Ahmadi children arrested on false charges in Pakistan, alleges Indian Ahmadiyya commu

[Meesna]

Again aren't you going by the same "hearsay" bias?

No, because named sources have talked to press and acknowledged lack of proof and pressure form fanatics.

 

[Awesome]

Tell it like it is Asim - Based on news reports this is outrageous bahviour by police and to tell it like it is, religious bigotry against Ahmadis is a fact of life, even Shi'ah are not safe from these bigots - for the defense of Islam and the beloved prophet, of course -- tomorrow we will be it's victims as well. And we would deserve it for being silent when it was our duty as Muslims to speak out against this behaviour. Not in our name, Yeh Hum Nahin!! Hargiz Nahim!!

I just don't want to jump on the bandwagon when there is little to suggest that the police have acted unlawfully. I don't like that particular law, but we need stop acting like revolutionary anarchists. The police's authority on the matter should be accepted more than the press's statements and any named sources.

If the police has acted inappropriately then let it be proven in courts.

Now I'm not discounting the corruption and the persecution that has taken place, but at times that is just another excuse to throw the procedures, policies and standards out the window in Pakistan and take up the gun.

Even if its true, what difference does it make? They are lawfully arrested now and they need to fight the case.

Anyway onto the more important issue...

America's black rights movements, women's rights movements had a lot of steam in them and it amounted to nothing till the laws were in fact changed. Till cases were won in the courts. If Ahmedis can't convince the law, the lawmakers, they won't have any luck with the other Pakistanis who are deeply set in their ways.

The allegations against them are some what weird. I've heard weird stories about ridiculous rituals, incest, and even enticing Muslims with their 'niceness'. So they are pretty much demonized in society, wrongfully I hope. They need to combat that, and prove to the rest of Pakistan they are nice people too. It sucks, since no one else has to do prove anything like that, but thats the way it is. No one will do it for them, they need to do it.

I work in a Pakistani company and my boss is an Ahmedi. Seems like a normal bloke to me and though he too acknowledges the fact that all is not well, but he doesn't paint a doom n gloom scenario either. After all he got to a nice managerial position despite being an Ahmedi.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

Here is the problem with the AB laws in Pakistan( amongst other things).
presence of intention in not necessary to establish guilt.
the offense is no-bailable as far as I can remember.
Good luck proving their innocence, vigilantes wont allow them
to be released by the courts.
You can not amend these laws to the benefit of minorities w/out
incurring wrath of J.I and others.
It seems mere allegation is sufficient to convict.
Most judges would be too scared to pronounce verdict of innocence.
I am sure the list is long but I ve not been in touch with the laws in a while.

I remember someone telling me about a hadith where the Last Prophets( s.a.w) said that Muslim rulers will be held accountable about their treatment of minorities.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Ahmadiyyas must leave Pakistan, they are a problem for us, they can commit shirk freely in Europe if they want

 

[Awesome]

Ahmadiyyas must leave Pakistan, they are a problem for us, they can commit shirk freely in Europe if they want

Actually people who think like that are against the foundations of Pakistan in which it was clearly stated that "You may goto your mosques, your temples or any other place of worship..."

Anyone can profess their faith as per the foundations, the makers of Pakistan. Also you're betraying the law, the constitution, and the very idea of Pakistan. The law has declared Ahmedis as non-Muslims but it doesn't declare them any less Pakistani than you or me.

It's that old saying "I may not agree with what the Ahmedis are saying, but I will fight till the very end for their right to say it".

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Actually people who think like that are against the foundations of Pakistan in which it was clearly stated that "You may goto your mosques, your temples or any other place of worship..."

Anyone can profess their faith as per the foundations, the makers of Pakistan. Also you're betraying the law, the constitution, and the very idea of Pakistan. The law has declared Ahmedis as non-Muslims but it doesn't declare them any less Pakistani than you or me.

It's that old saying "I may not agree with what the Ahmedis are saying, but I will fight till the very end for their right to say it".

All Ahmadis I got to know in my life, hate the Pakistani culture and Governments

 

[Awesome]

All Ahmadis I got to know in my life, hate the Pakistani culture and Governments

I work with one everyday in a Pakistani company. They may be critical of the part of our culture who creates stories of incest, their devil worshiping rituals, voodoo and all the usual witchunt stories people have been making against a persecuted community.

