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Air force gets US planes minus security net

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SUJAN DUTTA

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Air force gets US planes minus security net

A C-130J Super Hercules
New Delhi, Aug. 2: The Indian Air Force has contracted six aircraft for the special forces for $1 billion without military-grade secure equipment because Washington denied the technology after New Delhi refused to sign a communications secrecy pact.

The air force is now in the process of contracting another 10 very heavy strategic airlifters under the same technology-denial regime for an estimated $3 billion.

India contracted six C-130J Super Hercules in 2007 and the first of these aircraft is likely to be delivered by January 2010 ahead of schedule by its maker, Lockheed Martin, under a government-to-government foreign military sales programme.

One of the scenarios in which the Hercules (“Hercs” for short) is to be used involves inserting special airborne troops (paratroopers) by flying into hostile territory where an adversary can try to intercept and/or jam electronic communication.

“We are aware that some of the equipment we desire may not be available. But it is up to us to use the platform the way we want to with modifications once we have it,” a senior air force officer told The Telegraph.

A US defence official told this newspaper “anything that requires encryption, which includes military-grade global positioning systems (GPS)” will not be mounted on the C-130J or the C-17 Globemaster III (made by Boeing) because India has not yet signed the Communications Inter-Operability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA).

The CISMOA was proposed by the Pentagon to the Indian defence ministry in 2006. A standard text for another crucial agreement, the End-User Monitoring Arrangement, was agreed last year after more than three years of negotiations.

A secure GPS is indispensable for mobile military platforms that are designed to track targets in all-weather and all-time circumstances.

“The military GPS system is encrypted and thus not available without a communications agreement,” the US defence official said. He claimed that “US military equipment is designed utilising the best systems available, such as military-grade GPS, which is more accurate and less likely to be spoofed (intercepted) than civilian GPS”.

Asked if there was any way India could access the equipment without signing the CISMOA, he replied “there is no way around this”. He said the CISMOA would apply to the proposed sale of the C-17 also. Trials for the aircraft were completed last month and the Indian Air Force has decided to buy i
t.

The four-engine turbo-prop Hercs — a workhorse for the US military — is a “tactical airlifter” with a payload capacity of 20 tonnes or about 120 fully-equipped airborne troops capable of landing on dirt strips and with short take-off and landing capability.

The giant C-17 jet is also rugged but capable of flying much longer distances with much heavier payloads. The Indian Air Force has projected a dire need for these two different classes of aircraft because its Russian/Soviet-origin aircraft are outdated.

The air force is set to order six more Hercs in addition to the six already contracted. The Coast Guard and the Border Security Force are also in line to acquire two Hercs each.

The Hercs are to be based at Hindon, just east of Delhi, where the Indian Air Force base is being refurbished. The Hercs for India have been modified for special missions and are equipped with an infrared detection set for low-level flying in adverse conditions.

Although the communications systems would not have the desired level of security for the Indian Air Force, an official said that India was getting the Hercs with the configuration it wants. They will have self-protection and mid-air refuelling ability. The Hercs is in service in 10 countries.
 
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Another factor to take into account with the F-16 and F-18 MMRCA.

There is no way USA will give encrypted stuff and source codes......
 
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Another factor to take into account with the F-16 and F-18 MMRCA.

There is no way USA will give encrypted stuff and source codes......
True, but that will lower their chances only, because in the MMRCA we have more options than in the transport aircraft field, where the US offers the best at the moment.
 
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And why dont we sign the communication secrevy pact?
Because obviously there are certain limitations that limit our forces' autonomy. Do you think the selection committee would have not read the entire clause?

I think by now those fellow Indians praying for F/A-18SH and F-16IN should realize what it means to buy top end defense stuff from American companies:

Be under the thumb and still pay high money.
 
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True, but that will lower their chances only, because in the MMRCA we have more options than in the transport aircraft field, where the US offers the best at the moment.
Not really. The Airbus A400M would have been a good choice. Russia is bringing a newer version of An-124 Ruslan with STOL, digital flight control system and cockpit and other required stuff. Ask that Russian ptlM3 Russian guy on PDF. He has all the details.

We could have waited for the Ruslan.

Besides, the moral of this story from their POV is: You want our stuff, you do it our way. No matter what the price whether high or low, you gotta do what we prefer. Or else scram.
 
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SUJAN DUTTA

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Air force gets US planes minus security net

A C-130J Super Hercules
New Delhi, Aug. 2: The Indian Air Force has contracted six aircraft for the special forces for $1 billion without military-grade secure equipment because Washington denied the technology after New Delhi refused to sign a communications secrecy pact.

The air force is now in the process of contracting another 10 very heavy strategic airlifters under the same technology-denial regime for an estimated $3 billion.

India contracted six C-130J Super Hercules in 2007 and the first of these aircraft is likely to be delivered by January 2010 ahead of schedule by its maker, Lockheed Martin, under a government-to-government foreign military sales programme.

One of the scenarios in which the Hercules (“Hercs” for short) is to be used involves inserting special airborne troops (paratroopers) by flying into hostile territory where an adversary can try to intercept and/or jam electronic communication.

