Air Force chief says French fighter jet deal close

[Viper0011.]

A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. We are not closet US allies to pre-order planes like pizzas.

You should try, what do you have to lose....?? It'll be "some" of our money given to you coming back...

I m also supporting F35 if US also sale air launched PAC3 missile with it, after seeing this video
F-35 DAS and APG-81 radar for the JSF detect multiple rocket launche

If you really want to, try becoming a partner and then ask for SM (Standard Missile) 2 or 3 integration. In fact, I think you guys are buying Israeli missile interceptors; so those in the future will integrate with the -35 too.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Actually they have an engine, the RM12 (even if it's based on the GE 404), more importantly they have the know how that we lack, be it in engine and radar developments or even fighter design. What they lack is the demand in numbers, the political support and power, as well as the money to do it all alone. Things that we could had provided!
Brazil is now taking advantage of exactly that, they use the know how base of the Gripen and the Swedes to create their own fighter developments. Be it designing the twin seater or naval varient (similar to what we might do in FGFA), by adding own weapons and systems and in mid to long term maybe even integrating an own engine. All fundend by Brazil and for the Brazilian demand, based and supported by Swedish know how!

The Gripen E (AKA Gripen NG) will not use a Swedish Engine, even if such engines are available.
SAAB is participating in many European missile development programs like Meteor.
As for money, it is just a matter of priority.
We recently increased the order for Gripen-E from 60 to 70, and went ahead disregarding the Swiss setback.
The plan to rebuild Gripen C/D is scrapped, so they will all be new.

Slovakia seems to be the next customer for maybe a dozen.
Most likely lease of Gripen C/Ds.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

This is one of the best post on the subject. This would be a smart decision for India actually. Uncle Sarkozy is milking you guys with Rafale deal, phew, $ 110 Mil per plane!!

(01) It's been 2 years since Sarkozy left - neither the MMRCA competition was concluded during his tenure nor anything relevant to the deal was finalized during his tenure.....

(02) The that supposed "$110 million per Jet" deal includes -
- Meteor BVR Missiles
- MICA BVR Missiles
- SCALP Cruise Missiles
- Exocet anti ship missiles
- Brimstone ATGM
- JDAM kits

(03) RBE2 AESA Radar was the safest bet for the IAF to go with

why RBE2 aesa radar was the safest bet for india in MMRCA evaluations

(04) F-35 Naval Variant can be considered for the IN but for the IAF it stands no chance - complete waste of resources - it doesn't fulfill the requirements of the IAF's MMRCA!

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You have some points, but that doesn't fit though. Russia still shows the skills to develop high techs (no doubt about that), but doesn't have the money to operate such a large force and defence industry as in Soviet times, which is why Indian money is desperately needed, but also why not all the development will find it's ways to Russian military today. The fact that they are now buying Su 30SMs, although they developed Su 34s and 35s for dedicated requirements of the Russian forces, that they buy Mig 29SMTs and not the newly developed Mig 35, or even that they buy the Mig 29K because IN largely funded development and production and shows the lack of money. You can also add the fact, that the government in recent years started to go away from Russian industry and tried to form JVs and co-developments, to get the joint fundings they need to develop and sucessfully produce the products. Be it S1000 sub with Italy, IFVs with France, or even the desperate try to get Brazil on board of the Pak Fa development, all aimed on counter the problems Russian defence industry and Russian forces faces today.

India needs Russia as a reliable defence partner, but Russia also needs India as a reliable market for their defence and energy industry and today even as a political support! So it's a win win for both sides, if things goes smoothly!

A couple of years ago, the head of the Russian Army wanted to buy Leopard Tanks,
and stop buying the Russian crap.

 

[Viper0011.]

(01) It's been 2 years since Sarkozy left - neither the MMRCA competition was concluded during his tenure nor anything relevant to the deal was finalized during his tenure.....

(02) The that supposed "$110 million per Jet" deal includes -
(03) RBE2 AESA Radar was the safest bet for the IAF to go with
(04) F-35 Naval Variant can be considered for the IN but for the IAF it stands no chance - complete waste of resources - it doesn't fulfill the requirements of the IAF's MMRCA!

The Sarkozy comment was a rhetoric comment made in a funny way. The 110 Mil with the list you gave me, is still super expensive to be honest.
RBE2 was the best option from the list of jets you guys were given, the -16 and -18 are really starting on AESA so I can understand the reasoning.
I think there the -35 Naval and for the IAF makes sense. You guys get twin engine jets for the IAF as the higher tier so from that standpoint, PakFa would make sense but the -35 outclasses everything else out there in IAF's arsenal.

 

[rockstarIN]

Thats why I am saying "Buy SAAB" not "buy Gripen"..

Can't TATA or some other company take over this 'SAAB'? since we can allow even 49 to 100% foreign investments depending upon technical terms?

 

[DejanSRB]

A couple of years ago, the head of the Russian Army wanted to buy Leopard Tanks,
and stop buying the Russian crap.

It was a joke between Russian general Antonov and German generel when they have a meeting in Kalingrad district,the Germans "offered" to Russians Leopard Tanks,and Russians "offered" to Germans new Russian submarines.

 

[sancho]

Mate,I am not a military expert like you

I am far away from being an expert and am only saying, that one has to differ between Soviet Union and Russia...