Theres only one thing wrong with them as per our Islam, they deny the finality of the Prophet Muhammad. For which they will be answerable to God. There's nothing in their faith that says they have to go against Muslim countries or go against Pakistan in particular. They are critical because lets face it, many of us Muslims are ready to kill them for saying that theres another Prophet after Muhammad (saw). People generally tend to be critical once you try to kill them, you know.

My experience has been that they are very moderate people and do not shove their views down others. They do not try to recruit you to their ways either. In fact our religion commands us to treat people of other faiths with kindness and violence and rejection are a means of self-defense not the only mode of action.

Remember before the Battle of Badr, the people of Madina were thinking what will they do since Islam did not allow violence and so they had no means to defend themselves when suddenly at that time, some verses came down allowing them to take arms which was a move in self-defense.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

I work with one everyday in a Pakistani company. They may be critical of the part of our culture who creates stories of incest, their devil worshiping rituals, voodoo and all the usual witchunt stories people have been making against a persecuted community.

Theres only one thing wrong with them as per our Islam, they deny the finality of the Prophet Muhammad. For which they will be answerable to God. There's nothing in their faith that says they have to go against Muslim countries or go against Pakistan in particular. They are critical because lets face it, many of us Muslims are ready to kill them for saying that theres another Prophet after Muhammad (saw). People generally tend to be critical once you try to kill them, you know.

My experience has been that they are very moderate people and do not shove their views down others. They do not try to recruit you to their ways either. In fact our religion commands us to treat people of other faiths with kindness and violence and rejection are a means of self-defense not the only mode of action.

Remember before the Battle of Badr, the people of Madina were thinking what will they do since Islam did not allow violence and so they had no means to defend themselves when suddenly at that time, some verses came down allowing them to take arms which was a move in self-defense.

Dear Sir,

I will now tell you something about the Ahmadiyya Organisation Deutschland:

They have blackmailed assylum seekers who converted to real Islam or another religion. They sent them threats and made their life to hell, besides they are taking many Pakistanis on the wrong way. There is a case against them going on.

 

[Awesome]

Dear Sir,

I will now tell you something about the Ahmadiyya Organisation Deutschland:

They have blackmailed assylum seekers who converted to real Islam or another religion. They sent them threats and made their life to hell, besides they are taking many Pakistanis on the wrong way. There is a case against them going on.

Well if the Muslim asylum seekers took asylum based on the fact that they are Ahmedis, and now they are not Ahmedis then the reason for their Asylum is over and they should go back right?

After all asylum should be used for what its for right not another way to get a visa?

If they are converting Pakistanis into Ahmedi Pakistanis then Muslim Pakistanis can convert some of their people back too right? After all there are so many of us and so little of them. Everyone should get an equal chance to profess and practice their faith, the one with the best faith wins. Or are you saying that our faith is not good enough to attract people on our side? Of course you're surely not saying that.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Well if the Muslim asylum seekers took asylum based on the fact that they are Ahmedis, and now they are not Ahmedis then the reason for their Asylum is over and they should go back right?

After all asylum should be used for what its for right not another way to get a visa?

If they are converting Pakistanis into Ahmedi Pakistanis then Muslim Pakistanis can convert some of their people back too right? After all there are so many of us and so little of them. Everyone should get an equal chance to profess and practice their faith, the one with the best faith wins. Or are you saying that our faith is not good enough to attract people on our side? Of course you're surely not saying that.

It wasn't based on the fact bcz they are ahmadis

 

[Meesna]

Theres only one thing wrong with them as per our Islam, they deny the finality of the Prophet Muhammad. For which they will be answerable to God.

There is a discussion on it here Why I do not accept Ahmadiyyat? - GupShup Forums you may like to see. They frequently discuss this topic over there and you may want to jump in from time to time if you are so inclined.

The issue here is not theological however but of human rights and rule of (fairly applied) law.

 

[Meesna]

Ahmadis held without any evidence of blasphemy: HRCP

Press Release, February 12, 2009

LAHORE: Five Ahmadis detained on charges of blasphemy in Layyah district have been held without virtually any proof or witnesses, the Human Rights Commission (HRCP) said on Thursday.

The commission, which had sent a fact-finding team to Layyah district last week, said its findings concluded that an investigation, mandated by law prior to the registration of a blasphemy case, was also not held.

