Ahmedi community linked literature seized, printing press sealed

[Mamluk]

No I m not pretending .. my God , this is such a shame ! Islam ka Nam lena gunah ban gya ab yahan .

I was addressing @Hrk19 and his hindtuva bot coterie.

 

[marj666]

What are trying to say? please try to comprehend simple English and learn how to string together simple sentences.
You do not sound intellectually mature to me.

It is stupid to judge people by their user names and avatars, I bet in real life you judge people based on their looks. Calling names, throwing insults speak volume about your upbringing and moral bankruptcy, I do not wish to continue this debate with you as I don't intend to lower my level and you aren't worthy of a civil debate. Feel free to dwell in your ignorance.

Good one... Your inability to understand simple English is my fault , I will try to use one syllable words....... Read your past comments of your so called debate and then tell me who was riding the high horse of morality while belonging to a nation of Hypocrites....... As far as feelings go I thought you didn't mind some balls busting , my bad ,you biiiiig baby .... When people in Pakistan debate they use everything thing to bring the opponent down ... I guess on your side they take it slow.........

 

[hussain0216]

That's really weird logic if someone is jumping in a well will you do the same? and btw in the western world minorities are in a faaaaar more better position than Pak/Ind.
@Kaptaan

Things will change in the world including the west or especially the west

Why should Pakistan bust a gut trying to head in a direction which the world and the west is turning away from?

 

[Trango Towers]

We in Pakistan do not understand islam or our beloved propher pbuh. They are emotional about the defence of the faith yet tge faith doesn't need defending. What Muslims need to learn is what the prophet taught us. To be tolerant. To learn listen understand and educate. To often we just want to kill and smash heads yet our prophet pbuh tore down the walls of the heart by his kindness and engagement. I say to you all humbly do what your prophet did with the kuffar. Do not follow the idiot mullahs and stupid people who advocate violence. Follow the true religion of Islam as per our prophet through the quantity and had it only. No mullahs and their rubbish

 

[Well.wisher]

this is apostasy,in this case islam calls for the death penalty
that is not possible so the next thing possible ie make their lives miserable will suffice

Why not teach them instead ?
You know Shariah is to be imposed when all sections of state agree with this.
Our coas commander , president , law , pm .. If they agree then you can impose Shariah .
You're obliged to obey 'ulil amr ' , the one in authority , it's ordered by quran. Hence , they ahmadis are not to be killed .

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

"I have been asked a disturbing question, as to who among the Muslims can be a member of the Muslim Conference. It has been asked with particular reference to the Qadianis. My reply is that, as far as the constitution of the All-India Muslim League is concerned, it stipulates that any Muslim, without distinction of creed or sect, can become a member, provided he accepts the views, policy and programme of the Muslim League, signs the form of membership and pays the subscription. I appeal to the Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir not to raise sectarian questions, but instead to unite on one platform under one banner. In this lies the welfare of the Muslims. In this way, not only can Muslims make political and social progress effectively, but so can other communities, and so also can the state of Kashmir as a whole. What right have I to declare a person non-Muslim, when he claims to be a Muslim’" - Muhammad Ali Jinnah, 23rd May, 1944, Srinagar



“Ahmadis are Muslims, If They Say They are Muslims and No One, Not Even the Sovereign Legislature, has the Right to Say Otherwise." - Muhammad Ali Jinnah, 05 May 1944.

I am either a Kafir foreign minister of an Islamic nation or an Muslim foreign minister of a Kafir nation…’ Zafarullah Khan.
Also the comments of Quaid about Qadyani's admission in AIML does not really have any religious meaning. Quaid e Azam was a seasoned politician, he knew that any such comment during freedom movement would seriously damage the cause.
PS I also seek references of these comments.

 

[Hrk19]

We in Pakistan do not understand islam or our beloved propher pbuh. They are emotional about the defence of the faith yet tge faith doesn't need defending. What Muslims need to learn is what the prophet taught us. To be tolerant. To learn listen understand and educate. To often we just want to kill and smash heads yet our prophet pbuh tore down the walls of the heart by his kindness and engagement. I say to you all humbly do what your prophet did with the kuffar. Do not follow the idiot mullahs and stupid people who advocate violence. Follow the true religion of Islam as per our prophet through the quantity and had it only. No mullahs and their rubbish

we are following it
we are defending against apostates known as ahmedis

 

[Flash_Ninja]

no,non muslims are another story,apostates should not under any circumstances be tolerated

Are you better than Allah??