- military in Soviet Union and military in Russia
- defence budget in Soviet Union and defence budget in Russia
- defence development in Soviet Union and defence development in Russia
- defence export in Soviet Union and defence export in Russia

And then you see the difference between the military Superpower Soviet Union and the military power Russia, that might still have the numbers on paper, but can't afford to maintain, develop or even produce arms in the same manner like in the past.

You can even take Indian procurements as an example, we bought an Akula SSN, that was half build, because the Russians didn't had the money to complete it. We bought a carrier that was not repaired, because the Russians didn't had the money to repair and operate it and so on.

Politically we are on the same page, since I said that the US is the only current Superpower, but wrt defence again, China is becoming the next big thing and that's what's making everybody so nervous, be it Japan, US, India or even Russia.

Not sure that SAAB is for sale.

It isn't, that was just a hypothetical scenario

The Gripen E (AKA Gripen NG) will not use a Swedish Engine, even if such engines are available.

I never said it would, only that the current Gripen has a the RM12 and therefor Sweden has the engine know how, that could had been useful for India / the Kaveri development in a partnership.

As for money, it is just a matter of priority...

=>

...Slovakia seems to be the next customer for maybe a dozen. Most likely lease of Gripen C/Ds.

As I said, Sweden can't afford to operate such a large fleet and that's why Gripen C/Ds are desperately offered for 2 nd hand sales or leasing contracts (just as they were offered to India too).

 

[DejanSRB]

You can even take Indian procurements as an example, we bought an Akula SSN, that was half build, because the Russians didn't had the money to complete it. We bought a carrier that was not repaired, because the Russians didn't had the money to repair and operate it and so on.

It is becouse we Slavs(Russians,Poles,Serbs,Croats...) are generaly not so reliable trading partners or partners at all compering to Germans,Chinese or Americans,we simpy sometimes dont respect our customers.
That is why Russia lose Indian market to Americans.Russians simply give priority to its defense instead to interest of customers.

I just read in russian a full interview of Sergey Shoigu,and he is man of honor,one of most populars and respected in Russia.
He says:
"Our military reforms go in right directions,by end od 2020,we will spend more then 700 billion dollars on defense industry,and our military will be top notch in terms of tecnology,latest technology like S400,PAK fa,Pantsir,new Armada platform,Msta artillery,SU35,new submarines will fill more then 70% of our entire military power."

Simply Russia will always be superb military power.
It was in 17 century it was in 20 century it will be for entire 21 century.

and I just to thank you for debate with arguments and respect.

 

[sancho]

It is becouse we Slavs(Russians,Poles,Serbs,Croats...) are generaly not so reliable trading partners or partners at all compering to Germans,Chinese or Americans,we simpy sometimes dont respect our customers.
That is why Russia lose Indian market to Americans.Russians simply give priority to its defense instead to interest of customers.

That's not the case in the relation between Russia and India! Neither is Russia losing anything to the US on the Indian defence market, since Russia is and will remain the biggest provider for arms. Nor would they not give importance to India as a customer, the fact that they are the only once that have changed their policies from a buyer - seller relationship, to a full 50:50 partnership level, the fact that they change their after sale support policies to keep attracting the Indian forces to buy Russian arms, the fact that they now even offer joint production of airliners or that India is the is allowed to customize Russian fighters and sell these Indian stuff also to other Mig 29 or Su 30 customers are clearly showing how high they regard India.
But India is an open market, where the Russians have to compete with a growing number of providers and with increasing demands. So their regard for the Indian market and their changes of policy are good steps, but they have to keep proving that they are the best choice for us.[/quote]

 

[Storm Force]

Dejan
Competition is fierce for Indian market which itself is huge .

I suspect by 2020 the Indian military budget will ve larger than any of major suppliers bar USA.

But India is a more demanding customer.

No buyer seller arrangements.

Tot joint production or we go to the others

 

[he-man]

That's not the case in the relation between Russia and India! Neither is Russia losing anything to the US on the Indian defence market, since Russia is and will remain the biggest provider for arms. Nor would they not give importance to India as a customer, the fact that they are the only once that have changed their policies from a buyer - seller relationship, to a full 50:50 partnership level, the fact that they change their after sale support policies to keep attracting the Indian forces to buy Russian arms, the fact that they now even offer joint production of airliners or that India is the is allowed to customize Russian fighters and sell these Indian stuff also to other Mig 29 or Su 30 customers are clearly showing how high they regard India.
But India is an open market, where the Russians have to compete with a growing number of providers and with increasing demands. So their regard for the Indian market and their changes of policy are good steps, but they have to keep proving that they are the best choice for us.

[/quote]

Is that statement a joke or what??

 

[C130]

Come on... SAAB will bring much more to the table then RAFALE.. Frankly I am not very optimistic about ToT for even FGFA.

elaborate what could Saab and Gripen possible offer more than Dassualt and Rafale can't.

Gripen is like LCA/F16 in performance can't compare to Rafale in performance.

it would be cheaper no doubt.

 

[indiatester]

I know difference between Serbia and Russia. You were supporting Russia in your posts, so i thought u were Russian.
Btw i was checking GDP growth rate of Russia , in 1st-quarter of 2014, their gdp growth rate was negative and @DejanSRB is dreaming about Russia helping India

Why are you trolling on Russia? Russia has been a great friend and continues to be.
Just because India has gotten a little better, does not mean that we can dump our old friends.

BTW Russia continues to help us in most of our critical endeavours.

 

[sancho]

Is that statement a joke or what??[/quote]

To make it short, an older post of mine:

Russia All set to lose the Indian defense market | Page 3