AHRC alleges Baloch women tortured and used as sex slaves

[qsaark]

Ok so you were unable to counter a single point raised by me in defence of the Kaptaan saab and now you shift poles?!!

A made-up story, not even presented let alone proven in a court of law, what is there to counter?

Anywaz, as per the Army regulations any offence committed by an Army personnel may be tried by the Army itself.

He was tried, a Court of Inquiry was held and he was found NOT GUILTY!

Again, as the Urdu proverb goes “Jungle mein mour naacha, kis ney dekha?”.

Now what i know of is that an FIR was registered as regards to this case and the Police proceedings have been concluded, if you think that was not the case feel free to come back to Pakistan and launch an application again against the dude?

Now when we have a 'free' judiciary and democratic govt why dont you just reopen the case?

All the evidences were destroyed within the three days of the crime; launch an application based on what evidence after all these years?

i wonder even in the times of Musharraf when the media was independent and bold, how could this issue remain under the carpet? i mean if mediums like Geo and likes have the guts to fight back just anything and post the most holiest of news, why did they keep quite? They have never spared a moment to malign the military, why would they keep their beaks shut then?

It was not under the carpet; several reporters and columnists wrote about it.

Even if they did, now as they have no pressure why dont they pick up the same old issue today, as now we see so much of Baloch talk now a days?

It is not me or anyone else who could decide that, it is the victim herself who has to take the initiative. After all these years, with the last trace of evidence destroyed, what is left to do?

 

[Xeric]

A made-up story, not even presented let alone proven in a court of law, what is there to counter?

Again, as the Urdu proverb goes “Jungle mein mour naacha, kis ney dekha?”.

All the evidences were destroyed within the three days of the crime; launch an application based on what evidence after all these years?

It was not under the carpet; several reporters and columnists wrote about it.

It is not me or anyone else who could decide that, it is the victim herself who has to take the initiative. After all these years, with the last trace of evidence destroyed, what is left to do?

Let me repeat your golden words: “Jungle mein mour naacha, kis ney dekha?”.

Can you prove it that no investigation was done and that the evidence was destroyed with three days (man you are precise!)?

If we go by your understanding then i think all of the investigations that involve military personnel must be fake!!

BTW, take some pain and go to thana Sui and get the copy of the fringing FIR!

And yes, you should take up the case again, as it is you who are more bothered about it then the victim herself!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is an old article and was posted in this forum once before.

Theres no proof, the writer is just reporting stories from BLA terrorists, who are fighting against Pakistani army and are spreading false accusations against the Pakistani army.

BLA's nonsense is the same as the Al Qaeda member who made a videotape saying ISI was responsible for the attacks on civilians in Pakistan's major cities.


Moderators please close this thread because it was already posted in this forum a while back and theres no proof regarding these allegations.

The member who started the thread was informed by me that the report is from January and was posted and discussed back then, and therefore his thread was being deleted - he chose to ignore that and re-post the thread..

He has been permanently banned since he blatantly ignored moderator warnings, and it is obvious from that behavior that his objective was to troll and flame, and not actually engage in discussion, since he would have found the initial thread, read through it and commented on that if discussion was his goal.

 

[abbasniazi]

Here is how i see this Thread.

India got one chance in the past to break up pakistan in 1971, here in balochistan they think they have another chance.

Before 1971 India Brain washed bangalis by propagating bangalism and same is being done in balochistan via India consulates on balochistan border.

India Trained and supplied arms to Mukti Bahini, same is being done with BNA and BLA.

India provoked bangalis with lies of rapes of bangali women by Pakistan army and same is being tried again in balochistan.

It was General A.A.K Niazi in 1971 and its some Major Iqrar Gul Niazi of Military Intelligence in this case.

It were Russia (directly) and USA(indirectly) who helped India achieve its objectives and this time its USA (Directly) and Russia (Indirectly) with addition of Israel and NATO.

India Chopped away our eastern limb in 1971 and now its trying to chop away our western limb.

To me its all the same, what has changed is the places of "Supporting Actors" and surgery Section direction.

 

[pak-marine]

Yes, that is precisely what I am saying; the case was never brought to the court because the accused was already declared innocent by the COAS of that time; the cloths and other articles were destroyed, and the victim was sedated for 3-4 days. An FIR was not allowed to file and the victim was forced to leave the country.

PA needs accountability big time they can get away with pretty much any thing You are absolutly right point is not if the army guy has done it or not! point is if he was accused of such thing why was this not tried in a civil court ?? What makes him or his general masters above the supreme law of Pakistan. if Armed forces are sorted Pak will sort other wise will stay forever the same!