Who gives you the right to say such things.

if someone leaves Islam, then they face divine punishment from Allah on judgement day. In the early days leaving islam meant treason against the state, since they were at war, and also this was a common policy across all empires/states at the time. This is not justified at all in the modern day.

Since you forgot the real message of Islam:

There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

— Quran 2:256


And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?

— Quran 10:99


Therefore do remind, for you are only a reminder. You are not a watcher over them;

— Quran 88:21-22

 

[hussain0216]

we are following it
we are defending against apostates known as ahmedis

We are the majority why should we not determine what or who we want in Pakistan

 

[Hrk19]

Why not teach them instead ?
You know Shariah is to be opposed when all sections of state agree with this.
Our coas commander , president , law , pm .. If they agree then you can impose Shariah .
You're obliged to obey 'ulil amr ' , the one in authority , it's ordered by quran. Hence , they ahmadis are not to be killed .

i know that
by making them miserable i mean that shun then everywhere
do not buy from them,do not employ them and do not sell to them and make no contact with them whatsoever

Are you better than Allah??

Who gives you the right to say such things.

if someone leaves Islam, then they face divine punishment from Allah on judgement day. In the early days leaving islam meant treason against the state, since they were at war, and also this was a common policy across all empires/states at the time. This is not justified at all in the modern day.

Since you forgot the real message of Islam:

There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

— Quran 2:256

all scholars agree that apostasy is punishable by death

 

[Indus Pakistan]

ahmedis are a minority in Pakistan they should be aware of the consequences of pissing off the majority

Your a minority in UK - do you preach the same there?


* @The Sandman Here is a interesting display of first class, premium cut hypocracy. In UK I see these very type the biggest fans of multi-culturaism and supporters of rights of minorities. Pity they don't extend that inside Pakistan. Then it is majority kicks b*utt.

 

[Hrk19]

We are the majority why should we not determine what or who we want in Pakistan

in normal life sure
but i mean online like here
if it is not stopped,it could lead good muslims astray

 

[M. Sarmad]

Would you like to post the complete ruling of SCP about definition of Muslim ?
.

(Report of the Court of Inquiry constituted under Punjab Act II OF 1954 to enquire into the Punjab Disturbances of 1953)

*Selections from the Munir Report (1954)*



7) The position of non-Muslims

..............
.............

This being the position, the State will have to devise some machinery by which the distinction between a Muslim and a non-Muslim may be determined and its consequences enforced. The question, therefore, whether a. person is or is not a Muslim will be of fundamental importance, and it was for this reason that we asked most of the leading ulama to give their definition of a Muslim, the point being that if the ulama of the various sects believed the Ahmadis to be kafirs, they must have been quite clear in their minds not only about the grounds of such belief but also about the definition of a Muslim, because the claim that a certain person or community is not within the pale of Islam implies on the part of the claimant an exact conception of what a Muslim is.

The result of this part of the inquiry, however, has been anything but satisfaotory, and if considerable confusion exists in the minds of our ulama on such a simple matter, one can easily imagine what the differences on more complicated matters will be. Below we reprodure the definition of a Muslim given by each alim in his own words. This definition was asked after it had been clearly explained to each witness that he was required to give the irreducible minimum conditions which a person must satisfy to be entitled to be called a Muslim, and that the definition was to be on the principle on which a term in grammar is defined. Here is the result: --

Maulana Abul Hasanat Muhammad Ahmad Qadri, President, Jami'at-ul-Ulama-i-Pakistan --

"Q.--What is the definition of a Muslim?
A.-- (1) He must believe in the Unity of God.
(2) He must believe in the prophet of Islam to be a true prophet, as well as in all other prophets who have preceded him.
(3) He must believe in the Holy Prophet of Islam as the last of the prophets (khatam-un-nabiyin).
(4) He must believe in the Qur'an as it was revealed by God to the Holy Prophet of Islam.
(5) He must believe as binding on him the injunctions of the Prophet of Islam.
(6) He must believe in the qiyamat.
Q.-- Is a tarik-us-salat [=one who doesn't perform the prayers] a Muslim?
A.-- Yes, but not a munkir-us-salat [=one who denies that prayers are a duty]."

