Ahlul Hadith (Salafi) cleric register Blasphemy case against Engineer Mirza !

[El Sidd]

Religious discussions are not allowed on the forum.

No one reads the rules here.

 

[Goritoes]

I have heard worse in Majalis, some people won't change because their orders comes from Tehran and Riyyad. As for criticizing the companions over their own differences is stupid, because they lived as brothers and died, in the end they don't pass on the God with Bugz in their hearts, but people today holds a lot more trash.

If govt wants to end the molvi feuds .... Govt should abolish the blasphemy law ... this is another gift from Diesel's father Mufti Mehammod who was Anti Pakistan / Anti creation of Pakistan.

I am not a supporter of Blasphemy laws, but if removed completely Shia will be using Ma behn ki Galiyan against Sahabah more openly.

 

[Zhukov]

Chalo g. Inki Apni Alag hi dunia hai. Air us Dunia ke Apne hi Problems hain .
70s aur 80s ke molvi pata nai kab Intiqaal farmaen gey aur hamara is non sense se chutkara ho ga.
New generation Molanas shayad kuch ache nikal aen. Inse to koi lher ki umeed nai.

 

[StormBreaker]

Before I say anything ........... I am not salafi, sunni, shia, deobandi, barelvi or whatever new shop is there in the town.

But your statement is not only wrong, the actual problem is it is based on the fake lies that have been propagated over centuries and taught to all Muslim kids.

No civil war between the companions ever occurred, if you believe in that you are contradicting Quran.

Even the name Muawiyah isn't true but a constructed one, no companion of Messenger can have a name that means “one who howls”", specially someone who was trusted with writing down Quran's verses by Messenger Peace be upon himself, this is in not in accordance with what Quran orders / advises Muslims about names.

Last thing nothing would be asked of you about people before you and people after you (Quran).

I would strongly suggest to do a proper research and find the actual truth about companions of Messenger Peace be upon him, the one in books of traditions and so called history written after centuries is not only full of lies, contradictory but is also against Quran.

I am always open to new information but your claims are really on an another level.


Any evidence to back all that up ? I wish what you said were true

Islamic history is being distorted, people in the 21st century twist everything to fit their mindset. Hazrat Ameer Muawiya Ra did have difference of opinions with Hazrat Ali Ra and this is why they ruled from Syria whilst Hazrat Ali Ra ruled from Iraq. When Hazrat Ali Ra passed away, his son Imam Hassan Ra gave the power of Khilafat to Hazrat Ameer Muawiya so according to the Sunni Muslims discussions on that part of history is over, when the Son of Hazrat Ali Ra finished the disagreement then we are noone to point fingers. Many other battles took place between the companions but we all know fitna people caused disputes between them, spread lies etc to make them fight, this is why its better to leave the disagreements between the blessed companions.

People like Engineer Mirza exploit disagreements and with a bit of massala try to create their own group/sect. He does make good points but then makes blunders, on YouTube we have plenty of molvis who follow this mindset, they pick and choose from all groups.

Hazrat Hassan RA was an example of a genius and peace loving person just like his father and Nana SA.

When I read the whole saga, My respect for him increased more than most Sahabas.

 

[Corruptistan]

I have heard worse in Majalis, some people won't change because their orders comes from Tehran and Riyyad. As for criticizing the companions over their own differences is stupid, because they lived as brothers and died, in the end they don't pass on the God with Bugz in their hearts, but people today holds a lot more trash.


I am not a supporter of Blasphemy laws, but if removed completely Shia will be using Ma behn ki Galiyan against Sahabah more openly.

I grew up in KSA. I never heard insults aimed at any historical Muslim figure. Why would Arabs even insult their own historical Islamic figures? Where does this assumption even come from? This kind of behavior is the domain of certain followers of certain sects.

 

[StormBreaker]

Thank you, why would he mint a coin that

"........shows the crowned bust of Sasanian king Khosrau II with Pahlavi inscription within the double ring and Arabic legend ‘Bismillah’ followed by four pellets in outer margin."

"The reverse of the coin depicts Fire altar with attendants; star and crescent flanking flames and Pahlavi legend all within triple ring and star in crescents flanking in outer margin."

I am not denying that the person didn't exist, my contention is that these historic accounts are full of lies and made up stories, just to divide Muslims and keep them away from their actual real purpose.

Even Sultan Muhammad Shah [may ALLAH bless his soul] (Agha Khan) said this in one of his lectures / speeches

"It may be said such noble characters also abound in the histories of Greece and of Rome; what need for the study of the history of Arabs? Yes, Englishmen and Frenchmen, the direct successors of Romans, they can and do feel that the glorious characters of Roman history belong to them in a very real sense. Not so for the Muslim youth of this country. For most of us, even the noblest of them remain to the end but distant figures without any direct attraction. Yet Muslim history is so full of heroic characters or men, who lived and moved very much as the Muslims of today in their home life do, that contact with them could not but ennoble. Muavia and Walid are as statesmen not eclipsed either by Caesar or Augustus; and where can you find in the annals of any dynasty, whether European or Asiatic, a more saintly sovereign than Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz or a more exemplary Emperor than Hisham Ibn Abdul Malik? Direct contact with such great characters could not but strengthen the character of our youth and thus the character of our people. We may have crowds and battalions of graduates - it does not follow that they will be self-sacrificing men who will remove those degenerating customs that keep us not merely amongst the backward, but amongst the fallen."