 

[pak-marine]

abbasniazi;581907Here is how i see this Thread.
IN CAPS what you failed to see::

India got one chance in the past to break up pakistan in 1971, here in balochistan they think they have another chance.

WELL KNOW FACT IS BANGALIS WERE CLEAR MAJORITY THEY WERE NOT GIVEN THE RIGHTS THEY TOOK OFF , PAK WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME IF IT WAS INDIA. POINT IS WHY NO LESSIONS WERE LEARNT!?

Before 1971 India Brain washed bangalis by propagating bangalism and same is being done in balochistan via India consulates on balochistan border.

WHEN IT COMES TO MASSES YOU CANT BRAIN WASH THEM BUDDY .. THEY BELEIVE IN WHAT THEY SEE .. THERE WERE ATROCITIES COMMITED !

India Trained and supplied arms to Mukti Bahini, same is being done with BNA and BLA.
India provoked bangalis with lies of rapes of bangali women by Pakistan army and same is being tried again in balochistan.

WE GAVE INDIA THE OPPURTUNITY AND SAME IN BALUCHISTAN DONE!
It was General A.A.K Niazi in 1971 and its some Major Iqrar Gul Niazi of Military Intelligence in this case.

It were Russia (directly) and USA(indirectly) who helped India achieve its objectives and this time its USA (Directly) and Russia (Indirectly) with addition of Israel and NATO.
ALL WERE TO BE BLAMED EXCEPT PAKISTANIS AND THE ONE WHO WERE FIGHTING THE WAR

India Chopped away our eastern limb in 1971 and now its trying to chop away our western limb.

IF WE CARRY ON THE SAME PRACTICE MOST LIKLY THIS WILL HAPEN ! .

 

[pak-marine]

This is pure shame and these pakis call them self a Islamic state. No true muslim can ill treat a child or women. True beliver of Holy Quran and one and only Allah will give his life to safeguard a child or women moreover they are doing this to muslim girls...shame

you r loving the flame dont u !? listen dumbo dont blame pakistanis its an indivisual act go and google shameless acts and incidences in India :Muslims or hindu " you will find plenty for your entertainment

 

[qsaark]

Let me repeat your golden words: “Jungle mein mour naacha, kis ney dekha?”.

Yes, please repeat because these words are very important.

Can you prove it that no investigation was done and that the evidence was destroyed with three days (man you are precise!)?

Can you prove that any investigations were done? Can you show us jurisdiction?

If we go by your understanding then i think all of the investigations that involve military personnel must be fake!!

This was not a simple disciplinary matter; an officer was accused of raping a civilian woman. This was a simple criminal case that had to be tried in an open court of law, not some behind the door departmental court.

BTW, take some pain and go to thana Sui and get the copy of the fringing FIR!

And yes, you should take up the case again, as it is you who are more bothered about it then the victim herself!!

Every Muslim woman except for my wife is either my sister or daughter. If I feel pain for her, what is wrong? Since the evidence was readily destroyed, nothing can be done irrespective of how much pain I may be willing to take.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yakub Qureshi banned for derogatory comments against an ethnicity and trolling.

Rather disappointing to see a senior Indian member thanking such a post, but then again perhaps not that much of a surprise.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

PA needs accountability big time they can get away with pretty much any thing You are absolutly right point is not if the army guy has done it or not! point is if he was accused of such thing why was this not tried in a civil court ?? What makes him or his general masters above the supreme law of Pakistan. if Armed forces are sorted Pak will sort other wise will stay forever the same!

The PA as an institution has no interest in allowing murderers and rapists within its ranks go free - why would it? Soldiers are court martialled and dismissed over far lesser offenses, and an act of rape by a soldier, if proved, would be a major violation of discipline. Even if it did not want to publicize the incident, the guilty part would likely be tried and punished for its crimes.

The PA (and the nation) is also still scarred from the events of 1971. Even though the events of 1971, as narrated by the Indians and others, are deeply exaggerated (no millions were killed or hundreds of thousands raped) there were atrocities committed which represented a breakdown in discipline.

The scars and lessons of 1971 are why you see a different approach, as an institution, by the PA in Baluchistan and most recently Swat - an approach that emphasizes building relationships with the locals through development of infrastructure etc. in the areas where the PA has a presence.

That said, this is not so much an issue of 'holding the PA accountable' as much as it is about the systems and processes in place to deal with certain issues. The US military has used the military justice system to deal with US soldiers who have committed crimes as well - the issue is more about whether we want these trials to be public, how public, whether there should be exemptions and who has jurisdiction when there is an overlap of civilian and military.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So given this article linked to by Dabong, do we agree then that the Zarina Marri case appears to be fabricated and the thread has served its purpose and should be closed, and if not why not?