Maulana Ahmad Ali, President, Jami'at-ul-Ulama-i-Islam, Maghribi Pakistan --

"Q.-- Please define a Muslim.
A.-- A person is a Muslim if he believes (1) in the Qur'an and (2) what has been said by the prophet. Any person who possesses these two qualifications is entitled to be called a Muslim, without his being required to believe in anything more or to do anything more."

Maulana Abul Ala Maudoodi, Amir, Jama'at-i-Islami --

"Q.-Please define a Muslim.
A.-- A person is a Muslim if he believes (1) in tauheed, (2) in all the prophets (ambiya), (3) all the books revealed by God, (4) in mala'ika (angels), and (5) yaum-ul-akhira (the Day of Judgment).
Q.-- Is a mere profession of belief in these articles sufficient to entitle a man to call himself a Musalman and to be treated as a Musalman in an Islamic State?
A.-- Yes.
Q.-- If a person says that he believes in all these things, does anyone have a right to question the existence of his belief?
A.-- The five requisites that I have mentioned above are fundamental, and any alteration in any one of these articles will take him out of the pale of Islam."

Ghazi Siraj-ud-Din Munir --

"Q.-- Please define a Muslim.
A.-- I consider a man to be a Muslim if he professes his belief in the kalima, namely, La Ilaha Illallah-o-Muhammad-ur-Rasulullah, and leads a life in the footsteps of the Holy Prophet."

Mufti Muhammad Idris, Jamia Ashrafia, Nila Gumhad, Lahore --

"Q.-- Please give the definition of a Musalman.
A.-- The word 'Musalman' is a Persian one. There is a distinction between the word 'Musalman' which is a Persian word for Muslim, and the word 'momin'. It is impossible for me to give a complete definition of the word 'momin'. I would require pages and pages to describe what a momin is. A person is a Muslim who professes to be obedient to Allah. He should believe in the Unity of God, prophethood of the ambiya, and in the Day of Judgment. A person who does not believe in the azan or in the qurbani goes outside the pale of Islam. Similarly, there are a large number of other things which have been received by tavatir from our prophet. In order to be a Muslim, he must believe in all these things. It is almost impossible for me to give a complete list of such things."

Hafiz Kifayat Hussain, Idara-i-Haquq-i-Tahaffuz-i-Shia --

"Q.-Who is a Musalman?
A.-- A person is entitled to be called a Musalman if he believes in (1) tauheed, (2) nubuwwat, and (3) qiyamat. These are the the fundamental beliefs which a person must profess to be called a Musalman. In regard to these three basic doctrines there is no difference between the Shias and the Sunnies. Besides the belief in these three doctrines, there are other things called 'zarooriyat-i-din' which a person must comply with in order to be entitled to be called a Musalman. These will take me two days to define and enumerate. But as an illustration I might state that the respect for the Holy Book, wajoob-i-nimaz, wajoob-i-roza, wajoob-i-hajj-ma'a-shariat, and other things too numerous to mention, are among the 'zarooriyat-i-din'."

Maulana Abdul Hamid Badayuni, President, Jami'at-ul-Ulama-i-Pakistan: --

"Q.-- Who is a Musalman, according to you?
A.-- A person who believes in the zarooriyat-i-din is called a momin, and every momin is entitled to be called a Musalman.
Q.-- What are these zarooriyat-i.din?
A.-- A person who believes in the five pillars of Islam and who believes in the rasalat of our Holy Prophet fulfils the zarooriyat-i-din.
Q.-- Have other actions, apart from the five arakan, anything to do with a man being a Muslim or being outside the pale of Islam?
(Note-- Witness has been explained [to] that by actions are meant those rules of moral conduct which in modern society are accepted as correct.)
A.-- Certainly.
Q.-- Then you will not call a person a Muslim who believes in arakan-i-khamsa and the rasalat of the prophet but who steals other peoples' things, embezzles property entrusted to him, has an evil eye on his neighbour's wife, and is guilty of the grossest ingratitude to his benefector?
A.-- Such a person, if he has the belief already indicated, will be a Muslim despite all this."