“We are aware that some of the equipment we desire may not be available. But it is up to us to use the platform the way we want to with modifications once we have it,” a senior air force officer told The Telegraph.

A US defence official told this newspaper “anything that requires encryption, which includes military-grade global positioning systems (GPS)” will not be mounted on the C-130J or the C-17 Globemaster III (made by Boeing) because India has not yet signed the Communications Inter-Operability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA).

The CISMOA was proposed by the Pentagon to the Indian defence ministry in 2006. A standard text for another crucial agreement, the End-User Monitoring Arrangement, was agreed last year after more than three years of negotiations.

A secure GPS is indispensable for mobile military platforms that are designed to track targets in all-weather and all-time circumstances.

“The military GPS system is encrypted and thus not available without a communications agreement,” the US defence official said. He claimed that “US military equipment is designed utilising the best systems available, such as military-grade GPS, which is more accurate and less likely to be spoofed (intercepted) than civilian GPS”.

Asked if there was any way India could access the equipment without signing the CISMOA, he replied “there is no way around this”. He said the CISMOA would apply to the proposed sale of the C-17 also. Trials for the aircraft were completed last month and the Indian Air Force has decided to buy i
t.

The four-engine turbo-prop Hercs — a workhorse for the US military — is a “tactical airlifter” with a payload capacity of 20 tonnes or about 120 fully-equipped airborne troops capable of landing on dirt strips and with short take-off and landing capability.

The giant C-17 jet is also rugged but capable of flying much longer distances with much heavier payloads. The Indian Air Force has projected a dire need for these two different classes of aircraft because its Russian/Soviet-origin aircraft are outdated.

The air force is set to order six more Hercs in addition to the six already contracted. The Coast Guard and the Border Security Force are also in line to acquire two Hercs each.

The Hercs are to be based at Hindon, just east of Delhi, where the Indian Air Force base is being refurbished. The Hercs for India have been modified for special missions and are equipped with an infrared detection set for low-level flying in adverse conditions.

Although the communications systems would not have the desired level of security for the Indian Air Force, an official said that India was getting the Hercs with the configuration it wants. They will have self-protection and mid-air refuelling ability. The Hercs is in service in 10 countries.
About that last part, I read in another thread that BEL has decided to install some communication security stuff on it or something like that. So I don't think we need to take this as a big hurdle.

Its not an AWACS and the entire reason why IAF went ahead subtracting the security maybe due to autonomy weighing more than the advantage the system offers.
 
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well this was expected,but their is not much to worry we can modify it according to our needs,once it arrive here,even after taking out some of its advantages,it is still better than what others produce
 
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True, but that will lower their chances only, because in the MMRCA we have more options than in the transport aircraft field, where the US offers the best at the moment.


F-18 and F-16 are still in sevice with USAF and USMC.

The fact that the succeeding versions of these aircraft build upon the same computer architecture, there is little chance if USA will give India the source codes. Maybe know-how and blue prints for structure and materials. Maybe blue-prints for sensors, but the details at micro-processor level will be secret.

Just like Pakistan-China sharing American technology fears, there will be India-Russia fears.


Just my 2 cents.

:cheers:
 
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F-18 and F-16 are still in sevice with USAF and USMC.

The fact that the succeeding versions of these aircraft build upon the same computer architecture, there is little chance if USA will give India the source codes. Maybe know-how and blue prints for structure and materials. Maybe blue-prints for sensors, but the details at micro-processor level will be secret.

Just like Pakistan-China sharing American technology fears, there will be India-Russia fears.


Just my 2 cents.

:cheers:
Well, there're certain things that US has to comply in order to win the tender. If it doesn't offer, the other 4 would.
 
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cant we fit the glonass or irnss once developed into this plane????
 
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How will IAF fly it without military grade GPS unless of course IAF plans on using inertial navigation.
 
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How will IAF fly it without military grade GPS unless of course IAF plans on using inertial navigation.

Why...were not aircrafts flying before Navstar came in to orbit...besides the non military(Civilian use ie. P code) Gps has CEP of 30 mtr ..which is more than enough for transport aircraft.
 
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And why dont we sign the communication secrecy pact?

Read on

well this was expected,but their is not much to worry we can modify it according to our needs,once it arrive here,even after taking out some of its advantages,it is still better than what others produce

cant we fit the glonass or irnss once
developed into this plane????

This is why we don't sign the pact.

we have option , if we signed all the pacts we are not allowed to mod the aircraft.

Once the Planes get here however , we can mount as many of our own systems as we like.

After checking all the planes for Trojans and such.

All we are really missing is Communication and data encryption systems.

We can always replace them with our own.

How will IAF fly it without military grade GPS unless of course IAF plans on using inertial navigation.

Not every one has access to the Military grade GPS signal.
Ask your self how many PAF aircraft or even PLAAF aircraft use Military grade GPS.

Mostly the Civilian version is used.

except China has their own regional GPS

India and Russia Share GLONASS

India has IRNSS


Why...were not aircrafts flying before Navstar came in to orbit...besides the non military(Civilian use ie. P code) Gps has CEP of 30 mtr ..which is more than enough for transport aircraft.

PLus we have GLONASS and IRNSS.

We need to Install receivers and equipment for them, something we can't do if we sign the PAct
 
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