Debunking the Zarina Marri Lie​

Recently a lot has been written on an innocent woman being tortured and kept as a sex slave in the torture cells of Pakistan Army. A fairy tale legend “Zarina Marri” emerging out of the propaganda campaign being sponsored by RAW and few Pakistani brethren who are mistaken that they are somehow serving the cause of Balochi people.

• The tale of Mr Munir Mengal’s arrest and torture by Military Intelligence/ Army had been reported by media during his detention in 2006/07/08. However, re-emergence of said issue after a lapse of 10 months of his release from prison, at the time when Pakistan is already a target of Indian propaganda campaign (on acct of 26/11), is astonishing/ intriguing. Mr Munir Mengal has added spice to his tale alleging that a Baloch woman was offered as sex slave for reasons best known to him. The concocted story has attracted the attention of international media and human rights activists as expected. The whole affair appears to be a malicious campaign to malign the image of Pakistan and its Army/ intelligence agencies in particular.

• Allegation of using Zarina Marri as sex slave was first published by RSF web site on 11 Dec 2008. Same news was published on AHRC website on 12 Jan 2009. Subsequently various newspapers published the news each time with additional allegations without mentioning any source or credible evidence.

• Mr. Munir Mengal at present is apparently in France from where he is uploading articles on a free Web News Portal “NowPublic.com”. According to the website details, he is member of the said portal since Dec 2008 and has posted 4 venomous articles only after 3 Jan 2009 on various issues aimed at maligning Pakistan and Pakistan Army.

• Dr Shazia’s case which sparked the insurgency and counter military operation, occurred on 5/6 Jan 2006. Arrest of a school teacher by Law Enforcement Agencies prior to militancy and Operations by Law Enforcement Agencies is least likely.

DICHOTOMIES / QUESTIONS ARISING FROM THE STORY

• The sole source of information is Munir Mengal. No correspondent/ agency have bothered to counter check the details from other sources. The name of RSF’s reporter who claimed to have conducted an interview has not been revealed.

• The record of visitors of Khuzdar Jail does not have any entry to the effect that any ICRC representative met Mr Munir Mengal. Though a team of ICRC was granted permission to visit Khuzdar/ Mach and Loralai Jails from 30 Jul to 11 Aug 07, no record exist about the said visit to Khuzdar Jail. However, the record of Mach Jail contains entry of Mr Andrew’s visit which is irrelevant.

• According to the RSF report she is referred as a 23 years old school teacher from Kohlu, arrested by Law Enforcement Agencies in late 2005 and shifted to Karachi for use as sex slave by some Military Intelligence setup. Whereas as employees record of EDO Education Kohlu, no woman namely Zarina Marri ever existed in the area as school teacher.

• According to local Marri tribesmen in Kohlu, using name of a Marri woman is part of propaganda to humiliate Marri Clan. Some Marris’ are of the opinion the issue has been raised as a conspiracy to create unrest and insurgency in relatively calm and peaceful Marri areas and derail reconciliation process with Khair Buksh Marri.

• If at all she was arrested by FC or some intelligence agency, why she was shifted to Karachi for alleged use as sex slave? It is not only illogical but absurd as well.

• Mr. Munir Mengal has also made contradictory statements regarding his encounter with Zarina Marri:-
o He initially claims that the girl was thrown naked in the cell.
o Later (after few sentences) he states that when the Subedar returned and found them sitting apart, he torn their clothes.

• Marri Itehad has not conceded to Zarina Marri’s conspiracy and has announced that it is trying to find out the credentials of the said woman and her parents.

• On 4th Aug 07, he (Munir Mengal) was handed over to Khuzdar Police. Very next day, representatives of ICRC visited Khuzdar Jail and investigated the torture inflicted on Munir Mengal which is a surprising coincidence. ICRC representative Andrew Bartles-Smith’s credentials are also doubtful. He is a UK national settled in Nepal.

• He was detained in Khuzdar Jail for just eleven days. During this short time, he claims to have been visited several times by human rights activists while nobody met him in Quetta jail for almost six months.

• The initial news regarding detention and ill treatment of Mr. Munir Mengal was broken by RSF on 11 Dec 2008. The Daily Times broke the news in Pakistan with its edition edited on 11 Dec and published on 12 Dec i.e. with in few hours.

• The exaggerated version of said report was re-published by AHRC with a gap of 32 days on the AHRC website on 12 Jan 2009 without indicating any source for additional details. This dichotomy was also pointed out by Asma Jehangir ‘Chair Person HRCP’.

• Mr. Munir Mengal never had any article to his credit till 3 Jan 2009; to accredit him as a journalists’ status. However; since that date he has written 4 articles within two weeks, which may not be easy to digest and points to sponsorship. More so the spectrum and range of issues discussed in the articles is also pro Indian.

