased by Financing by PIA thru Bank, government helps with financing of 10 planes

Year 1 : Each of 10 planes is paying for itself (No Gain but customer happiness)
Year 2 : Each of 10 planes is paying for itself (No Gain but customer happiness)
Year 3 : Each of 10 planes is paying for itself (No Gain but customer happiness)
Year 4 : You generate 1.8 Billion Profit (Election Year good to show profit)
Year 5 : You generate 1.8 Billion Profit
Year 6 : You generate 1.8 Billion Profit
Year 7 : You generate 1.8 Billion Profit
Year 8 : You get 1.8 Billion Profit (2 Billion given to Pakistan Treasury)
Year 9 : You generate 1.8 Billion profit
Year 10: You generate 1.8 Billion profit
Year 11: You generate 1.8 Billion profit (PIA would get order 5 new planes)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
PIA generates 20 Billion US Dollars in 10 years by simply being more agressive

• At the end of 8th year PIA must return 2 Billion Dollars to Government of Pakistan for past assistance.

"The government could in turn use the 2.0 Billion from PIA and invest into Pakistan Railways , and purchasing 5,000 Locomotives from General Motors for 2 Million / engine and license production of engines TOT. This would solve the issue of Second institute of Pakistan , i.e Pakistan railways with out need for IMF bail out "

So with this plan by 2020 both PIA and Pakistan Railways would be Profitable
5,000 Locomotives would fix Pakistan Railways for 30 years
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the income only from A380 , 10 routes

Dear Sir/Madam,

With this logic if you run any company I am sure you will floor it to ground in less than a year.

• Looks like in your calculations somehow A380 will magically fly without fuel
• No consideration for more than 50% of the price of ticket that goes in as taxes
• Magically all the ground support crew and inflight crew will work without taking any money.

It reminded me of my day dreaming (on a bored day) with what if scenarios

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

New planes take "less fuel" carry more, and also government could help finance fuel cost for 1 year untill customer base sets up for plane

Airlines have a budget for ground crew etc from collective profits of all planes in inventory

• Any taxes are collected seperately (Airport tax, security tax etc blah blah)

Also it's COMMON SENSE ... bigger plane , new seats , more comfort and more people would travel

More seats may result ins better price for customers

Pakistanis would seek to travel MORE with cheaper flights to Pakistan vs 1 real expensive trip once a year.

Business is for dreamers , ones who can't dream ^_^ they take "bail outs" from government

I mean the plane offers comfort on the long flights

PIA needs to realize , either upgrade with time or be forgotten in time

To be Number 1 you have to make BOLD MOVES ...


One more thing PIA never reports in USD figures and it uses special accounting figures in rupees to confuse all its figures but when you actually use dollar figures you realize they make billions in dollars but it vanishes nicely

I never seen PIA airline booking "empty" always hard to find tickets .. go ahead try to find a last minute flight to Pakistan always will end up searching or flights all booked message


Simply saying Alhamdulilah , we are good with

Is not bold !! PIA needs fresh BOLD people, you know fresh 24 year old or 30 year olds who still believe and can dream , with guidance from Older folks (only guidance not hindrance)


This is how PIA makes decisions, oh allah we can't buy new plane we will buy old used ones with approximately same price too as new planes

Yes you are loosing money because you do not buy 10-15 planes to increase you revenue base

They need bold policies and Agression like Lion

The only difference between any other "SUCCESSFUL" airline and PIA is the other groups are "AGRESSIVE" they think more planes more people more MONEY ...

PIA policy is "barely enough" planes and congested seating and awami express mentality


PIA should put all Assets as Collateral !!! all 30 planes , and get Loan for 10 A380 from International banks !!! THAT IS AGRESSION - THAT IS DO OR DIE , give IMF finger and say we will buy our own planes and put our plane fleet as collateral , its your assets you can put it collateral and get Large Loans !!! That is how banks work

And tell all workers next 5 years either you work really hard with new 10 planes and turn it around or company gets sold to bank which gave you loan


All international airlines are placing orders, PIA is sitting back eating penuts

 

[crazyking]

New planes take "less fuel" carry more, and also government could help finance fuel cost for 1 year untill customer base sets up for plane

Airlines have a budget for ground crew etc from collective profits of all planes in inventory

• Any taxes are collected seperately (Airport tax, security tax etc blah blah)

Also it's COMMON SENSE ... bigger plane , new seats , more comfort and more people would travel

More seats may result ins better price for customers

Pakistanis would seek to travel MORE with cheaper flights to Pakistan vs 1 real expensive trip once a year.

