Ah memories! :D

[RazPaK]

Personally I wouldn't have told you about the election result - I wouldn't have told you there was an election in the first place. It's never our intent to hurt people's sentiments, but since clearly you have raised the issue and are seeking an explanation, I can comment upon my own actions, where I did not vote - as per rules of the TT, however I did debate strongly against your inclusion.

My primary reasoning has always been a severe lack of trust that you would have Pakistan's best interest. You have the capability to help Pakistan, no doubt, but there is a lack of demonstration on your intent to help Pakistan. Its not your critique of any of the institutions that perpetuates this - heck I have strongly spoken out against our leaders (military and civilian).

There are many other bigger critiques of Pakistan than you. Let's take Mastan - there has never been a doubt about him and his allegiance to Pakistan.

Flip through all the big issues that Pakistan has faced in recent months, any intelligent observer would observe some key red flags you raise. Your positions have always been against whatever Pakistan has been struggling for.

At times you've argued - "Koi fada nahi, just give in" type arguments.
At times you've argued - "It's wrong, but America did it so its fine"

Most of the times the tune is the same. Not on a single issue have you been with Pakistan.

Shikway ka koi base bhi hona chahiye. We all NRP have done some sort of betrayal with Pak by leaving it. Deep down I think 99% of us somehow always try to undo the wrongs we have done to Pak. But we have never given the impression ke hum Pakistan ko dillon se chorh chukay hain.

Even when Iqbal argued with Allah, he reminded Allah about the deep passion for loyalty Muslims still keep buried in their hearts.

Tujhko chora ke rasool-e-arabi ko chora
Buth gari pesha kiya, buth shikani ko chora

Ishq ko ishq ki aashufta-sari ko chora
Rasm-e-salman-o-owais-e-qarani ko chora

Aag takbeer ki seenon mein dabi rakhte hain
Zindagi misl-e-bilal-e-habshi rakhte hain

That's what you get when you respect a player of devil's advocate.

What is Vcheng's mission statement? Ever care to ask, or just intuitively tried to guess?

 

[Elmo]

Absolutely Asim - if someone is critical of Pakistan, you question their allegiance. If someone just twiddles their thumbs and does nothing for Pakistan, well then their allegiances are not questioned because they dont even know how to use their mouth or for that matter brain of theirs

That was wrong on many levels - nobody on this board should have their allegiance or patriotism questioned. Period.

But you can do as you please since we are a democracy right?

I think VCheng is as Pakistani as it can get.

Mastan Khan and VCheng - you guys are way better than the TT combined ever.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

as always, well spoken Asim bhai.

nice to see that some people here think clear-headed.

 

[RazPaK]

What have Pakistanis on this thread done for Pakistan, other than chughli?

I can vouch that with 7000 dollars I brought to Pakistan, I installed a water pump in a surrounding village of mine that had almost no access to water. You guys can run your forum and act high and mighty, but even the miniscule contribution I made was better than the hours you spent on this forum gaining self-esteem points by highlighting your intellectual prowess. I direct this at members as well as MODS.

 

[Awesome]

Absolutely Asim - if someone is critical of Pakistan, you question their allegiance. If someone just twiddles their thumbs and does nothing for Pakistan, well then their allegiances are not questioned because they dont even know how to use their mouth or for that matter brain of theirs

That was wrong on many levels - nobody on this board should have their allegiance or patriotism questioned. Period.

But you can do as you please since we are a democracy right?

I think VCheng is as Pakistani as it can get.

Mastan Khan and VCheng - you guys are way better than the TT combined ever.

Obviously VCheng opened the door for it, by asking for my/our opinion. Recreating this thread over and over. Obviously he seems to be telling us that he can take it, so chill out.

Oh and I don't claim to be speaking for the board, Pakistan, the TT or anyone else. So let that be a disclaimer that these were my arguments and mine alone in the election thread. Technically it was a mistake to tell VCheng about his election and its result, that may have hurt his sentiments. My intent here is to offer some sort of closure for him, not engage in ridicule of his person. These are my opinions, if you or he thinks I'm wrong and I may be, then you have to do the simplest of all things - ignore my post.

 

[Elmo]

as always, well spoken Asim bhai.

nice to see that some people here think clear-headed.

There you go Asim - you got AZ's vote of confidence. I guess you should all keep that coming - pats on the back, praises, applause.



Since I am more scientifically inclined, Ill quote Albert Einstein here: "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary."

 

[Awesome]

What have Pakistanis on this thread done for Pakistan, other than chughli?

I can vouch that with 7000 dollars I brought to Pakistan, I installed a water pump in a surrounding village of mine that had almost no access to water. You guys can run your forum and act high and mighty, but even the miniscule contribution I made was better than the hours you spent on this forum gaining self-esteem points by highlighting your intellectual prowess. I direct this at members as well as MODS.

You want me to start naming things? You're less than a year old, we've done things, recounting them would be inappropriate.