Maulana Muhammad Ali Kandhalvi, Darush-Shahabia, Sialkot --

"Q.--Please define a Musalman.
A.-- A person who in obedience to the commands of the prophet performs all the zarooriyat-i-din is a Musalman.
Q.-- Can you define zarooriyat-i-din?
A.-- Zarooriyat-i-din are those requirements which are known to every Muslim irrespective of his religious knowledge.
Q.-- Can you enumerate zarooriyat-i-din?
A.-- These are too numerous to be mentioned. I myself cannot enumerate these zarooriyat. Some of the zarooriyat-i-din may be mentioned, as salat, saum, etc."

Maulana Amin Ahsab Islahi -

"Q.-- Who is a Musalman?
A.-- There are two kinds of Musalmans, a political (siyasi) Musalman and a real (haqiqi) Musalman. In order to be called a political Musalman, a person must:
(1) believe in the Unity of God,
(2) believe in our Holy Prophet being khatam-un-nabiyin, i.e., 'final authority' in all matters relating to the life of that person,
(3) believe that all good and evil comes from Allah,
(4) believe in the Day of Judgment,
(5) believe in the Qur'an to be the last book revealed by Allah,
(6) perform the annual pilgrimage to Mecca,
(7) pay the zaka'at,
(8) say his prayers like the Musalmans,
(9) observe all apparent rules of Islami mu'ashira, and
(10) observe the fast (saum).
If a person satisfies all these conditions he is entitled to the rights of a full citizen of an Islamic State. If any one of these conditions is not satisfied, the person concerned will not be a political Musalman. (Again said It would be enough for a person to be a Musalman if he merely professes his belief in these ten matters irrespective of whether he puts them into practice or not. In order to be a real Musalman, a person must believe in and act on all the injunctions by Allah and his prophet in the manner in which they have been enjoined upon him.

Q.-- Will you say that only the real MusaIman is 'mard-i-saleh'?
A.--Yes.
Q.-- Do we understand you aright that in the case of what you have called a political (siyasi) Musalman, belief alone is necessary, while in the case of a haqiqi Musalman there must not only be belief but also action?
A.-- No, you have not understood me aright. Even in the case of a political (siyasi) Musalman action is necessary; but what I mean to say is that if a person does not act upon the belief that is necessary in the case of such a MusaIman, he will not be outside the pale of a political (siyasi) M:usalman.
Q.-- If a political (siyasi) Musalman does not believe in things which you have stated to be necessary, will you call such a person be-din?
A.-- No, I will call him merely be-amal."


The definition by the Sadr Anjuman Ahmadiya, Rabwah, in its written statement, is that a Muslim is a person who belongs to the ummat of the Holy Prophet and professes belief in kalima-i-tayyaba.

d.) Keeping in view the several definitions given by the ulama, need we make any comment except that no two learned divines are agreed on this fundamental? If we attempt our own definition, as each learned divine has done, and that definition differs from that given by all others, we unanimously go out of the fold of Islam. And if we adopt the definition given by any one of the ulama, we remain Muslims according to the view of that alim, but kafirs according to the definition of everyone else.


http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/txt_munirreport_1954/0707nonmuslims.html

 

[hussain0216]

Your a minority in UK - do you preach the same there?

Sure

thats whats going to happen

if your smart you will have a fall back position and invest in a growing Pakistan and your future

you dont want to go the German jew way

 

[Well.wisher]

This is a horrible viewpoint. who cares if they want to preach their religion, let them do so in peace.

if people in the west were openly saying the Quran is full of lies and such you wouldn't like it, likewise, you should be open minded and let these people do as they wish. Its a persons own choice if they decide to listen.

Sorry , I dont care about West but we've to protect religion islam in an islamic state .