@Mentee the above quoted paragraph is also for your information and consideration.

If we follow and believe this so called history then per this history Hazrat Ali's rein was the one where no expansion happened, Islam's message remained stagnant and Muslims got divided ............ now do I believe this, no I cannot and I will not.

Am I wrong in asking to revisit Islamic history and for the sake of unity and better understanding of Islam correct all the fallacies and lies?

It’s nice to see post Islam Era conspiracies.

I have been heavily digging into the ancient times (1-10000BC) and the amount of info I discovered that contradicts many ahadiths when it comes to Timelines and Ancient personalities, I really got a bad time thinking that all the things we have been fed with since childhood can be questionable as well factually.

Only Quran (Alhamdulillah, The Word Of God) remains unchallenged and Perfect in my eye.

Now I take some Ahadith with a pinch of salt, Definitely not ignoring them rather I still follow when it comes to the topics of ethics, Morals, Deeds, Do’s and Dont’s but when it comes to stories of previous prophets or Other stories, I have found them to be a bit mixed up or made up.

 

[Goritoes]

I grew up in KSA. I never heard insults aimed at any historical Muslim figure. Why would Arabs even insult their own historical Islamic figures? Where does this assumption even come from? This kind of behavior is the domain of certain followers of certain sects.

I know Sunni's don't, Shia's do... but my point was that we have many Pakistani Mullah's who take orders from KSA to brain wash people. I am against anyone who is not loyal to Pakistan but to Riyyad or Tehran.

It’s nice to see post Islam Era conspiracies.

I have been heavily digging into the ancient times (1-10000BC) and the amount of info I discovered that contradicts many ahadiths when it comes to Timelines and Ancient personalities, I really got a bad time thinking that all the things we have been fed with since childhood can be questionable as well factually.

Only Quran (Alhamdulillah, The Word Of God) remains unchallenged and Perfect in my eye.

Now I take some Ahadith with a pinch of salt, Definitely not ignoring them rather I still follow when it comes to the topics of ethics, Morals, Deeds, Do’s and Dont’s but when it comes to stories of previous prophets or Other stories, I have found them to be a bit mixed up or made up.

Without Hadith you won't have half of Islam. I hope you are not mixing Sahih Hadith with the ones with weak chains and narrations, You should look into Hadith Science and its regulations, you would be surprised.

 

[Corruptistan]

I know Sunni's don't, Shia's do... but my point was that we have many Pakistani Mullah's who take orders from KSA to brain wash people. I am against anyone who is not loyal to Pakistan but to Riyyad or Tehran.

Not sure about that claim. For instance which influential Mullah’s in Pakistan are ”dictated” by KSA? Why do Sunnis and Shias in KSA live peacefully together while there are (albeit luckily less nowadays) secterian tension in certain areas of Pakistan?

What we tend to blame foreigners for is 99.99% of the time our own undoing much like the sorry state of Pakistan overall is our own fault.

Take the recent opposition by our “scholars” to the polio vaccine. There is so much more.

 

[StormBreaker]

I know Sunni's don't, Shia's do... but my point was that we have many Pakistani Mullah's who take orders from KSA to brain wash people. I am against anyone who is not loyal to Pakistan but to Riyyad or Tehran.


Without Hadith you won't have half of Islam. I hope you are not mixing Sahih Hadith with the ones with weak chains and narrations, You should look into Hadith Science and its regulations, you would be surprised.

I am not rejecting Ahadith, I have clarified that in my post earlier.

Rather the part where the stories of Previous Prophets or Timelines or even future events such as Yajoj Majoj/Dajjal as many things have been proven different.

Keeping such fragements of Ahadith would only bring shame to Islam when some Historian start bashing with proof.

For example, I am really skeptical over the part of Adam’s Paradise.

I think we won’t have any clear answer to that in any way no matter how much you dig so better to leave all such research.

Not sure about that claim. For instance which influential Mullah’s in Pakistan are ”dictated” by KSA? Why do Sunnis and Shias in KSA live peacefully together while there are (albeit luckily less nowadays) secterian tension in certain areas of Pakistan?

What we tend to blame foreigners for is 99.99% of the time our own undoing much like the sorry state of Pakistan overall is our own fault.

Take the recent opposition by our “scholars” to the polio vaccine. There is so much more.

My fam is filled with Muftis so I do get such talks every now and then regarding Ahadith science but that doesn’t disprove the fact that Ahadith were documented after 250 years, it took just 40-80 Years for Bible to get corrupted and another 50 years for it to be formally corrupted by a council.

No matter how sahih the hadith is, Even they get written off every now and then.

 

[Corruptistan]

BTW the topic of this thread is exactly a great example of domestic Pakistani nonsense.