 

[Don Jaguar]

Personally I wouldn't have told you about the election result - I wouldn't have told you there was an election in the first place. It's never our intent to hurt people's sentiments, but since clearly you have raised the issue and are seeking an explanation, I can comment upon my own actions, where I did not vote - as per rules of the TT, however I did debate strongly against your inclusion.

My primary reasoning has always been a severe lack of trust that you would have Pakistan's best interest. You have the capability to help Pakistan, no doubt, but there is a lack of demonstration on your intent to help Pakistan. Its not your critique of any of the institutions that perpetuates this - heck I have strongly spoken out against our leaders (military and civilian).

There are many other bigger critiques of Pakistan than you. Let's take Mastan - there has never been a doubt about him and his allegiance to Pakistan.

Flip through all the big issues that Pakistan has faced in recent months, any intelligent observer would observe some key red flags you raise. Your positions have always been against whatever Pakistan has been struggling for.

At times you've argued - "Koi fada nahi, just give in" type arguments.
At times you've argued - "It's wrong, but America did it so its fine"

Most of the times the tune is the same. Not on a single issue have you been with Pakistan.

Shikway ka koi base bhi hona chahiye. We all NRP have done some sort of betrayal with Pak by leaving it. Deep down I think 99% of us somehow always try to undo the wrongs we have done to Pak. But we have never given the impression ke hum Pakistan ko dillon se chorh chukay hain.

Even when Iqbal argued with Allah, he reminded Allah about the deep passion for loyalty Muslims still keep buried in their hearts.

Tujhko chora ke rasool-e-arabi ko chora
Buth gari pesha kiya, buth shikani ko chora

Ishq ko ishq ki aashufta-sari ko chora
Rasm-e-salman-o-owais-e-qarani ko chora

Aag takbeer ki seenon mein dabi rakhte hain
Zindagi misl-e-bilal-e-habshi rakhte hain

Well said bro.

 

[RazPaK]

You want me to start naming things? You're less than a year old, we've done things, recounting them would be inappropriate.

Redirect me to a thread where Pakistanis have made contributions to their country if you can. I've been reading your posts since 2009 Asim.

 

[Elmo]

What have Pakistanis on this thread done for Pakistan, other than chughli?

I can vouch that with 7000 dollars I brought to Pakistan, I installed a water pump in a surrounding village of mine that had almost no access to water. You guys can run your forum and act high and mighty, but even the miniscule contribution I made was better than the hours you spent on this forum gaining self-esteem points by highlighting your intellectual prowess. I direct this at members as well as MODS.

I completely agree with you. Hence, from the little I know, I know that VCheng has done more for this country than most on this board - even then no one should question his intents.

On this forum, everyone has to carry their achievements as badges on their shoulders and chest - i want that to end.

Obviously VCheng opened the door for it, by asking for my/our opinion. Recreating this thread over and over. Obviously he seems to be telling us that he can take it, so chill out.

Oh and I don't claim to be speaking for the board, Pakistan, the TT or anyone else. So let that be a disclaimer that these were my arguments and mine alone in the election thread. Technically it was a mistake to tell VCheng about his election and its result, that may have hurt his sentiments. My intent here is to offer some sort of closure for him, not engage in ridicule of his person. These are my opinions, if you or he thinks I'm wrong and I may be, then you have to do the simplest of all things - ignore my post.

How about you first reprimand the person who was rude enough to leak that out. Not all rules need to be written, some are unspoken yet understood as well. Now we have to teach TT members how to act like responsible adults? Makes your re-think what sort of members are part of the TT.

Thank you clarifying that that is how you view VCheng in your personal capacity. But even then it is flawed.

 

[Awesome]

Redirect me to a thread where Pakistanis have made contributions to their country if you can. I've been reading your posts since 2009 Asim.

As an example, Look up what was going on in here around 2009. Otherwise I'll point you towards something in PM later.

 

[Don Jaguar]

I completely agree with you. Hence, from the little I know, I know that VCheng has done more for this country than most on this board - even then no one should question his intents.

Can you please explain how?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

so much for locking the thread

 

[RazPaK]

I completely agree with you. Hence, from the little I know, I know that VCheng has done more for this country than most on this board - even then no one should question his intents.

On this forum, everyone has to carry their achievements as badges on their shoulders and chest - i want that to end.

I appreciate your support, but I agree with Asim. Personally I think Vcheng is not qualified for TT title, like a lot of the TT's on this forum. I recently debated with him, which I never would have, and he gave me nothing other than replies that dodged the issue. I think the TT title should stop being handed out like a biscuit, rather than being earned with posts of high caliber. A lot of Vcheng's posts are not relevant to the situation of Pakistan, but rather idealism on his part. Anyways I have nothing against him.

 

[Elmo]

Can you please explain how?

Who the hell are you to even ask that question?

Hasn't anyone taught you any manners ever?

Don't you know how to carry yourself in the real world?

That was rude.

Nobody on this board is under any compulsion to put their personal lives for public debate.

Learn to mind your own business. It's his posts that should matter to you. Not him.