The HRCP team learned that a prayer leader in the village had allowed Ahmadi students from a nearby tuition centre to offer prayers in his mosque. The students were later threatened by a government schoolteacher and never went to the mosque again. Around 10 days later, some villagers claimed finding blasphemous writings in the mosque's toilet.

In the First Information Report (FIR), the complainant said: "Since these Ahmadis are the only non-Muslims coming to the mosque, therefore they must have committed the offence." The 'argument' was heard time and again during the HRCP team's interviews with the mosque administration, some villagers and the local police.

The police and villagers conceded that there were no witnesses or evidence of the Ahmadis' involvement. The HRCP team found elements belonging to banned extremist organizations and a relative of the National Assembly member from the area had pressurised the police to register a case. "It is clear that a local politician has also used his influence" to book the Ahmadis, the commission's report said.

HRCP said the complainant and his extremist supporters are adamant that the Ahmadis should be punished on the basis of presumption.

HRCP has demanded a prompt and transparent investigation into the matter to ensure that innocent people are not victimised. It has also demanded the government must ensure that the Ahmadiyya community in the village is not harassed or ostracized. The Commission has also asked the government to take prompt measures to rule out misuse of the blasphemy law.

The detailed fact-finding report can be accessed at the HRCP website: Human Rights Commission of Pakistan

FACT-FINDING REPORT: Filing of blasphemy charges against 5 Ahmadis in Layyah district

Asma Jahangir
Chairperson

Human Rights Commission of Pakistan - Print Friendly Version - Ahmadis held without any evidence of blasphemy: HRCP

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Human Rights Commission of Pakistan - Print Friendly Version - Ahmadis held without any evidence of blasphemy: HRCP

Propaganda

 

[Meesna]

FACT-FINDING REPORT

Filing of blasphemy charges against 5 Ahmadis in Layyah district

...

Qari Muhammad Saeed, prayer leader of Gulzar-e-Madina mosque

The HRCP team subsequently proceeded to the village 172/TDA. As the team talked to Qari Saeed outside the Gulzar-e-Madina mosque, a crowd of over 100 villagers assembled there. Qari Saeed told the HRCP team that some of the villagers using the toilets had previously written obscenities there, at times also abusing the villagers by name. He said he had had the writings erased a number of times. He said that Ahmadi students from Superior Academy had offered their prayers in the mosque for some days, and that the academy's principal also knew that. When the Ahmadi students were stopped from offering their prayers in the mosque, they never went there again. He said that he did not know the fifth accused, Mubashir Ahmad, and had never seen him in the mosque. He added that nobody knows who wrote the name of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) on the toilet walls but the police had not asked him any questions as Shahbaz Qasim had advised him to remain absent from the mosque when the police came to inspect the site. While interviewing Qari Saeed, the team saw a banner at the mosque's entrance announcing a Khatam-e-Nabuwat (finality of prophethood) Conference to be held in the mosque on 9th February, 2009. Qari Saeed said he did not know anything about the conference and outsiders had put up the banner without the knowledge or permission of the mosque committee. Qari Saeed added that on January 27, 2009, Shahbaz Qasim had forced him to join a press conference on the village road at 11:00pm to mobilize the people from the locality for the registration of a case against members of the Ahmadiyya community.

...

Concluding observations:

1. The four Ahmadi students did visit the Gulzar-e-Madina mosque to offer prayers for some days but only after they were advised to do so by their teacher.

2. The four students never visited the mosque again after a government school teacher stopped them from going there.

3. No evidence is available against the accused, who were arrested after the case was registered. The police and the villagers concede that there is no witness or evidence of the Ahmadis' involvement in the alleged blasphemy.

4. Prior to the arrest of the accused, no investigation was carried out by the SP investigation, as required by the law.

5. A press conference at late at night on January 27th by the complainant and his supporters, belonging to banned religious organizations, shows that undue influence was exerted by religious and political elements to pressure the police into registering a case.

6. Almost all the extremists urging action against the Ahmadis are not natives of the village.

7. The principal of a tuition centre changed his version about the Ahmadi students' innocence after the registration of the FIR, apparently to protect his business as he continues to use the academy premises, owned by members of the Ahmadiyya community, without paying rent.

8. The complainant and his extremist supporters are adamant that the Ahmadis should be punished on the basis of presumption.

9. It is clear a local politician has also used his influence.

Human Rights Commission of Pakistan

 

[Meesna]

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