Business is for dreamers , ones who can't dreak they take "bail outs" from government

I mean the plane offers comfort on the long flights

PIA needs to realize , either upgrade with time or be forgotten in time

To be Number 1 you have to make BOLD MOVES ...


One more thing PIA never reports in USD figures and it uses special accounting figures in rupees to confuse all its figures but when you actually use dollar figures you realize they make billions in dollars but it vanishes nicely

I never seen PIA airline booking "empty" always hard to find tickets .. go ahead try to find a last minute flight to Pakistan always will end up searching or flights all booked message


Simply saying Alhamdulilah , we are good with

Is not bold !! PIA needs fresh BOLD people


This is how PIA makes decisions, oh allah we can't buy new plane we will buy old used ones with approximately same price too as new planes

Yes you are loosing money because you do not buy 10-15 planes to increase you revenue base

They need bold policies and Agression like Lion

The only difference between any other "SUCCESSFUL" airline and PIA is the other groups are "AGRESSIVE" they think more planes more people more MONEY ...

PIA policy is "barely enough" planes and congested seating and awami express mentality


PIA should pull all Assets as Collateral !!! all 30 planes , and get Loan for 10 A380 from International banks !!! THAT IS AGRESSION - THAT IS DO OR DIE

And tell all workers next 5 years either you work really hard with new 10 planes and turn it around or company gets sold to bank which gave you loan


All international airlines are placing orders, PIA is sitting back eating penuts

Here you go, if haven't seen an airline ticket
Date Departure Arrival Flight Duration Cabin
Tue 4 Feb 21:20Chicago, O'Hare International 13:10 +1 Munich

LH435 28h35 Economy (L)
Wed 5 Feb 21:45Munich 15:55 +1 Shanghai , Pudong International

LH726 Economy (L)
Mon 17 Mar 23:45Shanghai, Pudong International 05:10 +1 Munich

LH727 27h10 Economy (K)
Tue 18 Mar 08:00Munich 09:10 Frankfurt

LH095 Economy (K)
Tue 18 Mar 10:35Frankfurt 13:55 Chicago , O'Hare International

LH430 Economy (K)
Total Price
Fare
(per person) Taxes, fees and carrier charges
(per person) Passengers Total
800.00 + 755.71 x 1 Adult = $ 1555.71
Total Price for all passengers = $ 1555.71

 

[bandit]

Here you go, if haven't seen an airline ticket
Date Departure Arrival Flight Duration Cabin
Tue 4 Feb 21:20Chicago, O'Hare International 13:10 +1 Munich

LH435 28h35 Economy (L)
Wed 5 Feb 21:45Munich 15:55 +1 Shanghai , Pudong International

LH726 Economy (L)
Mon 17 Mar 23:45Shanghai, Pudong International 05:10 +1 Munich

LH727 27h10 Economy (K)
Tue 18 Mar 08:00Munich 09:10 Frankfurt

LH095 Economy (K)
Tue 18 Mar 10:35Frankfurt 13:55 Chicago , O'Hare International

LH430 Economy (K)
Total Price
Fare
(per person) Taxes, fees and carrier charges
(per person) Passengers Total
800.00 + 755.71 x 1 Adult = $ 1555.71
Total Price for all passengers = $ 1555.71

Dear Sir, I request you not to hurt our esteemed members feeling by you logical points.

Further you are grossly unaware of the South asian culture so do not poke your nose here.

In Pakistan airlines do not need fuels, nobody pays taxes how dare the airlines, and last but not the least , the crew members only take charas as their payment.

This member is gonna be an awesome manager for an airline, he can fly 20 of these planes high in the air at the same time without fuels, staff and taxes just by smoking charas;; as he probably is now.

 

[UK_CRAZY_PATHAN]

PIA id broke cant even afford fuel
lol

A380 never gonna happen,
plus Pak Gov most likely but boeing cuz they like to lick american ***