• The inclusion of following subsidiary themes in four articles attributed to Munir Mengal on the website “nowpublic.com” appearing after 3 Jan have strange similarity with Indian propaganda campaign against Pakistan. These propaganda themes are, ‘Islamic fundamentalism/ extremism’, Pak support for Taliban/ Al-Qaida, ‘Pak nuclear bomb threat to Christian and Jewish world’ and Anti Hindu sentiment.

• These coincidences suggest possible Indian involvement in propagating this issue ----
o The emergence of this scandal with in two weeks of Mumbai blast amidst threats from Indian leaders.
o Daily times which broke the news simultaneously along with RSF is well known for Indian sponsorship.
o AHRC which has taken up the issue has dubious credentials (leaning) and same has been alleged by HRCP’s Asma Jehangir.
o The similarity of views of Munir Mengal and Indian Propaganda Campaign.

• The activities of Mr. Andrew Bartles-Smith the much mentioned ICRC representative who allegedly visited Munir Mengal several times have neither been confirmed/ refuted by ICRC. Also, ICRC news and reports on the web do not have any mention of the said visits or disclosures.

• The credentials of RSF are also questionable as the site has never raised allegations against Indians in such a blunt manner in case of mishandling/ detention/ missing journalists e.g. Rehmat Ullah Indian Occupied Kashmir (published Daily Rehmat) and Maqbool Sahil are such cases in pt.

• The credibility of AHRC reports on Pakistan is also doubtful as three out of its ten members of advisory board are Indians, while one of the directors is also Indian with few others having Indian origin/ Hindus. Amongst the Indians Mr. B. R. P. Bhasker: Reputed Journalist and a Trustee of Vigil India Movement, India is of dubious credentials and suspected to have initiated/ sponsored said story on AHRC forum.

• The picture of Zarina Marri, uploaded on بلوچ گلزمین ءِ جارچین is also fake. The picture very clearly bears the name “Arash Khan” which is duly marked on the picture. It is suspected that the picture has been retrieved from some other site and subsequently uploaded as Zarina Marri.

• Why the initial Missing list of Marri ladies at “Baloch Voice” website never bore Zarina Marri’s name. However, in the recently updated list of 872 missing Balochis, three ladies ref at serial 74, 75 and 76 bear Shah Gul as father whereas their family names are different i.e Alia Khan, Maria Shah, and Zarina Marri. Surprisingly other two sisters of Zarina Marri are missing since 10 Oct 2006, whereas Zarina Marri is missing since 10 Oct 2005 i.e a yr prior, exactly on the same date, which clearly speaks of fabrications and falsehood of the concocted tale.

ZARINA MARRI CONSPIRACY

 

[TaimiKhan]

AM, there is no truth in this article, no one else has reported this article nor we have seen discussion on such topic by the Baloch Nationalist leaders on media where there is no censorship nor any restrictions to tell such things, clearly illustrating that this is a fabricated story with no proof.

It would be better to close this thread as no useful discussion has come out of 70+ posts.

Everyone is trying to settle a score one way or another.

 

[Awesome]

"the matter was inquired and investigated" where and by whom? Nice one-sided story but has it been proven in a court of law? That is what I mean by the 'transparency'. Only because someone had served in Sui proves nothing, nor does it give any legitimacy to the story made here. Since this story is coming from an Army officer and that too who has been involved (as per his own claim) in an operation against the Bugti tribes, there is clearly a conflict of interest that makes this story even more dubious. I can also create thousands of such stories; in fact countless story writers do the same and earn their living publishing stories and novels.

Xeric's credibility itself puts a lot of weight behind it. But on the other hand, I agree there should be transparency and things should be decided in courts.

Problem is that people have a tendency to become judge, jury and executioner. People are reporting this particular case as if it has been proven that a rape took place. The word 'allegedly' are missing.

 

[Awesome]

A made-up story, not even presented let alone proven in a court of law, what is there to counter?

Again, as the Urdu proverb goes “Jungle mein mour naacha, kis ney dekha?”.

All the evidences were destroyed within the three days of the crime; launch an application based on what evidence after all these years?

It was not under the carpet; several reporters and columnists wrote about it.

It is not me or anyone else who could decide that, it is the victim herself who has to take the initiative. After all these years, with the last trace of evidence destroyed, what is left to do?

Qsaark,

If there lacks any evidence, then that itself means not guilty. End of story. Or are you saying we should subscribe to lynch mob justice... Behcari k saath bohot bura hua toh kisi ko toh taang doh.

She was blindfolded while raped as admitted by her, she has no proof other than the officer's big daari that she felt. What proof was there to begin with? What has been destroyed?

Its very convenient in Pakistan to say that all proof has been destroyed.