Ahmadis in Pakistan

[apophenia]

Thanks for sharing. It is not only the comprehensive definition of Muslim ... but also comes from authority which is superior to any Parliament.

And Ahmedies come upto this definition of Muslim.

Regards!

Your understanding of the reference is so short-sighted, I wonder why the hell I am even debating with you. Another FYI for you, MGAQ has rejected hadiths which are treated authentic by the others.So you treat this hadith as literally then be prepared to accept all of them or none of them.

 

[khuramonline]

Don't get involved in that whole orthodox vs. unorthodox nonsense and it’s a waste of time and energy. Declaring them non moslims was a political move more than religious but the reservation raised theologically are vaild. Jammat was given a fair chance to prove their POV and Khalifatul Masih III shot his community down in flying colors. hating someone for their believes is religiously and morally wrong and every sane human will stand by the community if they are subjected to blind hatred. most Pakistanis’ don’t give **** about sects and believes. Just some FYI's in case you didn’t know

the NUZUL of Esa is not mentioned in Quran…. the traditions that related to the mahdi / mujadids are not in Sahih Bukhari or muslim…. Some of the biggest Anti Ahmadiyya Campaigners’ are ex Ahmadi and have nothing to do with Pakistan or Ordinnance XX .

I also only want to prove that declaring them non-Muslim was only a Political move.

It has no concern with Quran and Hadith. So please ppl here may call them non-Muslim ... But please then don't speak in the name of Islam.

Thankyou that you accept that it was a POLITICAL move.

Caliph-III lost ... because he was politically weak...!!!

We are making a shining history of Islamic Politics ...

 

[apophenia]

I also only want to prove that declaring them non-Muslim was only a Political move. ...

When will you stop with your wordplay? If you try to use couple of brain cells you can figure it out what I meant.

It has no concern with Quran and Hadith. So please ppl here may call them non-Muslim ... But please then don't speak in the name of Islam.

Thankyou that you accept that it was a POLITICAL move.

Caliph-III lost ... because he was politically weak...!!!

We are making a shining history of Islamic Politics ...

It does concern Koran and Hadith. Islam speaks for itself through em’ which doesn’t need any interpretations. Even from a neutral perspective, Ahmadiyya is not this dynamic, intellectual movement that they portray themselves to be. Caliph III lost because he couldn’t defend his believes not because he was politically weak.

 

[khuramonline]

When will you stop with your wordplay? If you try to use couple of brain cells you can figure it out what I meant.



It does concern Koran and Hadith. Islam speaks for itself through em’ which doesn’t need any interpretations. Even from a neutral perspective, Ahmadiyya is not this dynamic, intellectual movement that they portray themselves to be. Caliph III lost because he couldn’t defend his believes not because he was politically weak.

Actually you know well that you have lost this "game".

Islam speaks for itself through em’

O.... really!!!

I have already stated in this thread that Muslims are so proud that they think they themselves are God. And this is NO big thing. Enjoy your divinity. I have no objection.

But this god is NOT respectable because it cannot do JUSTICE...!!!

Regards!

 

[apophenia]

Actually you know well that you have lost this "game".

In UK, there is an expression footballing expression …Real football, not that American rubbish. Enough said.

O.... really!!!

I have already stated in this thread that Muslims are so proud that they think they themselves are God. And this is NO big thing. Enjoy your divinity. I have no objection.

But this god is NOT respectable because it cannot do JUSTICE...!!!

Regards!

I don’t indulge myself with spiritual orgasms. I have heard this absurd counter argument many times so that’s NO news for me. It doesn’t do anything other than killing intellectual development. If moslims are so keen on playing GOD and Jammat are so pious then so be it then, let them play their respective roles and let GOD decided who was what in the end. No need to cry no need to argue no need to debate. what’s the point of this discussion?

 

[khuramonline]

In UK, there is an expression footballing expression …Real football, not that American rubbish. Enough said.


I don’t indulge myself with spiritual orgasms. I have heard this absurd counter argument many times so that’s NO news for me. It doesn’t do anything other than killing intellectual development. If moslims are so keen on playing GOD and Jammat are so pious then so be it then, let them play their respective roles and let GOD decided who was what in the end. No need to cry no need to argue no need to debate. what’s the point of this discussion?