As if there were not 1 billion more important matters to focus on in Pakistan.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Thank you, why would he mint a coin that

"........shows the crowned bust of Sasanian king Khosrau II with Pahlavi inscription within the double ring and Arabic legend ‘Bismillah’ followed by four pellets in outer margin."

"The reverse of the coin depicts Fire altar with attendants; star and crescent flanking flames and Pahlavi legend all within triple ring and star in crescents flanking in outer margin."

I am not denying that the person didn't exist, my contention is that these historic accounts are full of lies and made up stories, just to divide Muslims and keep them away from their actual real purpose.

Well, the Muslims/Arabs didn't start striking their own new coins until 77 AH/697 CE (Mu'awiya I died in 680 ). Until then they continued to use the Sassanid and Byzantine monetary systems in the newly conquered lands with minor additions to the then existing coins, like short phrases in Arabic and Hijra dates. So, can't really blame Mu'awiya I for using coins with Khosrau images. Even the Rashidun Caliphs used Sassanid coins but they only added Arabic text "Bismillah" or "lillah" to the Sassanid coins and not their own names. Mu'awiya I was the first one to add his name to the coins.

Several coins, documents, and monumental inscriptions from Mu'awiya's reign exist but none of them mentions the name of Muhammad. The earliest mention of the name "Muhammad" occurs in 66 AH coin issued by Abdullah Ibn Zubair's (a Mecca based rival caliphate of the Umayyads) governor in Bishapur. Umayyads only started mentioning Muhammad's name on official documents/coins after that (probably driven by political considerations)

The 664 AD Maronite chronicle (that mentions first Civil War between Ali and Mu'awiya I also) makes the following interesting observation about Mu'awiya I:

"...King Mu'awiya placed his throne in Damascus and refused to go to Muhammad's throne."

Then came Yazid, son of Mu'awiya. The coins issued by Yazid in 61 AH, unlike the ones issued by his father, do not mention Allah's name, nor do they mention Hijrah date. They only name Yazid, and the date as first year of Yazid. Yazidi coins, just like him, have no indication of "Islamic" character.

Archaeology is more objective, more reliable than textual history/scholarship. But Early Islamic Archaeology remains a vastly unexplored field for various reasons

 

[karachidude86]

What utter BS.
Anything after the prophet is questionable.
anyone after the prophet is questionable.

Hadees, is just a narrative of history;
it doesn't mean it is correct irrespective who wrote it; it is prone to error.

these molvis have nothing better to do, and thus invent such arguments base don flawed history.

Stupid ignorant arrogant secular psuedo Muslim. You are too tiny and lowly to study the subject of the Ahadees e Mabaraka unless you decide to.
Sahih Ahadees preservation is the most precise and rigorous science in the history of Mankind.
Please move along son.

 

[karachidude86]

First of all Engineer Ali isn't deobandi

Secondly Hazart Ameer Muawiyah R.A rebelled against the Khalifa of Time Hazrat Ali R.A and he was also responsible for putting and end to Rashidun Khilafat.

He was driectly responsible for 1st Civil war and indirectly responsible for 2nd civil war.

Engineer Ali just revealed the Truth to public which these molvis have been hiding in defence of Banu Ummyah.

There's no blasphemy in this
Hazart Amaeer Muawiyah R.A was a Companion of prophet PBUH and reporter of Ahadees as well participated in wars for which he will always be respected.

But highlighting their wrongdoings isn't blasphemy.

These certain mullahs have been playing kafir kafir and gustakh should stop this madness

Not only Muawiya RA but also Amma Aisha RA and thousands of other companian rebelled on the differece of opinion on the matter of the aftermath of the Martyrdom of Hazrat e Usman RA.
They were wrong in their opinion and Hazrat e Ali RA was Correct.
Please don't trivialise this very complex matter.
Both the CAMPS were on Haq in accordance to the wisdom they possesed.

 

[Areesh]

Hazrat Hassan RA was an example of a genius and peace loving person just like his father and Nana SA.

When I read the whole saga, My respect for him increased more than most Sahabas.

Hazrat Hasan (RZ) did what was prophesied by Holy Prophet (SAW) many years ago

Narrated Abu Bakra:

I heard the Prophet (ﷺ) talking at the pulpit while Al-Hasan was sitting beside him, and he (i.e. the Prophet ) was once looking at the people and at another time Al-Hasan, and saying, "This son of mine is a Saiyid (i.e. chief) and perhaps Allah will bring about an agreement between two sects of the Muslims through him."

Sahih al-Bukhari 3746

 

[Sinnerman108]

Stupid ignorant arrogant secular psuedo Muslim. You are too tiny and lowly to study the subject of the Ahadees e Mabaraka unless you decide to.
Sahih Ahadees preservation is the most precise and rigorous science in the history of Mankind.
Please move along son.

karachi dude, calls me son.
that is a first,

but do tell me, in all detail possible, exactly how does your most precise and rigorous science works.

Educate me,
and do use a time line, from the prophet's death, to when was the first book compiled.
then we will talk about the process.
and lastly, we will talk about reasoning.