Yes ... let God decide it. In order that we let God decide it,,,,, we need to amend our constitution to withdraw our "national" declaration that they are non-Muslims. Because our nation interfered jurisdiction of God in this case.

 

[Awesome]

Actually it is the right of people to call Ahmedis what they want to which is being argued for here - including your right to call them non-Muslims and their or anyone's right to call them Muslims.

Calling them as something and they becoming that thing are two different things.

The state is enforcing them to declare themselves as non-Muslims - which is wrong. The future of Islam is more at stake by the squashing of freedoms

 

[apophenia]

You know the old saying about freedom of speech not extending to running into a movie theater and yelling "Fire"? or is it okay to run into a firehouse and yell "Movie"?

 

[khurasaan1]

Actually it is the right of people to call Ahmedis what they want to which is being argued for here - including your right to call them non-Muslims and their or anyone's right to call them Muslims.

Calling them as something and they becoming that thing are two different things.

The state is enforcing them to declare themselves as non-Muslims - which is wrong. The future of Islam is more at stake by the squashing of freedoms

The state is doing right if it enforce them to declare themselves as non _Muslims...cuz they are non Muslims period unless they declare Mirza Ghulam Qadyani as Kafir or Murtid and declare themselves that they do not believe in his false teachings . Then they are welcome most happily to be Muslims.

 

[khurasaan1]

To understand the main beliefs and teachings of Islam/Quran, literal meaning is enough. Refer the verse about no compulsion in religion. But apparently to understand qadianism, exemplification is essential to figure out complex metaphors. Without it, ghulamiyah cannot be rationalized.



Koran or sunnah is not literature to moslims. And orthodox school of thought only reject these terms when they are applied without any reference. Moslims don’t have problem with MGAQ claiming Ess or Mehdi because that’s pure literature and many have tried to fill in those shoes before MGAQ and after. The problems arises he tried to interpret something that is not present for 1300 years.


"Give up waiting for Mahdi- the personification of power. Go and create him." - Muhammad Iqbal

Mirza Ghulam Qadyaani was Kafir (Murtid) and his followers are Kafirs ..no question about it ..Unless they do Taubah..and revert back to siraate-i-mustaqeem...accept Islam .

 

[billi]

Mirza Ghulam Qadyaani was Kafir (Murtid) and his followers are Kafirs ..no question about it ..Unless they do Taubah..and revert back to siraate-i-mustaqeem...accept Islam .

no he is not kafir. He is a true prophet. Ahmadis are muslims just as sunnis are or shias are. they believe in allah . thats all the quran says.

 

[Comet]

Actually it is the right of people to call Ahmedis what they want to which is being argued for here - including your right to call them non-Muslims and their or anyone's right to call them Muslims.

Calling them as something and they becoming that thing are two different things.

The state is enforcing them to declare themselves as non-Muslims - which is wrong. The future of Islam is more at stake by the squashing of freedoms

Yes the real issue is that State is enforcing its writ on the people in case of religion too. It is a different debate altogether about whether state should have its say on religion or not.

I believe if state can enforce food regulation and traffic laws then state can also enforce Religion Definition. Its all about people and their will. If people have decided that their state should be Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the state can define religion then I think this is how it should be.

 

[apophenia]

no he is not kafir. He is a true prophet. Ahmadis are muslims just as sunnis are or shias are. they believe in allah . thats all the quran says.

certainly a profitprophet. one of its kind too.

 

[billi]

certainly a profitprophet. one of its kind too.

why do you abuse th eprophets of your own religion. as long as ahmedis believe in allah they are muslims. conversely they can also say that sunnis are not muslims because of the exact converse reason. so its a matter of interpretation.

 

[apophenia]

why do you abuse th eprophets of your own religion. as long as ahmedis believe in allah they are muslims. conversely they can also say that sunnis are not muslims because of the exact converse reason. so its a matter of interpretation.

believe in allah makes anyone Monotheist not moslim. and i dont believe in prophets neither i was disrespecting anyone.